Winter Storm

[WFM]

I see Texas is devastated by the cold and storm and millions with out power.
I grew up here in the north and as soon as I owned my own place I bought a Honda 5000 watt generator. Power is out becouse of storms or drunk drivers hitting a power pole. I plug it in and life goes on. I always have four 5 gallon cans for real gas in the shed just in case. And have added a larger generator to run my business as its needed.
I do know Texas has hurricans a few times a year. I can't believe folks arn't more prepared
in todays world.

 

[85Hokie]

We are getting a good bit of ice tonight here in Virginia ..... went out and cranked up both of my generators.
Hope I do not need either of them.

Was gonna get the round one vaccine today....... of course - they ran out of ......NOPE not the vaccine, rather the needles and hypos!!!! Damn ..... o well

 

[Roadworthy]

From what I've read Texas is a unique situation. I this country there are three power grids - an eastern grid, a western grid, and a Texas grid. There were some technical / political issues there. It was NOT just the cold. Their water problems were to a large extent caused by the cold - pipes breaking, etc.

 

[dochsml]

It has been a perfect storm here in TX (aware of the pun). It's easy to blame the grid that has its shortcomings, but there are also lots of other factors in play here. Basically everyone has either electric heat or a heat pump that doesn't work much below freezing and has to switch on the emergency electric heat. Before I moved out to the country, my old house had only an AC unit with 100% electric heat. It's basically like firing up a toaster oven and putting a fan behind it. People in states where it gets cold have much better ways to heat their house than this. Also, houses aren't built here with pipes freezing in mind. Basements are non-existent, so pipes are run either under slabs or along outside walls. Some houses have water heaters inside garages or attic spaces that are not heated. I have lived in three states (PA, VA, TX) and it seems the further south you go, the more lax the building techniques in terms of preparedness for such events. I am just glad that I decided to move to the country to a place with propane heat so my little generator can run the thermostat and blower fan!

 

[Old_Paint]

The problem with having an otherwise reliable power grid designed for warm climates is that people that do go out and buy a generator may not have to use it for YEARS. So, when they do need it, it doesn't run. That's an expensive piece of equipment that's going to need maintenance cycles to guarantee the carb doesn't get plugged up or injectors seized from not running. The worst thing that can happen to an Otto cycle engine is to be left sitting and not run on a frequent basis. This causes all kinds of problems including lubrication failures. And prices for cheap ones that may only last a few seasons are still prohibitive. A pad-mounted unit with a modern autotransfer switch can typically be configured to start once a week and some even have a different cycle to actually force a transfer as part of the routine cycling. For a while, here in Alabama, Southern Natural Gas was offering single residence gas fired generation as an alternative to electric utility power. I don't have the numbers, but the idea never really gained momentum. It included a transfer switch for generator failure conditions, meaning you still had to pay a monthly metering charge to the power company. That minimum charge plus the cost of gas pretty much meant there was no advantage at all in having your own generator unless you were going to use it for standby. SoNat dropped that offer, but we still see some packages from Generac on more expensive homes here. Those are expensive. We RARELY have outages here, maybe once or twice a year, and that's usually because a squirrel commits hari kari on a transformer in the neighborhood. BOOM. We've got fossil plants, natural gas plants, hydro, nuclear, and alternative sources here on a pretty reliable grid. Half hour later, APCO's got a lineman out popping in a new fuse and away we go. Our winters are rarely severe enough we can't just rug up and wait it out. I've got a big propane burner for home brewing, so I can heat enough water for baths in a 10 gallon pot. There's enough urban sprawl around us we don't have to go far to access anything we might need before the lights are back on. To me, the worst time for an outage is summer because freezers start thawing after about 24 hours, and I don't like losing all that food. But, I also don't like spending a bunch of money for a generator that's going to be a shop ornament until I need it, and then it probably won't start. Now that I have a tractor, I'm leaning more toward a 3PH generator. No maintenance required, especially if I get one with sealed bearings. Even that, though, will be something that has to be kept dry, and will take up storage space until it's needed. UNLESS, I get smart and build storage for it close to the connection point.

Has anyone done anything like add a port on a stove pipe for a wood heater to make a convenient place to vent exhaust fumes in a shop without leaving doors open? Just thinking out loud, but when I build my shop, I want to put an old wood stove in it that belonged to my folks and that I probably split a thousand cords for when I was a kid. One of the things I inherited after my mother passed away would be nice to use again, if only on occasion. I'm just curious though, how hard it would be to put some sort of header together to vent both the stove and the tractor, if I wanted to leave the tractor running in the shed (where I can also keep the generator if I do that). I could back-feed the house from the shed pretty easy for emergency purposes and keep most of the house powered up. I've already swapped over to LED lighting. I can turn on every light in the house for less energy than it took to run one 100W light bulb now. I know I'm not running the dryer or the HVAC, or even the water heater unless everything else is turned off, so I won't need a big generator. Just one that will stand up to 3 or 4 electric blankets if absolutely necessary.

 

[GeoHorn]

I see Texas is devastated by the cold and storm and millions with out power.
I grew up here in the north and as soon as I owned my own place I bought a Honda 5000 watt generator. Power is out becouse of storms or drunk drivers hitting a power pole. I plug it in and life goes on. I always have four 5 gallon cans for real gas in the shed just in case. And have added a larger generator to run my business as its needed.
I do know Texas has hurricans a few times a year. I can't believe folks arn't more prepared
in todays world.

Too much “caliFornication” going on around here. Real Texans know how to survive.... despite our politicians who created our “Electric Reliability Council Of Texas” which is UN-reliable and headed by a guy who lives in MICHIGAN.

Ol’Paint: I keep 40+ gallons of aviation gasoline in my hangar/shop for airplane use but it has NO ethanol or paint-thinners, etc. in it..... it’s REAL GASOLINE like the Good Ol’ Days....and will keep for years. (Airplanes demand reliability and often sit for many months without running with old gas in their tanks....but are expected to start up and fly with people strapped into them.) My generators are stored with it in their tanks and they will fire-up and run instantly even if it’s the first attempt in over a year. (BTDT). My gens are not young... they are cheap “Chonda” types bought in ‘08 and 2010 so they’re over ten yrs old and suffer no Carb-rot. (I do open the plug and drain the carb-bowls when placing them into storage.)
Go down to your local small-airport to buy AvGas. Just don’t run it in engines with EPA equipt because AvGas does have lead.

 

[Borane4]

I see Texas is devastated by the cold and storm and millions with out power. I can't believe folks arn't more prepared
in todays world.

Maybe. But the weather here in TX has NEVER been seen before. Never since the late 1800s when they started keeping records has it been this cold for this long. Are you prepared where you live for tornadoes, softball hail, 120F heat for 3 months?

 

[GeoHorn]

Maybe. But the weather here in TX has NEVER been seen before. Never since the late 1800s when they started keeping records has it been this cold for this long. Are you prepared where you live for tornadoes, softball hail, 120F heat for 3 months?

SOFT-ball hail..??? There’s no reason to misconstrue things for him! Tell him the Texas-TRUTH! HARDBALL hail..... the size of PEACHES... and WATERMELONS!

 

[PoTreeBoy]

From what I've read Texas is a unique situation. I this country there are three power grids - an eastern grid, a western grid, and a Texas grid. There were some technical / political issues there. It was NOT just the cold. Their water problems were to a large extent caused by the cold - pipes breaking, etc.

There are a few government regulatory agencies that historically worked pretty well - the electrical power regulation being one. I lived in Houston from 1974 until 1995. Houston was served by Houston Light and Power and that was a period of incredible growth. To meet the growth one of HL&Ps projects was the South Texas Nuclear Project (Plant?). The city of Austin was a co-owner. The project, managed by HL&P, experienced huge cost overruns (surprised?). Austin, home of the state capital and related politicians, sued to keep Austin from paying their share of the overruns. Somehow in all of this, HL&P was forced into bankruptcy and deregulation of the electrical supply was instituted. Generation, transmission and distribution businesses were separated. At one time, Houston residents had the option of purchasing from maybe six 'utilities', with different rate plans. Several of these went under.
I think the gaps in the system left by separating the overall responsibility of delivering reliable energy (to save cost) are the root cause of Texas' recent problem.
Now we have national deregulation and seem to be hell-bent on electrifying everything - housing, transportation, etc. Does anyone realize what growth in infrastructure this will entail? And we're going to rely on politicians, lawyers and accountants to resolve the problem? I think we are just starting to see the problem ahead. Be prepared.
Note: these are just my rambling observations and opinions and show my prejudicises. I think both political parties share the blame.

 

[WFM]

I'm not sure how'd you prepare for a tornado ? Store drinking water and run to the basement.
Softball size hail. Run to the basement again I guess.
We do get hot weather and we turn on the heat pumps and stay cool.
Everyone has different ideas of whats necessary to feel comfortable in life. Being able to survive in times of no power and cold weather are important to me and most other yankees I know.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

I'm not sure how'd you prepare for a tornado ?

Install a tornado shelter - in ground or above ground. At least tornadoes are short duration and limited area (no consolation if you're in that area of course). Moving from Houston, Texas to west Tennessee, I found I had moved from hurricane country to tornado alley. I prefer the latter.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Has anyone done anything like add a port on a stove pipe for a wood heater to make a convenient place to vent exhaust fumes in a shop without leaving doors open?

NO!
You can not smartly or safely do that.
I won't even bother getting into all the negative things that could happen from doing something like that!
Even putting a dedicated pipe for the tractor is a huge NO NO!

 

[skeets]

Wolfman is telling you right,, BAD JUJU,, just get the right size hose and run the exhaust out side under the door,, BUT NEVER NEVER NEVER connect anything to your flue pipe other than the appliances it is designed for

 

[Daren Todd]

I'm not sure how'd you prepare for a tornado ? Store drinking water and run to the basement.
Softball size hail. Run to the basement again I guess.
We do get hot weather and we turn on the heat pumps and stay cool.
Everyone has different ideas of whats necessary to feel comfortable in life. Being able to survive in times of no power and cold weather are important to me and most other yankees I know.

Hidey holes (storm shelter). Phone will scream at you if your emergency alerts are set up Climb in and wait.

After that, it's hope your stuff is still there after it goes by

We have a small generator that will keep the fridge and freezer working. As well as a few lights. We can run the fan for the fire place insert if we need heat. And kept the phones charged.

Cooked our food on the grill till the power was back up a week later after the two tornados we went through. Thankfully they missed us. First one passed 2/10 of a mile from the house. Second one was 6/10 of a mile from the house.

Still had running water, so cold showers and the toilets would flush.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

We've had a very small generator that would run the pellet stove, TV, and a light bulb or two, so we were warm, entertained and wouldn't trip over the wolves to get to the potty... OHHHH Wait... no power to the well... eeek.
After many years of not having a big generator, I finally broke down and got one.

The new house build will have a whole house generator and automatic transfer switch, so it's all set up for that, but in the mean time I got a 9KW Portable to do the trick, so far we've lost power only for very short periods, but the time will come.

 

[Old_Paint]

NO!
You can not smartly or safely do that.
I won't even bother getting into all the negative things that could happen from doing something like that!
Even putting a dedicated pipe for the tractor is a huge NO NO!

Someone better explain this dedicated pipe thing to the Anniston Army Depot and the Marine Corps Logistics Base in Barstow. They have twin stacks at each engine dyno stand stuck through the roof. Ever heard a 1790 Continental Air-Cooled engine at full throttle? Or a turbine from an M1A2? Vented, right through the roof. Every hospital in this area has a dedicated pipe (or two) stuck through the wall for each of their generators which are typically installed in very clean environments inside. Most backup/peaking generator packages have a pipe running through the roof and into the muffler. I worked in one building that had a vent for a strapped down F-35, basically a very LARGE square pipe with little more than a nozzle behind the bird. A data center I've done service for has 7 generators sitting side by side in an underground installation, meaning dedicated exhausts to vent them. Most industrial diesel powered fire pump systems are mounted inside with the exhausts run through the roof. So why is a dedicated pipe bad juju? I'm plenty smart to know that for air/fumes out, you have to have air/no fumes back in, or you crumple the building like a beer can. I can't see a pipe stuck out the shed door being smarter than a permanent installation out of the way and reducing asphyxiation risks by putting the outlet up high. By definition, a flexible pipe stuck out the door is still a dedicated pipe that has no other purpose than to ventilate tractor fumes. My primary concern would be enough cool air coming in to keep the radiator/engine from overheating. But, I'd already considered before I asked the posted question.

I'm not arguing to prove I think I'm smarter than anyone else, just relating what I've seen on diesel generators up to 2 MW and as long as my house. Even Jenbacher natural gas fueled generators have big shiny mufflers on top. That's a dedicated pipe going through the roof. Imagine if you will, a tiny home with a 2MW 15KV generator and all the support system and switchgear in it. A tugboat's engine is in the bottom of the boat, but the exhaust comes out the very top. That goes through several floors and out the roof. If the tugboat isn't moving, how is that different from a diesel running in a shed? If you're worried about CO/CO2 asphyxiation, I go through that safety training every year too. I've worked in some very dangerous confined spaces in my life. I'm not writing this because I'm stupid enough to kill myself or have no experience with ventilation.

Can't be done is not in my vocabulary. I'll just have to read up on local fire codes, etc. The idea/solution may not as simple or as cost efficient as I would like, and might even dissuade me from doing the deed, but any indoor mounted engine or fuel consumer has to have the exhaust vented, and I'd rather provide for that when I build the shed rather than have go back and make a modification. Even the wood stove will need ventilation to prevent CO/CO2 buildup. If I ran my kerosene heater out there, I'd make sure it was well ventilated. I get it. I can't see much difference in a diesel engine mounted on tires and one sitting on concrete. It seems a lot safer/smarter to me to vent it up high so that incoming air won't bring the bad stuff back in. Even car dealerships use ventilation fans to remove CO emissions when they're tuning/testing car engines in their garages in the winter, with the doors closed. I worry more about the fumes from my little gasoline powered 22HP Husqvarna yard tractor than I do the 'bota. And I park it in my basement garage. I always open the door before cranking it, of course, or I wind up having a meeting with the manager about the smells/fumes. Even more than that, the fumes from gasoline storage concern me a lot more than anything else in a shed. The vapors from that give me the heeby jeebies a lot more than a pipe to get rid of engine exhaust.

If it's more a danger to my 'bota, then that's what I'm looking for. Back pressure? Max exhaust length?
I even have a metal squirrel cage fan I could probably use for forced extraction of the exhaust and to draw in more cooling air for the machine. I don't like nor believe in "can't be done". This is no different from a welding fume ventilation system. Same goal. Maybe the smarter thing is to mount the genny next to the outside wall with the PTO shaft accessible from outside, or in an adjacent enclosure. If I design this to be put in a single place and 'never' moved, I want it out of the way but easily accessible to use when I need it. My neighbors would probably appreciate not having to listen to the 'bota all night, and I'd appreciate having it out of sight and out of mind for would-be miscreants that like my little tractor a little too much. A running tractor with the keys in it says "STEAL ME" very loudly.

 

[WFM]

A local variety store here had there generator hook up on the front wall of the store. The owner had a kubota with a pto generator and would back up to the store and let it sit and idle. It ran everything pizza ovens and gas pumps in the worst blizzards we had with power outages. The coffee was always on for the plow crews to stop.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Old_Paint,

All those situations and places that you point out that they have piped exhaust, I'll bet they went though engineering departments, inspections, and certifications to make sure they were safe.

You said I want to pipe my diesel exhaust pipe in with my wood stove pipe, that was my number 1 NO!
I didn't want to get into the why nots but you seem hard pressed to prove me wrong.

1: What happens when the Exhaust from the Diesel when the wood stove isn't running?
Is it going to magically always want to go up and out... Nope so your really calmly working at the bench when bam, your head hits the bench, its ok though as you're asleep and you'll be dead shortly anyways.

2: So you been running the diesel for quite some time and decide that it's getting a bit chilly in the shop, throw in some paper and wood light it up and BAM end up laying in the front yard wondering WTH happened, well this would be called combustible carbon and combustible petroleum build up and remains.

3: So you've not blow the shop sky high from past burns, but one day when it's cold you get that wood stove fired up and WOW is it getting warm in here... That would be the stack fire that is now accelerating out of control, just like those fancy jet engines you noted, and about 15 min later your again in your yard thinking WTH happened.

4: ( Neighbors I've had in the past ), You've been burning this Wood stove/ diesel fuel combo for a while and the neighbor thinks man that thing is noisy and stinky and calls every know authority and person he can think of, next thing you know you've got the local health board, the EPA, several sheriffs deputies, the fire department, three news crews, and the local right to clean air vigilantes crawling up your back side better than the doc at your last colonoscopy rendezvous.

Now as far as piping the diesel engine directly outside, better choice, but still full of issues and risks!

It doesn't sound like anything we say will change your mind.

To do something that several have told you is akin to pouring gasoline on yourself and playing with matches, tying a porkchop around your neck and playing with lions, poking a bear, on and on and on

So have at it sir and enjoy and/or regret your decision to do it.

 

[WFM]

I reenacted old thread. Yes its always good to be prepared. I'm guessing we could last a few months without leaving the homestead here. I'd miss my green bananas. But lots B&M beans and soups and the freezer stocked with lots of menus frozen pizzas to scallops, blueberries ect. Credit to my girlfriend for keeping us stocked.
Gas and venison and ammo I get the credit.

 

[Fordtech86]

I reenacted old thread. Yes its always good to be prepared. I'm guessing we could last a few months without leaving the homestead here. I'd miss my green bananas. But lots B&M beans and soups and the freezer stocked with lots of menus frozen pizzas to scallops, blueberries ect. Credit to my girlfriend for keeping us stocked.
Gas and venison and ammo I get the credit.

The masses aren’t prepared, and that’s the scary part…