Are you going to.....

[MNVikingsGuy]

I do not like that employers get to dictate health decisions. I think those decisions should be left to the individual and his/her medical professional.

I can see your sentiment but in fact either way someone is deciding for someone else - if the only two perspectives are employer X and employee Smith, then I agree with you, but in fact employee, Smith's decision has an effect on co-worker Johnson (who maybe has a medical condition that prevents vaccination), and nurse/doctor Henderson (who must treat Smith, yet return home to their families with whatever they may catch), etc. I am generally a Libertarian with strong support for individual liberty - but infectious diseases don't care about liberties or political theory and can not entirely be governed by personal choice - health of the "herd" has to be a consideration too. Of course, finding the balance between herd supporting rules and political hubris is not always that simple - especially these days.

 

[armylifer]

I can see your sentiment but in fact either way someone is deciding for someone else - if the only two perspectives are employer X and employee Smith, then I agree with you, but in fact employee, Smith's decision has an effect on co-worker Johnson (who maybe has a medical condition that prevents vaccination), and nurse/doctor Henderson (who must treat Smith, yet return home to their families with whatever they may catch), etc. I am generally a Libertarian with strong support for individual liberty - but infectious diseases don't care about liberties or political theory and can not entirely be governed by personal choice - health of the "herd" has to be a consideration too. Of course, finding the balance between herd supporting rules and political hubris is not always that simple - especially these days.

This could be turned around and stated as, employee Smith, who is strong and healthy is being affected by co-worker Johnson, who is an unhealthy former smoker who has co-morbidities, dictating what employee Smith does with his body. The weak, scared little Johnson should not even be in the workplace. He is affecting the strong and should be quarantined for the sake of the healthy.

 

[sheepfarmer]

I can see your sentiment but in fact either way someone is deciding for someone else - if the only two perspectives are employer X and employee Smith, then I agree with you, but in fact employee, Smith's decision has an effect on co-worker Johnson (who maybe has a medical condition that prevents vaccination), and nurse/doctor Henderson (who must treat Smith, yet return home to their families with whatever they may catch), etc. I am generally a Libertarian with strong support for individual liberty - but infectious diseases don't care about liberties or political theory and can not entirely be governed by personal choice - health of the "herd" has to be a consideration too. Of course, finding the balance between herd supporting rules and political hubris is not always that simple - especially these days.

I “think” that between the medical profession’s operational rule of “do no harm” and the legal ramifications of trying to force someone to do something to their body that they don’t want to, that there will be little forcing of people with good reasons to take the vaccine. Whether you can continue in your present job is another issue. I can imagine that a nursing home might reasonably require employees that have patient contact to be up to date on their vaccinations, but not the ones that are outside cutting the grass. Just my opinion though.

 

[Russell King]

Historically, pandemics on average last 18-24 months. This summer we will be hitting the 18 month mark so there is a good chance if we do nothing, we will be seeing the pandemic coming to an end anyway.

Assuming that is generally true from historical perspective I wonder how the mandated curve flattening measures may effect the length of the natural process of dying out, but throwing the vaccine in the middle of that will confound any natural path to the end. Which I see as a blessing.

 

[i7win7]

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[Bmyers]

Assuming that is generally true from historical perspective I wonder how the mandated curve flattening measures may effect the length of the natural process of dying out, but throwing the vaccine in the middle of that will confound any natural path to the end. Which I see as a blessing.

There are several factors that can change the course, the first being how we are able to travel around the world in hours verses months and years. This is the first factor that changed how the pandemic will respond/last.

The flattening of the curve has been measures used throughout history, so that factor will not change much. Just as in the past, you had communities/kingdoms go into 'lockdown' and just like today, you had people disregarding and moving about. So, I don't expect to see a significant difference because of the lockdown. I am of the opinion that the politicians will try to sell us on how because of their great wisdom and enforcing the lockdowns that they saved world.

The vaccine is an interesting variable to add in. Yet, I'm not sure that it will be distributed in enough quantity to make a significant difference compared to the normal life cycle. If we follow countries that aren't getting the vaccine or not at large quantities we might be able to see if the vaccine has an effect on the overall timeline.

I find the pandemic interesting from a historical aspect. I tell everyone that we will have a better idea of what we did right, what we did wrong, and what we did that didn't matter in 5 to 10 years.

I don't want to be insensitive to the impact. The fact on how some families have lost love ones, how others have lost jobs and businesses, and how almost no one has gone through this without some type of impact. From all aspects, this was an historical event that we all are going through and will be study in years to come.

 

[MNVikingsGuy]

This could be turned around and stated as, employee Smith, who is strong and healthy is being affected by co-worker Johnson, who is an unhealthy former smoker who has co-morbidities, dictating what employee Smith does with his body. The weak, scared little Johnson should not even be in the workplace. He is affecting the strong and should be quarantined for the sake of the healthy.

One can always spin the extreme. But it could just as easily be the co-morbid Smith that is both prone to catching but refusing to vaccinate, and Johnson having a prexisting health issue unrelated to their choices such as asthma.

And in either case, why should Johnson have to "hide at home" when a vaccinated workplace is perfectly safe for him. If Smith is so self-important that Smith cannot be bothered by the well-being of others in the workplace then Smith should choose to be self-employed. Once Smith decides to work in a social setting (any workplace other than his own) then Smith accepts some minimal social expectations - vaccination being one of them. Smith has the freedom to do his own thing, but he does not have the right to force his wishes on his employer (who risks a business being shut down due to a covid hotspot arising and litigation from other co-workers exposed) and his co-workers. Liberty comes with responsibilities - not seeing where Smith would be living up to his. Somewhere along the line, "I should be free", has turned into, "others must accommodate how I define free for me".

This is not just about new vaccines, we have had employees quit and then try to sue us because they were required to wear safety harnesses in elevated situations - because apparently "real men" don't wear safety gear. Frankly, if I were king they could work without it if they want to, let Darwin clean up the gene pool - but don't wear the harness, then you can accept no medical coverage, no life insurance, no worker's comp, no suing your employer or the equipment vendors, no disability benefits and no financial assistance for your family -- then it really would be your choice. Too often we want pseudo-freedom back up by everybody else's time and money.

 

[Surfer]

I am going to get the vaccine with no hesitation. I was given all kinds of shots while in the army prior to deployments. Nothing bad came of all those inoculations except the third arm growing out of my back. Not really, the army would of loved a third arm on me. get another 50% increase in work out of me.

 

[armylifer]

One can always spin the extreme. But it could just as easily be the co-morbid Smith that is both prone to catching but refusing to vaccinate, and Johnson having a prexisting health issue unrelated to their choices such as asthma.

And in either case, why should Johnson have to "hide at home" when a vaccinated workplace is perfectly safe for him. If Smith is so self-important that Smith cannot be bothered by the well-being of others in the workplace then Smith should choose to be self-employed. Once Smith decides to work in a social setting (any workplace other than his own) then Smith accepts some minimal social expectations - vaccination being one of them. Smith has the freedom to do his own thing, but he does not have the right to force his wishes on his employer (who risks a business being shut down due to a covid hotspot arising and litigation from other co-workers exposed) and his co-workers. Liberty comes with responsibilities - not seeing where Smith would be living up to his. Somewhere along the line, "I should be free", has turned into, "others must accommodate how I define free for me".

This is not just about new vaccines, we have had employees quit and then try to sue us because they were required to wear safety harnesses in elevated situations - because apparently "real men" don't wear safety gear. Frankly, if I were king they could work without it if they want to, let Darwin clean up the gene pool - but don't wear the harness, then you can accept no medical coverage, no life insurance, no worker's comp, no suing your employer or the equipment vendors, no disability benefits and no financial assistance for your family -- then it really would be your choice. Too often we want pseudo-freedom back up by everybody else's time and money.

Now who's talking extremes? No matter what the so called benefits (NOT) of getting this unproven rushed to market vaccine are, no one has a right to force me to get it. I, however, do have the right to force those that are susceptible to getting the virus, into lockdown. It happened before in history and it will happen again once the masses realize what is being forced upon them. I for one, would gladly participate in detaining and locking down the weaker of us that are the real danger to society.

 

[Daren Todd]

I “think” that between the medical profession’s operational rule of “do no harm” and the legal ramifications of trying to force someone to do something to their body that they don’t want to, that there will be little forcing of people with good reasons to take the vaccine. Whether you can continue in your present job is another issue. I can imagine that a nursing home might reasonably require employees that have patient contact to be up to date on their vaccinations, but not the ones that are outside cutting the grass. Just my opinion though.

Wifes work informed employees that they would be removed from the schedule if they refused to take the vaccine. Then made said employees sign a waiver saying they were voluntarily taking the vaccine.

 

[armylifer]

Wifes work informed employees that they would be removed from the schedule if they refused to take the vaccine. Then made said employees sign a waiver saying they were voluntarily taking the vaccine.

It's called coercion and it will be used in various forms such as preventing you from working, traveling, or even shopping if you don't

 

[sheepfarmer]

Wifes work informed employees that they would be removed from the schedule if they refused to take the vaccine. Then made said employees sign a waiver saying they were voluntarily taking the vaccine.

Anyone quit or look for an attorney? Or ask for non patient contact position?

 

[Benhameen]

I have a friend that got the shot on Thursday(12-31) , he let me know that next Tuesday he can get me vaccinated as well, he has a lot of pull in our area. I told him I would think about it and after some thought I’m going to ask him to have father vaccinated instead of myself. I’m 43 and heathy, my dad is 67 and has numerous underlining health conditions. He is also scared to death of this deal and has barley left his house since March. I think his mental health out weighs me getting it (covid) and moving on with my live.

I’ve worked in 7 different grocery stores 5 days a week through out this entire ordeal. The one place that’s never shut down and I’ve been in contact with a whole lot of people. Last week I donated blood through the Red cross, their antibody test came back negative for me and I was kind of shocked, hard to believe I haven’t been exposed too it by now.

I’m not some crazy conspiracy theorist but the short amount of time in which this vaccine has been developed doesn’t sit well with me. As My old man said, if there’s complications from the vaccine 20 years down the road it’s not going to matter for him anyway.

So no vaccine for me for now. Maybe the third or forth version and that’s only if I’m required to get for traveling out of the country.

 

[motionclone]

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[Daren Todd]

Anyone quit or look for an attorney? Or ask for non patient contact position?

13 quit. Not many positions in a nursing home away from patients. Everyone has some form of contact.

Me personally, my inner a**hole would have come out if an employer told me I would be removed from the schedule if I didn't take the vaccine and would have pushed for it in writing.

What really chapped may fanny was threatening the employees with removal from schedule, then demanding a waiver stating you were voluntarily taking the vaccine.

And yes, I personally would have consulted a lawyer with both documents. Wife didn't want to rock the boat, and already decided she would take the vaccine.

What really gets me, is even after your vaccinated, you still have to wear the face masks, barrier cream, face shield, and all the extra PPE.

What's the point of the vaccination then?

 

[D2Cat]

Daren, if the manufacturers/CDC or others are not satisfied the product works as hoped, then they want you to keep up with plan A.

I believe we have an element involved in this whole thing that is designed to divide the people, then break them down with control, ,,,, then what?

 

[Nicfin36]

Good news is we wont need to ever get a regular flu shot anymore because apparently that doesnt exist anymore, nobody is getting sick from that..lol

Yep. I said that to a buddy of mine the other day. He said it was because Covid protocols are in place, so people are not getting the flu now. I asked him why people were still getting Covid then. Most of the time discussing this topic with my friends is like trying to catch a greased pig.

 

[armylifer]

Yep. I said that to a buddy of mine the other day. He said it was because Covid protocols are in place, so people are not getting the flu now. I asked him why people were still getting Covid then. Most of the time discussing this topic with my friends is like trying to catch a greased pig.

Fortunately, every one of my family members is a the same mind that I am. All of my friends are too. I am glad that I do not have to deal with anyone on a personal level that is a fanatic about getting this BS vaccine.

 

[sheepfarmer]

13 quit. Not many positions in a nursing home away from patients. Everyone has some form of contact.

Me personally, my inner a**hole would have come out if an employer told me I would be removed from the schedule if I didn't take the vaccine and would have pushed for it in writing.

What really chapped may fanny was threatening the employees with removal from schedule, then demanding a waiver stating you were voluntarily taking the vaccine.

And yes, I personally would have consulted a lawyer with both documents. Wife didn't want to rock the boat, and already decided she would take the vaccine.

What really gets me, is even after your vaccinated, you still have to wear the face masks, barrier cream, face shield, and all the extra PPE.

What's the point of the vaccination then?

I understand. If you ask me to do something or explain what you’d like I feel one way. If you just order me to do something I get my back up. Guess I wouldn’t have done well in the army.

Re: the PPE, they do not yet know if vaccinated people can carry enough virus in their noses or throats to infect someone else. So they are still trying to protect the residents. The vaccine trials compared two groups of people, vaccinated and ones that got a placebo, for severe side effects and cases of moderate to severe (or at least detectable) Covid, and the trials for that were successful at protecting the vaccinated volunteer. However, as far as I know the trials did not include routine nasal swabbing to check for asymptomatic infections or infections that were only limited to the nose and throat.

The way I understand it is the vaccine is injected into the muscle and carried throughout the body to various sites where antibodies and immune cells are made. The nasal epithelium forms a barrier between inside and outside, and its cells may be accessible to some immune cells and antibodies, but perhaps less so than cells under the epithelium or the lungs . But the nasal epithelial cells can host viral particles and allow them to reproduce and be shed. So the degree and how fast reproduction is shut down in the cells of the nasal and throat epithelia by the vaccinated immune system is not yet known.

I will take the vaccination given the information I have. Nothing is certain in medicine, but my chances with the vaccine are better than without.

 

[RCW]

I will get it ASAP.

Never got flu vaccine until my young daughters (now 28), gave ole Dad something.

I deal with people in (relatively) close proximity 8-9 hours everyday at work....

I’m not 20-something anymore....

I don’t want to find out about a comorbitity I’m not aware of.....

I’ve never had an adverse reaction to prior vaccinations, including Rabies...

I’m concerned COVID will get me before the vaccine is available...

Several of my acquaintances of mine aren’t available to make this decision.....

My thought process.....