Let'm die!

[twomany]

Question.

Are the Covid "vacdines" the first of a type that only lessens the severity of the disease?

My awareness of vaccines I have gotten previously has always been an absolute stop to infection. i.e. the developed antibodies get on the case right away and put a stop to it.

Except for the flue shot which has always been shown to be much like a dart at a board. It works if you don't get the flu this season... Try again next year.

 

[mcmxi]

Question.

Are the Covid "vacdines" the first of a type that only lessens the severity of the disease?

My awareness of vaccines I have gotten previously has always been an absolute stop to infection. i.e. the developed antibodies get on the case right away and put a stop to it.

Except for the flue shot which has always been shown to be much like a dart at a board. It works if you don't get the flu this season... Try again next year.

This is one of the common misconceptions about the COVID vaccines. They don't make you immune, just increase the chance that your body will recognize what it is faster than if you didn't have the vaccine. A faster immune system response can greatly reduce the severity of any symptoms. The problem with the SARS-CoV-2 virus is that it's evolving and is better able to disguise itself such that the immune system doesn't recognize it and respond soon enough, even if you've been vaccinated.

There was a very good article in Nature recently.

How the coronavirus infects cells — and why Delta is so dangerous (nature.com)

 

[jimh406]

No, absolutely not. The point is that like a flu shot, if you do contract the virus, with a vaccination, you are likely to get less sick...simple as that.

You should let the public health officials and the politicians who are saying the opposite know. They say things like we only have a nonvaccinated pandemic, and other things similar.

 

[jimh406]

It is interesting to see people thinking in such different ways. … And it seems there are more than two sides here.

To have any chance to understand the other ideas, you have to hear the other ideas. There has been a lot of misinformation from all of the viewpoints.

The best way to find out the truth is put all of the information out there and have the discussion. Of course, that’s not happening on social media sites and most forums.

As many of us have said, let people be educated on what they are trading off by getting the vaccine or not getting the vaccine. People can take the truth, but trying force people who are only simply asking questions isn’t convincing anyone of anything. Well, it’s convincing that politicians, social media sites, websites, and public heath officials aren’t interested in letting people make a health decision with “all” of the information.

That’s pretty scary, and for many people is more scary than Covid.

 

[ranger danger]

You should let the public health officials and the politicians who are saying the opposite know. They say things like we only have a nonvaccinated pandemic, and other things similar.

NO!!! DONT!!!! They would arrest you for sedition and you would disappear and never be heard from again.

 

[twomany]

This is one of the common misconceptions about the COVID vaccines. They don't make you immune, just increase the chance that your body will recognize what it is faster than if you didn't have the vaccine. A faster immune system response can greatly reduce the severity of any symptoms. The problem with the SARS-CoV-2 virus is that it's evolving and is better able to disguise itself such that the immune system doesn't recognize it and respond soon enough, even if you've been vaccinated.

There was a very good article in Nature recently.

How the coronavirus infects cells — and why Delta is so dangerous (nature.com)

So the vaccine is not a vaccine, only an injectable therapeutic.

It's making Ivermectin look like a great option.

 

[Njtool]

Hey hey. We can’t talk about anything that won’t make big pharma money. Ivermectin is too common of a drug and there is no money in it.

 

[Henro]

You should let the public health officials and the politicians who are saying the opposite know. They say things like we only have a nonvaccinated pandemic, and other things similar.

Actually they are not saying the opposite…no need for me to tell them anything.

It has been reported that something like 97 percent of current hospitalizations are unvaccinated people. And that around 99 percent of the deaths are unvaccinated.

If one believes the reports it sure looks like the unvaccinated are where the pandemic is currently focused.

Of course if one believes the reports are fabrications and lies, he will come to a different conclusion…

 

[mcmxi]

So the vaccine is not a vaccine, only an injectable therapeutic.

That depends on which definition of a vaccine you want to use. I don't think what we have now qualifies as a vaccine by the CDC's definition.

The CDC’s specific definition says vaccines are “a product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections, but can also be administered by mouth or sprayed into the nose.”


But it does qualify by typical dictionary definitions.

1: a preparation that is administered (as by injection) to stimulate the body's immune response against a specific infectious agent or disease:

And according to Dr. Daniel Salmon, who is trained in vaccinology and is a professor at the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health it qualifies:

Dr. Daniel Salmon explained that vaccines are preventive “and a preventative vaccine is something you give to your body that stimulates an immune response, so when you're exposed to the natural infection, your body will already be prepared to respond.”

“Certainly, the COVID vaccines fall into that category of being preventative vaccines,” he added.

 

[ranger danger]

I've seen several numbers bandied about but when you average them out, aprox 18% to 20% of the population is getting covid. Of the 100% who get covid, less than 30% are having "severe" reactions to it and only about 5% are resulting in death. I like my odds.

 

[jimh406]

If one believes the reports it sure looks like the unvaccinated are where the pandemic is currently focused.

Of course if one believes the reports are fabrications and lies, he will come to a different conclusion…

You can’t have it both ways. If quite a bit less than 1% were having bad outcomes was having a pandemic, then quite a bit less than 1% of the vaccinated having bad outcomes is a pandemic. Btw, this is just semantics.

As noted, many of us know people who were vaccinated that ended up in the hospital either from the vaccine initially or from getting Covid after.

The initial guidance to get vaccinated to get your life back doesn’t seem to follow with the new guidance of wear a mask because even vaccinated people can spread it. Again, I don’t think it was deception. It’s just something they don’t know even if they pretend to know. Of course, it’s the same thing with the “safe” vaccines. I’m sure they are making their best guesses.

 

[Henro]

You can’t have it both ways. If quite a bit less than 1% were having bad outcomes was having a pandemic, then quite a bit less than 1% of the vaccinated having bad outcomes is a pandemic. Btw, this is just semantics.

I tried, but can’t understand your point. It’s more like 99% of those who die currently are unvaccinated, with the remaining 1% being vaccinated.

As noted, many of us know people who were vaccinated that ended up in the hospital either from the vaccine initially or from getting Covid after.

Even if a fact, how many million people do you personally know to compare those acquaintances to? To draw valid conclusions one needs to look at a statistically significant sample size.

.

The initial guidance to get vaccinated to get your life back doesn’t seem to follow with the new guidance of wear a mask because even vaccinated people can spread it. Again, I don’t think it was deception. It’s just something they don’t know even if they pretend to know. Of course, it’s the same thing with the “safe” vaccines. I’m sure they are making their best guesses.

Of course it does.. Data changes, viruses change through mutation. Common sense says that reaction should change when the situation you are dealing with changes...

Are doctors always right? NO, but they are likely to more right about medical issues than the panhandler on the corner. One has to look at the source and evaluate the message.

Personally I put my faith in respected organizations run by medical professionals rather than other sources.

Perhaps a “choose your own poison” decision...

 

[jimh406]

Common sense says that reaction should change when the situation you are dealing with changes...

The point is that the advice given hasn’t been 100% right and even contradictory. Each time it is contradictory they insist they are right “this time”. It’s easy to see why some people don’t trust what they are hearing from people who aren’t admitting mistakes.

Funny that you mention a nondoctor (panhandler) because some of those have been right as much as the public health officials because the public health officials have recommended opposites. Don’t wear a mask, wear a mask etc etc.

You can blame it on a mutating virus, incompetence, power grabbing, or simply that this is a new type of virus that needs more research study. So, many of us say tell the truth explain the real tradeoffs of vaccine vs not and let people decide what they think they should do.

So I agree with choose your own poison.

 

[ranger danger]

The point is that the advice given hasn’t been 100% right and even contradictory. Each time it is contradictory they insist they are right “this time”. It’s easy to see why some people don’t trust what they are hearing from people who aren’t admitting mistakes.

Funny that you mention a nondoctor (panhandler) because some of those have been right as much as the public health officials because the public health officials have recommended opposites. Don’t wear a mask, wear a mask etc etc.

You can blame it on a mutating virus, incompetence, power grabbing, or simply that this is a new type of virus that needs more research study. So, many of us say tell the truth explain the real tradeoffs of vaccine vs not and let people decide what they think they should do.

So I agree with choose your own poison.

There's only one reason the medical experts and government won't tell us the truth. They lose control and power over there " subjects" and make no mistake, we are now subjects.

 

[David Page]

You know, I guess I was fishing when I started this thread.

I simply was stating that if a person who is able to get the vaccination declines, then I respect their decision, but will not shed a tear for them if they end up suffering terribly or dying. Their choice. Live of die by it.

If I recall correctly, I think only two people responded directly.

Actually I started to get discourage by some of the responses, and thought I'd better just move on and forget about this thread.

BUT it has become educational to me. So I am still here! It is interesting to see people thinking in such different ways. On one side, people seem to think others are unable to see the facts and come to reasonable conclusions. On a different side, people think the government or people in power are trying to control them and so they reject ideas being presented. And it seems there are more than two sides here.

I am kind of now liking hearing the different perspectives. I have mine too, but none of us are going to change the world via this thread.

For me it is now entertaining and educational!

Many on both sides make what seem to be good points, but for me it seems many of us get our facts from different places and different scientists.

 

[Henro]

Many on both sides make what seem to be good points, but for me it seems many of us get our facts from different places and different scientists.

I guess so...definately differently places, and sometimes not even from scientists or medical professionals...

 

[Nicfin36]

I used to hear on the news many years ago up until not long ago about anti-vax parents not letting their children having vaccines. The news and people would say, "Oh, poor kids, I hope they don't get sick." Now, all we hear is, "Oh, goodness, I hope those unvaccinated people don't cause problems for those vaccinated people and make them sick."

I have never taken the Flu shot. Funny, I never did hear about how we all must take the Flu shot because those of us that don't will cause this super mutation and make the vaccinated sick.

 

[eserv]

I guess so...definately differently places, and sometimes not even from scientists or medical professionals...

A pretty good article!! https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...VYczf6M3DZsGkHf06EVZ52HBZbUafaFBebSXSrvn_SDMs

 

[i7win7]

Military Arrests Bill Gates - Real Raw News

The U.S. military on Tuesday arrested Microsoft founder Bill Gates, charging the socially awkward misfit with child trafficking and other unspeakable crimes against America and its people. Sources within the U.S. Navy Judge Advocate General’s Corps told Real Raw News that the military had spent...

realrawnews.com

 

[jimh406]

Military Arrests Bill Gates - Real Raw News

The U.S. military on Tuesday arrested Microsoft founder Bill Gates, charging the socially awkward misfit with child trafficking and other unspeakable crimes against America and its people. Sources within the U.S. Navy Judge Advocate General’s Corps told Real Raw News that the military had spent...

realrawnews.com

Unfortunately about as accurate as some of the other “news” or other outlets like the “Atlantic”. Also about as important to most of us as other stories they push. Some of it “could” be true, but takes a bit of a leap to believe all of it.

I found the Atlantic article particularly ironic given their history of misleading. Hard to say if they believe what they publish or not.