Traded my L2501 HST for a Kioti DK4210SE

[nota4re]

I love the line “Do you really think your BIL experience is statistically significant??” But then says “My neighbor purchased an L3901 within a couple of weeks me purchasing my L2501 a little more than a year ago. He stopped by and checked out the new Kioti. It's likely he's going to do a similar upgrade.”

so the BIL is not statistically significant but the neighbor is. Lol!

I'm so proud you were able to connect those two points! Bravo!

 

[nota4re]

Seems that the devoted Kubota diehards are so insecure that they are compelled to hang out here - in a thread that I created to share information on Kioti. Talk about panties in a twist!!! OMG!

 

[NHSleddog]

Seems that the devoted Kubota diehards are so insecure that they are compelled to hang out here - in a thread that I created to share information on Kioti. Talk about panties in a twist!!! OMG!

No we are having fun. You are pushing Hyundais in the Lexux forum. We get it. Sometimes things cost more simply because they are better. Someday you may get the oppertunity to understand this.

Based on my BIL's experience, I would not own one EVER. This was before you came in here trying to sell everyone on them.

You seem to be the insecure one. We get it, you believe only your opinion counts and should be considered "fact". The Kioti nightmare stories we have dealt with don't count and should be considered opinions. Resale value does not count. Dealer support does not count. When you are a hypocrite, we should not point it out, or you will call us names. Grow up.

Anything else?

 

[Goz63]

And you get notified when a thread you have posted on has been updated. By The Way your approval just means everything to. Wow he is proud of me. My life is now complete.

 

[Goz63]

Only an idiot would come to a Kubota forum and tell everyone “ hey I’m dumping my Kubota for …” unless you were looking for this reaction. Yes YOU started the thread. Pretty sure you got exactly what you bargained for. Yep, we are Kubota fans. This is my shocked face. YOUR ON A KIBOTA SIGHT!

 

[nota4re]

You seem to be the insecure one. We get it, you believe only your opinion counts and should be considered "fact". The Kioti nightmare stories we have dealt with don't count and should be considered opinions. Resale value does not count. Dealer support does not count. When you are a hypocrite, we should not point it out, or you will call us names. Grow up.

Maybe you should try to open your mind just a bit and READ.

1. Each brand has nightmare stories. There are several Kubota nightmare stories on this forum. Does Kubota have a MUCH better reputation that other tractor brands? Hell yes. How many times have I agreed with this - yet you keep bringing it up. Tell me anywhere where I have said that Kioti has a better reputation than Kubota or where I have done anything but acknowledge the "well deserved" Kubota reputation.

2. Who ever said that resale doesn't count? Once again, I have said that Kubota has a well-deserved reputation AND good resale. The best. Have I EVER said anything different? That said, I don't think recent Kioti models will have poor resale value - but likely not as good as Kubota.

3. Dealer support/proximity DOES count - I've said so repeatedly. It's probably one of the biggest factors.

4. A hypocrite? LOL - I re-phrased your BIL claims to "my neighbor" claims... and some people got it, some people didn't. I can draw you a picture if it helps.

Please go hang out in another thread where your fragile ego doesn't become threatened.

 

[NHSleddog]

All but hurt, thats great.

Can't handle another opinion? - Tell them to leave that should protect you. I hear it helps if you block your ears as well.

Riddle me this - Kioti has been being sold in America since 1993. In 30 years time they still have back yard dealers and a 3rd world supply chain. 30 YEARS - this isn't some new up-and-comer they have had the same bad reputation for decades. Are you under 20?

Why in 30 years time have they not figured any of this out?

The ONLY thing you can point to as being "better" is a lifting capacity. That is because they don't design/build to international standards. ISO 7131:2009(full section) This is also why you don't see municipalities using them. And probably a host of other companies that require ISO certification. I could actually see insurance companies denying claims after the *&$#^ hits the fan because the tractors were not built to any standard/spec.

Again, stick with cheap, it suits you. Just don't get all but hurt when others explain why they went with Kubota.

It is funny, you are in here peddling from another brand in the KUBOTA forum, any you tell KUBOTA owners to leave. We're just defending that GREAT reputation that Kubota has EARNED.

How about you go try to find a Kioti forum (that is running) and join the circle. I tried to find one for you but all I found was Kioti horror stories in other forums.

 

[airbiscuit]

I'll say it again.
Kubota is the Gold Standard
Kioti is an Up and Comer

Kioti reminds me of the trajectory of Hyundai. In the early days, they were viewed as cheap and lesser. They had small and limited dealers. In relatively short order, they refined and improved their product. They paid attention to their customer wants and needs. They kept pressing forward, and today have a greater market share than Ford or GM!

I own a Kubota an I love it, but I am happy to see the competition in the CUT market. I think Kioti makes nice, feature rich tractors. If i was looking to buy a new CUT, Kioti would be on my short list of brands to consider (along with Kubota). Kioti will continue to grow and refine it's products and dealer network. The Kubota mother ship will ignore them at their own peril.

 

[nota4re]

All of this from your vast experience with your B-series ride-on mower? Wow, I feel so schooled!
Speaking of school, pssst.... the "butt" you repetitively try to refer to has two "t's".

I keep trying to bring the discussion back onto the rails - while you are bound and determined to go off the reservation. From my recent, brand agnostic, shopping experience;

1. Proximity of and quality of the dealer should be a heavy influence on your buying decision. (This is going to be an advantage to Kubota who, generally speaking has better, more mature dealers.)
2. Make yourself a spreadsheet and keep track of all specs that are important to you - size, weight, price, capacities, etc..... even if your are shopping same brand but different models
3. Don't be afraid to look at other brands - especially when you have a brand dealer near to you and/or that you have a good experience with. Kubota is far from the only game in town.
4. Watch the myriad of youtube videos - some are admittedly goofy and others are quire credible. In my experience, you will find a LOT of videos where people are really liking their Kioti products.
5. Look at warranties. Currently, the warranty provided other brands (including Kioti) is better than Kubota
6. Whatever tractor you choose - as long as it is meeting/exceeding your spreadsheet criteria for capabilities, is probably going to serve you very well - and you will be very happy.

Again, stick with cheap, it suits you.

Although I paid cash for my tractor, sadly it is the minority that do. While you want to refer to the Kioti and other brands as "cheap", the irony is that Kubota's long-running 7-year 0% interest programs more often than not, making it the cheaper alternative. I can only surmise that the competition is definitely being felt and Kubota can no longer command the price differentiation it once enjoyed - hence the finance plans. This is a clever way to deeply discount your product while trying to retain market share and fend off competition.

Finally, I would recommend to google product (model) comparisons. I haven't compiled any meaningful stats but it sure seems that more often than not when Kioti models are compared to Kubota - Kioti emerges the winner.... and Kubota is left with relying on it reliability reputation to try and even the score. DON'T take my word for it - go see for yourselves.

 

[jimh406]

You are just beating the dead horse again, there is more to tractors than specs. Funny that you assume the rest of us don’t know how to decide what we want to buy.

Btw, I think you meant word not work.

 

[Motronic]

Love how this guy keeps spreadsheet-racing tractors.

If that's what matters to you buy whatever you want because you obviously don't have any real work to do, or any basis for understanding the differences between largely-bullshit published numbers.

 

[nota4re]

Love how this guy keeps spreadsheet-racing tractors.

If that's what matters to you buy whatever you want because you obviously don't have any real work to do, or any basis for understanding the differences between largely-bullshit published numbers.

Do you even read before responding? You don't think it's sage advice to keep track of the different specs when making a buying decision? Did you read I advocated that even if comparing within a same brand?? And according to you - the specs are "bullshit published numbers"? Really, that's why the industry relatively recently agreed on common specs like "at the pin" or "24in behind the pin", etc. Do you really think that the L2501, for example, can lift as much as its Kioti counterpart and the spec numbers are just lying? Wow! Denial is such a cool thing!

For the sake of argument, can you give us an example of a "bullshit published number"?

 

[Jchonline]

All of this from your vast experience with your B-series ride-on mower? Wow, I feel so schooled!
Speaking of school, pssst.... the "butt" you repetitively try to refer to has two "t's".

I keep trying to bring the discussion back onto the rails - while you are bound and determined to go off the reservation. From my recent, brand agnostic, shopping experience;

1. Proximity of and quality of the dealer should be a heavy influence on your buying decision. (This is going to be an advantage to Kubota who, generally speaking has better, more mature dealers.)
2. Make yourself a spreadsheet and keep track of all specs that are important to you - size, weight, price, capacities, etc..... even if your are shopping same brand but different models
3. Don't be afraid to look at other brands - especially when you have a brand dealer near to you and/or that you have a good experience with. Kubota is far from the only game in town.
4. Watch the myriad of youtube videos - some are admittedly goofy and others are quire credible. In my experience, you will find a LOT of videos where people are really liking their Kioti products.
5. Look at warranties. Currently, the warranty provided other brands (including Kioti) is better than Kubota
6. Whatever tractor you choose - as long as it is meeting/exceeding your spreadsheet criteria for capabilities, is probably going to serve you very well - and you will be very happy.



Although I paid cash for my tractor, sadly it is the minority that do. While you want to refer to the Kioti and other brands as "cheap", the irony is that Kubota's long-running 7-year 0% interest programs more often than not, making it the cheaper alternative. I can only surmise that the competition is definitely being felt and Kubota can no longer command the price differentiation it once enjoyed - hence the finance plans. This is a clever way to deeply discount your product while trying to retain market share and fend off competition.

Finally, I would recommend to google product (model) comparisons. I haven't compiled any meaningful stats but it sure seems that more often than not when Kioti models are compared to Kubota - Kioti emerges the winner.... and Kubota is left with relying on it reliability reputation to try and even the score. DON'T take my word for it - go see for yourselves.

Spreadsheets are useful to identify glaring differences in specs, and I used one a few years ago as well. I compared the Grand L, Deere 4 series, Kioti, LS, TYM, etc.

However case and point as others mentioned...I ended up with a M62 which was not even on that spreadsheet.

Yes the spreadsheet helped, but what others are saying is don't look at that, find the one that has the highest numbers and buy it. That is a bad decision.

Here are a couple of examples from me personally. I demoed LS, TYM, Kioti, Kubota, Deere. Kubota was noticeably smoother with transmission and FEL work. Deere 4 series cab felt cramped. LS I could not get the seat adjusted with a combination of the steering wheel angle to get my foot at a comfortable angle to operate the pedals (I really tried for 10 min and with dealer...I liked that machine) . TYM the FEL and transmission were choppy, HST almost jerked my neck around. None of this stuff was in my spreadsheet. The M62 wasnt either but after looking at the crappy 2 seat backhoe setups on all of the above, the work I had to do and the ROPS/FOPS on the M62 in my wooded areas...it was the clear winner. Buy a machine based on it and you will probably be sorry.

I hope you demoed the Kioti before purchase. I am not saying it is a bad decision, but just want you to get what you want.

 

[D2Cat]

Here's a thread the original poster would probably enjoy. Probably less aggravating for him.

Tractor BS !!!

I am so sick and tired of hearing (so called )Tractor guys tell me that I made a mistake buying a Kioti Tractor because of no dealer support. More like weekend dirt diggers who think they got it figured out !!! I saved 8 grand over a comparable Kubota . Yes I have owned both brands , but I...

www.forumsforums.com

 

[Motronic]

Do you even read before responding?

Yes, but sadly it seems you either do not read, or have a reading comprehension problem.

You shouldn't make final decision about equipment choices based on spreadsheet or published numbers. Period. No further discussion or nuance required. For some reason you don't seem to get this, probably because you've owned and operated very few machines. If that's not the case it leaves only even worse reasons.

You really need examples of bullshit published specs? Have you not noticed that competing brands often don't measure bucket force from the same positions? This makes the spec nearly useless to compare between them. How about engine horsepower? What the hell good is that number when you're comparing it to a different brand with a different transmission that has more or less loss through the system? They COULD provide something more like a dyno result as is often done with the PTO output but AGAIN, it's not consistently measured or done between brands.

The best use of published data is comparing models inside the same brand. Using it as a basis of comparison between brands it nothing more than a rough sorting mechanism to see if you're comparing equipment in the same class that it built for the same purpose. Using it for anything more than that is a fools errand. One that seems to lead to decisions like yours where the real selling point is that it's cheaper. And if running a cheaper machine is what matters to you, and that is absolutely what comes through in your posts even if you try to cover it with other specs, then go for it.

You're also not the only person here who can pay cash for equipment, so financing doesn't even play into their decisions.

I've got a mutt of a brand piece of equipment too. It was cheap and it works. It's sometimes a pain in the ass to find parts for but I'm able to live without if and when that happens. Or fabricobble something together to make it work. That was a considered decision that I made based on what I needed from that piece of equipment. Not a single time have I come on here telling people they are suckers for buying K-008 nmini exes and calling them chumps because my cheaper Yanmar has 100lbs more bucket breakout force (when measured with a smaller bucket than the one that comes with the competing Kubota).

 

[nota4re]

Yes the spreadsheet helped, but what others are saying is don't look at that, find the one that has the highest numbers and buy it. That is a bad decision.

Here are a couple of examples from me personally. I demoed LS, TYM, Kioti, Kubota, Deere. Kubota was noticeably smoother with transmission and FEL work. Deere 4 series cab felt cramped. LS I could not get the seat adjusted with a combination of the steering wheel angle to get my foot at a comfortable angle to operate the pedals (I really tried for 10 min and with dealer...I liked that machine) . TYM the FEL and transmission were choppy, HST almost jerked my neck around. None of this stuff was in my spreadsheet. The M62 wasnt either but after looking at the crappy 2 seat backhoe setups on all of the above, the work I had to do and the ROPS/FOPS on the M62 in my wooded areas...it was the clear winner. Buy a machine based on it and you will probably be sorry.

I hope you demoed the Kioti before purchase. I am not saying it is a bad decision, but just want you to get what you want.

100% in agreement.

Seems like everything I say in this thread the hater want to take it and twist it to their own benefit. The latest example is that all of a sudden I am saying that a prospective buyer should make their decision SOLELY based on a spreadsheet comparing features/specs/capacities, etc. Like I EVER said that!

Sheesh!

Case in point. As I have mentioned ad-nauseum, the Kioti products typically have higher FEL lift capabilities. In many cases, it is a big difference. However, I will also say that the "control fidelity" is much better in the Kubota. Jump from a Kubota (as I did) to a comparable Kioti, and you will look like a real amateur in trying to achieve the same smoothness as is more easily achievable in the Kubota. There is no spec that really points to that - you really need to experience it and see if it is livable. After some hours on the Kioti, I am definitely smoother that I was initially but the controls are definitely "touchier". It may or may not be a turn-off.... and a demo will reveal that.

 

[nota4re]

You shouldn't make final decision about equipment choices based on spreadsheet or published numbers.

Reading comprehension? Maybe you can tell me where I ever said that you should make your decision based solely on a spreadsheet?

Have you not noticed that competing brands often don't measure bucket force from the same positions?

Gotta hand it to you guys. First argument is that there are differences in lift capacities but that Kuboat is smarter and better balanced machine. Then the next argument is that, nah, the lift specs are just baloney. And, in case you didn't notice, the manufactures ARE standardizing their specs to pivot pins, etc. (Reading comprehension?)

The best use of published data is comparing models inside the same brand. Using it as a basis of comparison between brands it nothing more than a rough sorting mechanism to see if you're comparing equipment in the same class that it built for the same purpose. Using it for anything more than that is a fools errand.

Well, we can agree to disagree. Buyers DO care about spec - bucket size, lifting capacity, total height of bucket lift, 3-pt lift capacity, weight, etc. Hardly a fool's errand.

One that seems to lead to decisions like yours where the real selling point is that it's cheaper.

Here we go again. Other brands are not necessarily cheaper than you beloved Kubota. Often the prices are very similar. And when you consider that 1/2 or more people are financing the tractor, then "cheaper" often falls on the side of the Kubotas who seem to have a perpetual 0% financing... which is simply a way of discounting their product.

You're also not the only person here who can pay cash for equipment, so financing doesn't even play into their decisions.

Here we go again.... don't twist my words. Here's the EXACT quote from my post:

Although I paid cash for my tractor, sadly it is the minority that do.

Admittedly, I do not know what % of the population is financing, but my local (large) Kubota dealer told me for them it was more than half.

Not a single time have I come on here telling people they are suckers for buying K-008 nmini exes and calling them chumps because my cheaper Yanmar has 100lbs more bucket breakout force

And I did that??? I think not! My Kubota L2501 was about $19K OTD. The Kioti DK4210SECH was about $34K OTD. Is it better? I certainly hope so!! I've done nothing to denigrate the purchase decision of others but only shared my experience and observations is making a purchase decision. I was once Kubota through and through (like, ahem, many of you here) and then I started looking a Mahindras because there was a nearby dealer that carried them. Going and looking at them objectively and researching them, their history and reputation, brought me straight back to Kubota's camp. Kind of a hand-slap of "what the heck was I thinking." But then for whatever the reason I stumbled across a youtube video or two on the Kiotis and fully expected to have another Mahindra experience. Only I didn't.

The only think I wanted to share in this thread is if you are considering Kubota Model ABC or Kubota Model XYZ, you might also consider Kioti Model XXX. You might be pleasantly surprised - or maybe you'll just feel happier about your Kubota decision.

 

[nota4re]

Here's a thread the original poster would probably enjoy. Probably less aggravating for him.

10 years ago I believe there was a larger price gap. In these past 10 years, EVERYONE has upped their game and I sincerely believe that the products are more closely aligned and similar. Competition has improved the breed.

 

[lynnmor]

Just think, I read this thread to pick up some information about another brand. I purchased an in stock Kubota three months ago and still have nothing due to quality issues. Now I need to make a decision about the useless tractor and dealer and move on. The squabbles on here are of no use to members like me.

 

[jimh406]

The only think I wanted to share in this thread is if you are considering Kubota Model ABC or Kubota Model XYZ, you might also consider Kioti Model XXX. You might be pleasantly surprised - or maybe you'll just feel happier about your Kubota decision.

It seems you shared a lot more than that.