Switching grease and pondering compatibility issues

[Tornado]

Hello all. I havent been around here much lately. The grease I had been using on my L2501 and variouns implements has become hard to buy, perhaps due to covid, and so I am changing greases. Ive done a lot of research and went back and forth on which product to go with. Ive researched every major option. I wanted to go with one that was more widely available. I settled on Schaeffer's 238 Ultra Supreme The grease I had been using was one a little harder to find, but also one I had done a lot of research on at the time: Prolong's EP2

Schaeffer's grease is an Aluminum Complex grease. Prolong's EP2 is a Calcium Sulfonate grease. Looking online at various charts and things, these two grease bases are listed as "borderline" for compatibility; so not incompatible, but not compatible either.

I really want to try and avoid a grease debate here on which is better - That is not the purpose of this post. What I am trying to better understand is the issue of incompatibility of greases. I know there are many long time equipment owners here who have been greasing zerks for much longer than I have, and likely could share some experience on this topic. As I said my primary greasing functions are the tractor loader, my pto shafts, my lawn mower belt bearings, etc. When I do finally run out of my old tube and go to the new grease I plan to, especially on the loader and such, really pump the grease to it hard to hopefully push as much old grease out as possible. What sorts of issues have you guys seen when switching greases?

 

[William1]

You will be fine. Normal method is to pump in new grease until you see the new grease coming out. With tight pins and bushings, it is not a whole lot needed. Some here use two very different greases, like a red and a then a black to make the expulsion very apparent.
Grease type is less important than grease intervals.

 

[Tughill Tom]

Never an issue with Non-rotating parts, (Bearings) Just change it over and don't loose and sleep over it. If they are rotating/loaded bearings then over lube and clean, run and repeat.
Just an fyi look at Lucas Red& Tacky it stays where you put, just my 2 cents.

 

[Tornado]

You will be fine. Normal method is to pump in new grease until you see the new grease coming out. With tight pins and bushings, it is not a whole lot needed. Some here use two very different greases, like a red and a then a black to make the expulsion very apparent.
Grease type is less important than grease intervals.

Thanks for your input william. I really was curious what the worst case scenario is for greases that are wholly incompatible. One article I was reading on this topic mentioned that incompatible greases can thin, so I would assume that would simply mean they wouldnt potentially lubricate as well as they should due to interactions. If that is all that happens then I'm really not concerned - Ill just lube much more regularly for a few times after switching. One other article I read however said that some grease incompatibilities can cause the greases to harden in bearings. That would potentially be a little more concerning, as it could envision if it hardens, it could prevent even new grease from penetrating and doing its job. Just trying to understand the issue better, and what to expect, what the real concerns are, and if they are just minor or something to be more concerned with.

 

[Tornado]

Never an issue with Non-rotating parts, (Bearings) Just change it over and don't loose and sleep over it. If they are rotating/loaded bearings then over lube and clean, run and repeat.
Just an fyi look at Lucas Red& Tacky it stays where you put, just my 2 cents.

Thanks for the input tom. I have looked extensively at Lucas's Red n tacky and their other greases as well. Red n tacky is perhaps the most popular grease out there. I decided not to go with it as it does have a known history of separating over time, causing red oil to leak out of the grease gun and make messes. Ive used grease similar that did that exact same thing and I hated it. My grease gun would drool on everything. I did not want to have that again. The prolong grease I use now is a super high quality grease. Was about $15 a tube and never ran, separated, leaked, or dripped from where it was put. I also wnated to go with hopefully something a little more premium. I only use one tube of grease in like a full year. I have just the one tractor, and I am not on it every day, so spending a little extra on a high quality product was appealing to me.

 

[Pau7220]

Best advice is find what you like and stick with it. Some will spread manure and try to tell you disassembly and cleaning is required before switching. After a couple of greasings all the old stuff will be flushed out. The only ones I have ever seen harden are the cheap clay based products. I actually have some Lubriplate white lithium that has hardened in the tube I use for brake backing plates, steering stops, etc. I use red n tacky now but next time I'm at my dealer I'm going to look at the new line of Valvoline Synthetics.

 

[rScotty]

Thanks for your input william. I really was curious what the worst case scenario is for greases that are wholly incompatible. One article I was reading on this topic mentioned that incompatible greases can thin, so I would assume that would simply mean they wouldnt potentially lubricate as well as they should due to interactions. If that is all that happens then I'm really not concerned - Ill just lube much more regularly for a few times after switching. One other article I read however said that some grease incompatibilities can cause the greases to harden in bearings. That would potentially be a little more concerning, as it could envision if it hardens, it could prevent even new grease from penetrating and doing its job. Just trying to understand the issue better, and what to expect, what the real concerns are, and if they are just minor or something to be more concerned with.

Keep up with the studying. I didn't understand what made grease slippery until one day a grad school professor was talking about geotechnical subjects and why just a slight change in the water content could make clay soil hard as a brick or slippery.

The theory at the time he explained it was that clay molecules are flat like dinner plates and have an electrical attraction to water molecules which bind into a layer between the clay molecules and allow the clay molecules to easily slide past one another. Scale that up, and you have a slippery clay slope...

The takeaway is that what makes clay slippery has to do with the shape and polarity of the clay and water molecules.

So think about grease.....Grease is nothing more than a binder (clay or soap are common binders) mixed with as much oil as the binder will soak up and then laced with about 5 or 10% additives.

A little reading and some research convinced me that grease works in a similar way as clay plus water, but with the water replaced with oil. In fact, early greases were made by mixing clay with oil. Later on, the clay was replaced with soap - which works the same way in that a polar molecule holds onto oil which allows the molecules to slide past one another.

Incompatibility between greases comes about when some "other substance" gets between the clay or soap molecules and replaces the oil. When that happens, the oil is forced out and that "other substance" then causes the clay or soap molecules to stick together and form a dry cake. You've probably seen that in old "dry" bearings or rarely greased joints when rebuilding old machinery. Incompatibility means that the oil is gone and what is left will form a hard block that will not move and can't soak up oil (or water).

The "other substance" that displaces the oil can be nothing more than a type of grease binder based on a different clay or soap. For example there are clays and soaps based on calcium, or aluminum instead of lithium or barium. The binder is the major cause of incompatibility, but not the only one. Additives are a common culprit, and even harder to figure out. Additives can also act as catalysts to increase - or decrease - compatibiliy between different binders with different chemistry.

I'm sure there are better and newer explanations today - my education is from 1990 - but his explanation helped me and hopefully this will in turn help someone else. At least it's a starting point.
rScotty

 

[Tornado]

Thanks for all the input guys, appreciate it.

Does anyone here by chance use Schaeffer's grease? They have several different options. I've read a lot of good things about it.

I want to get a grease and stick with it. My grease I use now however has been sold out for a while, and doesn't seem to be coming back in stock. Hopefully the schaeffer's is a little more prevelant. Obviously going with a major brand like lucas, or valvoline would be the best availability, but all the ones I researched I just wasnt sold on it for one reason or another.

 

[B737]

Does anyone here by chance use Schaeffer's grease? They have several different options. I've read a lot of good things about it.

This thread is headed into many pages

I have been using Lucas red and tacky on everything, but recently purchased Schaeffers 274 to use on the loader, then plan to use R&T on all roller bearings. I did not find a schaeffers grease that seemed suitable for wheel and roller bearings, that would also be ideal for pins on the loader. A lot of the schaeffers grease says not for wheels bearings in their technical data.

I even emailed Schaeffers, and I got one message that said "It's okay to use on bearings" and another that said not to. Something that should be so simple never fails to turn into a black hole.

 

[Tornado]

This thread is headed into many pages

I have been using Lucas red and tacky on everything, but recently purchased Schaeffers 274 to use on the loader, then plan to use R&T on all roller bearings. I did not find a schaeffers grease that seemed suitable for wheel and roller bearings, that would also be ideal for pins on the loader. A lot of the schaeffers grease says not for wheels bearings in their technical data.

I even emailed Schaeffers, and I got one message that said "It's okay to use on bearings" and another that said not to. Something that should be so simple never fails to turn into a black hole.

I hear you 737. I looked hard at red n tacky as I said above, but I really do not like the issue with it seperating after a period of time. Red N' Tacky is known to start leaking its red oil over time, which oozes out of the grease gun, drips on everything and makes a mess. As someone who often takes a full year to go through a single tube of grease, I just didnt want to deal with that again - Ive had that before with other grease and I hated it.

 

[Fordtech86]

Does anyone here by chance use Schaeffer's grease?

Yes I use it on my tractor and zero turn. I get the 238 as well. Switched last year when I ran out of the tubes I bought at the dealer. It stays in place really well and it doesn’t make a mess dripping out of the gun when storing it.

 

[DDCD]

I use amsoil synthetic. Bought in bulk at the member price its the same or close to lucas.

I put it in 3 different machines and didn't think about what was already in there.

 

[nbryan]

My all-purpose is grease Lucas X-Tra Heavy Duty. It's polyurea based and says it's compatible with almost all other greases, and good for bearings. I find it stays in place in the heat and wet, and remains able to hand-lube with a grease gun even in very cold temps. Used for 4 years now, the best I've used for anything.

 

[Tornado]

Yes I use it on my tractor and zero turn. I get the 238 as well. Switched last year when I ran out of the tubes I bought at the dealer. It stays in place really well and it doesn’t make a mess dripping out of the gun when storing it.

good to see your endorsement on it fordtech

 

[B737]

the problem with 238 is they say it shouldnt be used in automotive bearings, which gives me pause about using it on other roller bearings

https://www.schaefferoil.com/documents/123-238-td.pdf

 

[Fordtech86]

To add to my post, I only use the 238 for greasing tractor, loader pins, back hoe, zero turn belt tensioner arms etc. I don’t use it for bearings, I use lithium grease for bearing applications.

 

[mcfarmall]

According to my internet research, grease that has a molybdenum disulphide content greater than 5% should not be used on rolling element bearings. 3% moly is ok for ball and roller bearings. I use the TSC and Blain's Farm & Fleet 3% moly on everything with no known compatibility issues and no separation/dripping from the gun.

 

[rScotty]

For a while now I have been using JD's SD Polyurea grease. Used to use JD's Lithium based grease but it didn't seem to last as well. Long lasting grease is important to me because I am lazy about scheduled greasing & tend to go by the season rather than the tractor hours. With the Polyurea, the old grease that is forced out of the joint looks and feels like the grease going in.

I do use 5% moly, but only on the big pivot bearings at the base of the backhoe. I hate that moly grease because of how it stains, but it is the best grease I know of for a big heavily loaded slow moving bushed bearings...which describes the swing table bearings on a backhoe. The rest of the hoe and all of the FEL & Front axle get the JD polyurea TY6341.

I've been told that JD doesn't make their own grease, and that the JD TY6341 looks and specs out very similar to the Lucas Extreme Duty Polyurea EP grease. Maybe so....I have no idea who actually makes any grease or oil. Every time I think I know I find out something new.
rScotty

 

[Tornado]

the problem with 238 is they say it shouldnt be used in automotive bearings, which gives me pause about using it on other roller bearings

https://www.schaefferoil.com/documents/123-238-td.pdf

Thanks for sharing that B737. I read it over. It seems the 238 is excellent for things like loader greasing, but due to its 5% moly compound and tackyness, isn't recommended for automotive wheel bearings. The paper does mention use in bearings in other places though, so Im just curious....

Do you guys reckon this grease would work fine for ball bearings in a 3 pt. rototiller? There is a single grease zerk opposite the gear drive end that houses a big ball bearing. What about for the grease zerks on the front axle support hub where the drive propeller shaft is on the L2501 tractor? This would be the grease zerk where you remove the breather port, grease it until grease oozes from the port, then replace the screw in the breather port. I would assume the #238 grease would be ok here. The only other thing I wonder about beyond this, that comes to mine at present, are using it on my zero turn mower's belt pulleys, which have grease zerks on them - likely another bearing of some type in the pulley. Thus far I have not used the grease, so I can still 2nd guess these things. Curious what you guys would think about these 3 applications with the #238 grease, which is a 5% moly compound grease.

Also, what about PTO shaft grease zerks?

 

[GeoHorn]

If you are greasing only once a year…that helps explain why your grease gun leaks oil. Grease is supposed to supply oil to the bearings/bushings/etc and good grease contains lots of oil and eventually will seep oil ….unless it doesn’t have much oil to begin-with.

I have a half-dozen grease guns with specialty greases in them … all different. I keep them hanging inside a 5-gal bucket with their bodies inside the bucket and their handles hanging over the rim on the outside of the bucket. Any oil drips remain IN the bucket that way. I keep rolls of paper towels all over my shop on paper-towel-holders in handy locations. I grab a handful and wipe down the grease gun as I pull it out of the bucket and thereby keep everything clean.

If you only grease occasionally…. buy a very common name-brand of general purpose lithium grease… like Lucas or Pennzoil or Valvoline…. and you’ll never be faced with incompatibility issues the rest of your life…. they’ll be here a long time. Buy a “designer” grease and you’ll have more difficulty…. if not this year…then next or the one after that.

Use lithium on everything except pins/bushings (such as the loader) and Moly on pins/bushings and you’ll be “set”. (That Lucas Red N Tacky may seep oil but it’s GOOD oil. and clearly has plenty of it….and THAT’s good also. Buy a case of paper towels and grease more often.)