I had an epiphany

[skeets]

No one has ever said I was the brightest bulb in the string. But today while on a walk I found a big cherry branch broke off and was in my apple trees. I got 4 pieces 12 to 14 feet long and 8 to 16 inches round,, good fire wood,, Anyways since it was on the other side of the fence line and on a hill I cut it in pieces and went to pull them out,,, Hummmm front end was heading to the sky. ( Changed my drawers afterwards I must add)
But I will be darned if I leave them to rot! Well the grapple is on and I figured WTH, chain around the grapple and ease back ,take up a strain and see what happens,,, It moved like I wanted it to !! And I wasnt all puckered up.. I took all the extra chain off and hooked back to the grapple frame lifted the end of the log and BACKED up and out of the hill side easy peeze,, except for the chestnut limbs the ROPS caught. I know it wasnt built for this but slow and easy and it worked just fine,,, Now if you will excuse me I really need to shower, and change my breeches.

 

[Henro]

No one has ever said I was the brightest bulb in the string. But today while on a walk I found a big cherry branch broke off and was in my apple trees. I got 4 pieces 12 to 14 feet long and 8 to 16 inches round,, good fire wood,, Anyways since it was on the other side of the fence line and on a hill I cut it in pieces and went to pull them out,,, Hummmm front end was heading to the sky. ( Changed my drawers afterwards I must add)
But I will be darned if I leave them to rot! Well the grapple is on and I figured WTH, chain around the grapple and ease back ,take up a strain and see what happens,,, It moved like I wanted it to !! And I wasnt all puckered up.. I took all the extra chain off and hooked back to the grapple frame lifted the end of the log and BACKED up and out of the hill side easy peeze,, except for the chestnut limbs the ROPS caught. I know it wasnt built for this but slow and easy and it worked just fine,,, Now if you will excuse me I really need to shower, and change my breeches.

I do not clearly see the picture. We’re you pulling from somewhere other r
than the draw bar?

 

[skeets]

I was pulling up hill, and the log hooked on something soooooo up since I was already pointed the fulcrum just shifted a bit more, and no sir you wont find old dad pulling off anything else but the draw bar ! I dont know who borrowed my skidding sled nose but they sure do make a difference, guess I need to get to the scrap yard and look for stuff

 

[GeoHorn]

Skeets…. sometimes it’s just hard to read and understand what another person puts in writing what they’re actually THINKING and visualizing…. It took me 3 times to read thru this before I finally visualized that you were attempting to drag logs which got hung up and nearly flipped you over baackwards!!! YEP! That’ll get your attention!

I had to get my little 9N up a really REALLY steep hill once and I BACKED up the hill it made me so nervous just visualizing flipping over.

An old car or truck hood can make a good log-drag. Glad you’re OK.

 

[skeets]

Yeppers. that makes the hair stand up for sure. We started with an old car hood years ago, then we came up with a sled nose for lack of a beter term and that was an amazing difference. Anything that keeps the end of the log from digging in. But I guess it wasnt anything new cause there are tons of them on line,, lol

 

[D2Cat]

I'm still trying to figure out how the cherry limb got in the apple tree. Or how it impact the story?

 

[GeoHorn]

Thread-Hijack: When I was a Boy Scout counselor at El Rancho Cima (Wimberly/Blanco Texas area) back in the mid-60s … campsite 3 had a unique tree that I liked to puzzle the scouts who were taking Forestry Merit Badge with.. It was a common American Elm…. and one limb hung down sufficiently low to allow easy access to a leaf for identification purposes.
The “trick” was that every scout would MIS-identify that tree as a Post Oak. I’d have them look at the bark…the shape of the tree from a distance, etc etc…. before I pointed out to them that the limb from which they’d grabbed a leaf exited the trunk at an odd angle…

Then we’d all have a laugh….. That Elm at one time in it’s life had apparently suffered injury which led to the main trunk rotting out hollow….. into which a squirrel or other animal (or maybe high winds)…. must have deposited a Post Oak Acorn into the “hollow”…which took root and grew up/out-of that Elm’s hollow trunk…. but the Elm recovered and repaired itself over the years closing up the hollow trunk surrounding that Oak tree growing inside.

You have to imagine an Elm with one, large oak-limb growing out of the side of a slightly-crooked trunk of a well-developed mature Elm.

I recently was shopping in Academy Sports and fell into conversation with a retired Boy Scout administrator who informed me that 2500-acre El Ranch Cima had recently sold for $52M. It was a sad feeling of loss for me because my Dad had been our Asst-Scout Master for years and made certain our troop went to El Rancho Cima every summer and when I became too old to be a scout I worked as summer employment as a counselor at that camp teaching swimming, rowing, canoeing, life-saving, geology, astronomy, forestry etc merit badges. It was a sweet memory for my 11-19 age years.

When I heard of the Boy Scout scandals involving problems with abuse it really infuriated me… and I suppose that the organizations’ recent bankruptcy over those scandals led to the sell-off of that valuable property. If I weren’t law-abiding I’d have a solution for adults who do that to kids.

Sorry for the hi-jack….but the cherry tree limb in the apple tree brought back that Oak in an Elm. LOL

 

[Henro]

I was pulling up hill, and the log hooked on something soooooo up since I was already pointed the fulcrum just shifted a bit more, and no sir you wont find old dad pulling off anything else but the draw bar ! I dont know who borrowed my skidding sled nose but they sure do make a difference, guess I need to get to the scrap yard and

I’m still missing something. I assume you were using a chain? What was the chain connected to on the tractor?

 

[skeets]

chain on end of log,,,, chain attached to draw bar ,,,, tractor going up hill ,,, with the front end higher that the traction wheels it changed the center of gravity, and the whole chasses began to rotate onthe rear wheels bringing the front end upwards ,,, by changing the pulling ration of the pulling wheels,, the rear weighing more than the front, thus all the weigh was transferred to the up hill side and changing the center of gravity on the machine

 

[Henro]

chain on end of log,,,, chain attached to draw bar ,,,, tractor going up hill ,,, with the front end higher that the traction wheels it changed the center of gravity, and the whole chasses began to rotate onthe rear wheels bringing the front end upwards ,,, by changing the pulling ration of the pulling wheels,, the rear weighing more than the front, thus all the weigh was transferred to the up hill side and changing the center of gravity on the machine

Then it seems you must have been using a 3PH “draw bar” like the following:

These are dangerous as they can cause the front end of the tractor to lift off the ground, dependent upon position of the 3PH. (Higher = more dangerous)

A proper draw bar attaches to the tractor frame BELOW the rear axle, like in the following photo:

A draw bar like this (a standard draw bar) will not cause the front wheels of the tractor to lift off the ground.

 

[D2Cat]

Then it seems you must have been using a 3PH “draw bar” like the following:

View attachment 61920

These are dangerous as they can cause the front end of the tractor to lift off the ground, dependent upon position of the 3PH. (Higher = more dangerous)

A proper draw bar attaches to the tractor frame BELOW the rear axle, like in the following photo:

View attachment 61919

A draw bar like this (a standard draw bar) will not cause the front wheels of the tractor to lift off the ground.

All depends on the slope of the hill !!

 

[skeets]

OK my friend, have you ever been to or seen tractor pulls? Why do you think the front ends come up off the ground? Same reason power to the rear wheels over comes the weight on the front end and no I was hooked to the OEM bar and pulling up hill

 

[GeoHorn]

What it “depends” on …. is the 3-pt hitch….which will RISE easily. If the front end becomes “light” and rises…the 3-pt has NO DOWN pressure and will allow the pulled-load to raise the 3-pt until the tractor FLIPS.

ONLY pull from the DRAWBAR.

 

[Henro]

OK my friend, have you ever been to or seen tractor pulls? Why do you think the front ends come up off the ground? Same reason power to the rear wheels over comes the weight on the front end and no I was hooked to the OEM bar and pulling up hill

Interesting. But the physics of the layout of the draw bar being below the axle seems to want to prevent that.

Wonder what the reason might be? I doubt the hook up to the factory draw bar is the root cause.

As far as tractor pulls go, I do not have a clue...be interesting to see where the draw bars are located on those competition tractors. Almost certainly in the optimum position for maximum traction, as compared to factory tractor draw bars that are probably positioned for safe operation over maximum traction.

Not doubting your experience, just trying to understand what the root cause might have been...

 

[Henro]

What it “depends” on …. is the 3-pt hitch….which will RISE easily. If the front end becomes “light” and rises…the 3-pt has NO DOWN pressure and will allow the pulled-load to raise the 3-pt until the tractor FLIPS.

ONLY pull from the DRAWBAR.

But skeets indicated he WAS pulling from the factory draw bar...

Interesting about the 3PH rising if the geometry is such to cause that to happen with the pulling force. Never thought about that myself. Great insight.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Seems like if the tractor is trying to pull an immovable object from the draw bar, either the gears that make the rear wheels turn will cause the wheels to slip or the tractor to pivot around the rear axle. I saw a diagram once showing angles, hill would change direction of pull and increase weight on rear tires, increasing traction.

 

[bird dogger]

Seems like if the tractor is trying to pull an immovable object from the draw bar, either the gears that make the rear wheels turn will cause the wheels to slip or the tractor to pivot around the rear axle. I saw a diagram once showing angles, hill would change direction of pull and increase weight on rear tires, increasing traction.

Exactly, and it can all take place in under a second. Doesn't leave much time to react. I remember seeing videos of that in farm tractor safety classes when we were kids.

Edit: Having passed that safety class as a kid was a requirement by some farmers for us to work for them. I don't think those classes even exist anymore.

 

[Fordtech86]

Explains why the old tractor dad had would only pull a wheelie if I let it roll backwards down hill and dropped the clutch it wouldn’t do that on flat ground.

@NHSleddog can we get another picture please?

 

[Henro]

Seems like if the tractor is trying to pull an immovable object from the draw bar, either the gears that make the rear wheels turn will cause the wheels to slip or the tractor to pivot around the rear axle. I saw a diagram once showing angles, hill would change direction of pull and increase weight on rear tires, increasing traction.

This is a good point!

Force pulling on the draw bar (it being below the rear axle) will cause the front of the tractor to be pushed down.

But as sheepfarmer says, if the rear wheels do not lose traction, a force lifting the front of the tractor will be developed by the engine power to the rear wheels.

IF the rotational force of the tires on the rear axle exceeds the force generated by the pull on the drawbar, which is below the axle, the front of the tractor will lift.

This must of been the situation that Skeets experieced.

Do not recall this ever being pointed out in safety literature I have read in the past, related to the reasons why using a drawbar is the safe way to pull something...

I think we have the answer to what Skeets experienced!

Added thought: As the front of the tractor lifts, due to the geometry, the force generated by the draw bar increases, so there is a bit of self correcting action that occurs, tending to oppose the lift of the front of the tractor...how much this help, no clue here...

 

[bucktail]

Interesting. But the physics of the layout of the draw bar being below the axle seems to want to prevent that.

Wonder what the reason might be? I doubt the hook up to the factory draw bar is the root cause.

As far as tractor pulls go, I do not have a clue...be interesting to see where the draw bars are located on those competition tractors. Almost certainly in the optimum position for maximum traction, as compared to factory tractor draw bars that are probably positioned for safe operation over maximum traction.

Not doubting your experience, just trying to understand what the root cause might have been...

The force creating the moment comes from the bottom of the tire not the axle.