Traded my L2501 HST for a Kioti DK4210SE

[jimh406]

I think your orange-colored glasses are preventing you from being objective.

Seems like you have orange-colored glasses. They just happen to be the wrong orange.

The truth is there are no direct competitor tractors just direct competitive brands. The model lines for each brand don’t directly compare. And in the brand war, Kioti is not a serious competitor to Kubota. Kubota’s direct competitor brand is green, but you know that. Kioti’s is all of the rest except for green and Kubota.

As far as when was the standard L updated, you can look that up. It doesn’t matter to most of us. I could have bought the “newest” redo LX if I had wanted, but it didn’t have the features I wanted.

 

[airbiscuit]

The current shortage of dealer stock is going to help Kioti, LS and Mahindra. Competition helps keep the market leaders honest.

 

[nota4re]

Kioti is not a serious competitor to Kubota. Kubota’s direct competitor brand is green, but you know that. Kioti’s is all of the rest except for green and Kubota.

Thank you for your valuable insight and market research results.

 

[Goz63]

Thank you for your valuable insight and market research results.

And thank you for coming to a Kubota forem and get all butt hurt when everyone doesn’t agree with your unbelievably valuable insight. Stop sniping at people. If not everyone is enthralled with your decision get over it.

 

[nota4re]

And thank you for coming to a Kubota forem and get all butt hurt when everyone doesn’t agree with your unbelievably valuable insight. Stop sniping at people. If not everyone is enthralled with your decision get over it.

Grow up. Did you read the title of the thread? If you are not interested in the topic, no one is forcing you to read the thread. I don't care who agrees and disagrees - the spirit was to share information across different brands. Apologies for the small snipe when someone states something so silly as there are no direct competitors, etc. That's just too humorous.

My butt is just fine - just don't venture into the thread if you think something might cause you some soreness. I think if you objectively read any of my previous posts in this thread (that I started), you will see a lot more FACTS than you will see insight.

 

[Goz63]

Ah so now your going to gas light based on a title. Slow clap for you.

 

[jimh406]

Apologies for the small snipe when someone states something so silly as there are no direct competitors, etc. That's just too humorous.

Fwiw, I didn’t think it was an effective snipe and wasn’t bothered by it although I could clearly see you were bothered by my post.

I actually didn’t say there are no direct competitors. I said that Kubota’s direct competitor is green. I went on to say Kioti competes with the other brands. They each have competitors.

Go back and read my first post on this thread to see that I said congratulations and I wished you well. Push the thread to the weeds and some of us might follow you there.

 

[NHSleddog]

Well my BIL has a 4th issue now. Coolant leak, should only be 1-2 weeks at the dealer. He thinks it stems from the last trip to the dealer where the hydro was getting into the coolant.

I could honestly have purchased a Kubota with the cash he has LOST with the Kioti sitting at the dealer. I tried to get him to come in here and "share" his experience, honestly I think he is just embarrassed at this point.

And he hasn't even tried to sell it yet. Good luck to him on the resale. Kiotis are cheap before AND after the sale - lol.

You seem to know a little about this stuff but not willing to learn the rest.

Hydraulic flow (gpm) has to do with how fast the cylinder goes in and out. Pressure is what determines the force. A 2in cylinder with 2000psi at 1gpm will lift a lot more than a 2in cylinder with 100psi at 10gpm, it will just be slower. GPM for speed, pressure for force. Kubota has the balance of those two really dialed in.

Another point. Weight and weight distribution on the tractor has a LOT to do with the design of the hydraulics system (you seem to think it plays no role). Kubota builds to international standards ISO and believe it or not, tractor/loader/excavator etc. lifting capacities are well defined and all revolve around a fraction of the gross weight to the lifting capacity. Kubota could easily double the lifting capacity on machines, but not without effecting the balance of that ratio. I couldn't see/find where Kioti built to any standards, but loader capacity isn't some magic "they can lift more because they are better". If they follow the standard they will be very similar to any of the other brands that build to the standard. The weight of the machine is always the limiting factor determining loader lift capacity on CUTs.

I am not sure how you "see" quality in a tractor by looking at the paint. A perfect paint job on a motor that was built with a bunch of parts that were not heat treated would be hard to see but complete crap just the same. The rockwell hardness of any of the metals involved are hard to "see" but really easy to "see" the results of force put on the lesser quality metal.

Sometimes things cost MORE simply because they are BETTER. Better materials, better build, better overall cost of ownership. And I will never forget my grandmother saying "the best isn't for everyone".

I am sure I am biased due to all the crap my BIL is going through with his.

 

[nota4re]

Well my BIL has a 4th issue now. Coolant leak, should only be 1-2 weeks at the dealer. He thinks it stems from the last trip to the dealer where the hydro was getting into the coolant.

Do you really think your BIL experience is statistically significant??

Have your read any other parts of this forum? Perhaps you have seen a new Kubota owner with some teething problems? Does it mean that Kubota's are junk? That's essentially what you are saying.

Let me summarize my perspective:

Take 3 Kubota compact tractor models with loaders. Choose the 3 Kioti tractor models that would be the closest competitors. Put the 3 pairs of tractors side by side. Now, take 10 engineers and have them compare the tractors. Look at things like cylinder size, cylinder mounts, thickness of metal used, build quality, ergonomics, etc. My claim is that more will choose Kioti over Kubota.

Many of you assume that Kioti is a lower cost competitor. This is also not true - in my experience. The Kioti's were VERY similar in price to the Kubota. In short, I don't think folks are buying Kioti's because they think they are saving money - they are choosing them because they believe they are a better tractor.

 

[jimh406]

My claim is that more will choose Kioti over Kubota.

The reality is that if the majority of people agreed with your premise, the resale value would be better, and there would be lots and lots of Kioti dealers.

If you love your tractor and are happy with it, go enjoy it. If you have buyer’s remorse, sorry.

At the end of the day although it’s orange, it’s never going to be a Kubota.

 

[NvRudder]

Do you really think your BIL experience is statistically significant??

Have your read any other parts of this forum? Perhaps you have seen a new Kubota owner with some teething problems? Does it mean that Kubota's are junk? That's essentially what you are saying.

Let me summarize my perspective:

Take 3 Kubota compact tractor models with loaders. Choose the 3 Kioti tractor models that would be the closest competitors. Put the 3 pairs of tractors side by side. Now, take 10 engineers and have them compare the tractors. Look at things like cylinder size, cylinder mounts, thickness of metal used, build quality, ergonomics, etc. My claim is that more will choose Kioti over Kubota.

Many of you assume that Kioti is a lower cost competitor. This is also not true - in my experience. The Kioti's were VERY similar in price to the Kubota. In short, I don't think folks are buying Kioti's because they think they are saving money - they are choosing them because they believe they are a better tractor.

The ultimate unbiased indicator of brand and product quality is the “Market”. If Kioti was better than Kubota, then Kioti supply would be equally constrained (due to high demand) and Resale values would also remain high due to proven (long term) product build quality (and equal service support).

Kioti simply has not achieved parity with Kubota on either of these…product is more available and resale values are not close to what used Kubota’s command. If one also includes an assessment of Dealer capabilities, Kioti value also falls short. A Kioti Dealer search by my local zip code (Northern NV) indicates the following businesses:

• Feed & Supply store
• Ace Hardware
• Sharpening and small engine repair
• Custom Trailer store
• Tractors

Only 1 out of the 5 local Kioti Dealers is solely a tractor sales & service focused business.
Certainly Kioti is not necessarily a bad brand or product…but the market still favors Kubota.

 

[nota4re]

The reality is that if the majority of people agreed with your premise, the resale value

Resale value of the Kubotas will be strong due to their well-deserved reputation. I've said this before. But note that resale value of the Kioti's is NOT necessarily bad- but not at the level of Kubota.

If you have buyer’s remorse, sorry.

LOL. My neighbor purchased an L3901 within a couple of weeks me purchasing my L2501 a little more than a year ago. He stopped by and checked out the new Kioti. It's likely he's going to do a similar upgrade. (Allegedly he's experienced some DPF-cycle issues recently with the 3901 and he's not a happy camper.)

Only 1 out of the 5 local Kioti Dealers is solely a tractor sales & service focused business.
Certainly Kioti is not necessarily a bad brand or product…but the market still favors Kubota.

Agree.

 

[jimh406]

It's likely he's going to do a similar upgrade. (Allegedly he's experienced some DPF-cycle issues recently with the 3901 and he's not a happy camper.)

Of course, it wouldn’t be an upgrade. If he’s having DPF issues with a Kubota L3901, he’ll sure have the same problem with a Kioti that has a DPF, too.

Congratulations though on convincing one person to buy a Kioti.

 

[Goz63]

I love the line “Do you really think your BIL experience is statistically significant??” But then says “My neighbor purchased an L3901 within a couple of weeks me purchasing my L2501 a little more than a year ago. He stopped by and checked out the new Kioti. It's likely he's going to do a similar upgrade.”

so the BIL is not statistically significant but the neighbor is. Lol!

 

[Motronic]

I love the line “Do you really think your BIL experience is statistically significant??” But then says “My neighbor purchased an L3901 within a couple of weeks me purchasing my L2501 a little more than a year ago. He stopped by and checked out the new Kioti. It's likely he's going to do a similar upgrade.”

so the BIL is not statistically significant but the neighbor is. Lol!

Brand identity people are super boring and you can't change their minds.

I'm on here because I have a couple of kubotas. I have other stuff too, and I'm not going to try to convince you to buy any of it. Some of it is because I thought it was the best piece of equipment, some of it was because it was the right thing for the right job at the right time and price.

In the end, these things are tools. But it's fun to read this thread and see people acting like tools about their favorite color/brand.

 

[Andrew270]

Figured I'd throw my two cents in. First congrats on the new tractor. Apparently there are many here that don't like kioti for one reason or another. Since you purchased one, again congrats, it's always a fun time with a new tractor. That being said, I personally have not had great experience with them. I worked as a maintenance tech for a company that had a dk65. After the trouble with that tractor I would not own one personally. Here is my experience.

First, replaced 4 clutches in 3 years and it took a month to get the more specific parts for the repair.

Second, it would not loft a full bucket of gravel. They claimed it was due to hydraulic pressure. After the dealers 3rd attempt at raising the pressure where it would, the lift arms collapsed/broke.

Third, the gear failure in the front end.

And last, the warning sticker that said use low gear when entering rice fields.

I don't know if this was a "lemon" or just manufacturer issue but this was my experience I thought I would share!

Enjoy the new tractor by all means!

 

[jimh406]

Brand identity people are super boring and you can't change their minds.

Although I agree with the statement, I don’t think applies to very many people on this thread.

I can’t speak for everyone, but I have a Kubota because they are solid, have solid dealer support, and I know that I’ll have no problem selling/trading it if I ever want to because of their reputation. There are only two compact tractor brands that I can say that about, and one is green and the other is Kubota.

It’s the reality, and I’m realistic. For anyone who doesn’t care about those things or weights them differently, there are other options like Kioti.

 

[Motronic]

It’s the reality, and I’m realistic. For anyone who doesn’t care about those things or weights them differently, there are other options like Kioti.

That's exactly my point. You started out talking about what matters to you about buying a tractor. These aren't necessarily the prioritized list of things that matter to other people or even their opinions of the brand. And that's okay. You aren't going to change their mind. You goals are you goals, their goals and their take on what is what are theirs.

Don't try to fob this off with "my opinions are correct". I bet they are....for YOU. It's the implied "so everyone else is wrong" that's the problem.

 

[jimh406]

Don't try to fob this off with "my opinions are correct".

Don’t try to pretend like the facts are “opinions” just because you weigh them differently. After weighing all of the facts, you can reach a different conclusion, but that doesn’t magically make the facts opinions.

 

[Motronic]

Don’t try to pretend like the facts are “opinions” just because you weigh them differently. After weighing all of the facts, you can reach a different conclusion, but that doesn’t magically make the facts opinions.

Seems you've completely missed the context of what you quoted out of my post.