COVID-19 Stuff

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motionclone

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This is an interesting you tube video. It discusses the air borne spread of exhaled droplets and aerosols, and yes mc, 6 feet was an arbitrary number, and here's why.


She is very clear about what is known and what is not known. I think this explains the bar incident mentioned a while back where one person unknowingly infected I think it was 16 others. Her takehome message is that buildings could be made much safer with attention to the ventilation system.
Since we are talking about being safer, why not go to the next level of safe?

Seems like with this information a high risk person should just stay home or wear a full hazmat suit in public then go home to a decontamination shower, put away the suit until next public outing. This method would be MORE safe than simple mask wearing by everyone since, as the professor says, aerosols can be smaller in size than the masks will stop.

Hazmat suit and decontamination tent= MORE SAFE for high risk folks

No Mask for low risk folks = More safe in that we will spread the virus through aerosol contamination and build a herd immunity like since the dawn of mankind.
 

sheepfarmer

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Since we are talking about being safer, why not go to the next level of safe?

Seems like with this information a high risk person should just stay home or wear a full hazmat suit in public then go home to a decontamination shower, put away the suit until next public outing. This method would be MORE safe than simple mask wearing by everyone since, as the professor says, aerosols can be smaller in size than the masks will stop.

Hazmat suit and decontamination tent= MORE SAFE for high risk folks

No Mask for low risk folks = More safe in that we will spread the virus through aerosol contamination and build a herd immunity like since the dawn of mankind.
No question high risk people should stay home. That is not the main issue in my mind. It is what is good for the community as a whole. What will disrupt the supply chain?, the economy?, the health care system?

There are enough people that share your point of view that we will be the only country essentially doing that experiment.
 

jabloomf1230

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If the idiot protesters get their wish, we won't have to worry about the cold going around. Lawlessness is heading to a place near you.

Crime statistics released by the New York Police Department (NYPD) on Thursday showed a rise in the city's murder rate during the month of May, as protests and riots continued following the death of George Floyd.

The numbers showed that murders in the city had increased by 79 percent, CBS 2 reported. Shootings went up by 64 percent and burglaries reportedly rose by 34 percent.
 

SidecarFlip

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This is an interesting you tube video. It discusses the air borne spread of exhaled droplets and aerosols, and yes mc, 6 feet was an arbitrary number, and here's why.


She is very clear about what is known and what is not known. I think this explains the bar incident mentioned a while back where one person unknowingly infected I think it was 16 others. Her takehome message is that buildings could be made much safer with attention to the ventilation system.

Like how the NYC Borough got it. The guy goes to Temple and infects almost everyone there who in turn pass it on and you have a cluster that gets bigger and bigger. Interestingly, that guy was told to stay sequestered by his doctor and didn't.
 

Boo

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Want to get through this? Quit trying to hide from it. We don't hide from the Flu each year, and we don't panic and shut down the economy for it. This is different ONLY because the media and certain political figureheads told us it is.
 
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NHSleddog

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How are they messing with the numbers? Here is one example I know a lot about.

3 Weeks ago my 80yo father broke his hip on a Friday. He didn't tell anyone, he hobbled around till Monday. One of my brothers noticed while visiting him and forced/brought him to the hospital. The same hospital my wife works at. This was considered a bad break (he broke the ball off).

As an aside, my father has never been admitted to a hospital in his life. Never, literally, he wasn't even born in a hospital.

So they show up at the ER Monday afternoon. The first thing they do is take him inside while leaving my mother and brother outside with no information, just "you can't come in". They take his temperature and find he is running at 99.8 (broken hip, swelling; fever would be expected).

This is where the fudging of the numbers start. He was admitted as a Covid patient and taken directly to the covid rule out floor.

Two days later he is operated on. Two days later he is moved to PT, two days later he is moved home.

After all that he is still listed as a covid patient.

My wife has been working at the hospital for 20 years and she said she has never seen more "changes" to how they count and list things in her time there. 20 years and never counted things the way they do and now a bunch of changes in a few months? Changes that allow inaccurate data.

So some of the fear is based on these numbers that are wrong. So in the case of my father that number WAS wrong, it STAYED wrong, and it is still WRONG. So go ahead and be afraid of them telling you my father had covid when he never did.

I asked him if I cold share this while I was visiting him yesterday. He said, "go ahead, someone should get it accurate, none of the pros did".
 
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Daren Todd

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Are they issuing a specific anti-body test on the folks that test positive but are Asymptomatic?

Seems like doing so would answer quite a few of our questions as to whether the tests are conclusive or not?

They reported on the local news friday, that out of the total number of infected for our state, 95 percent have been Asymptomatic.
 

sheepfarmer

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How are they messing with the numbers? Here is one example I know a lot about.

3 Weeks ago my 80yo father broke his hip on a Friday. He didn't tell anyone, he hobbled around till Monday. One of my brothers noticed while visiting him and forced/brought him to the hospital. The same hospital my wife works at. This was considered a bad break (he broke the ball off).

As an aside, my father has never been admitted to a hospital in his life. Never, literally, he wasn't even born in a hospital.

So they show up at the ER Monday afternoon. The first thing they do is take him inside while leaving my mother and brother outside with no information, just "you can't come in". They take his temperature and find he is running at 99.8 (broken hip, swelling; fever would be expected).

This is where the fudging of the numbers start. He was admitted as a Covid patient and taken directly to the covid rule out floor.

Two days later he is operated on. Two days later he is moved to PT, two days later he is moved home.

After all that he is still listed as a covid patient.

My wife has been working at the hospital for 20 years and she said she has never seen more "changes" to how they count and list things in her time there. 20 years and never counted things the way they do and now a bunch of changes in a few months? Changes that allow inaccurate data.

So some of the fear is based on these numbers that are wrong. So in the case of my father that number WAS wrong, it STAYED wrong, and it is still WRONG. So go ahead and be afraid of them telling you my father had covid when he never did.

I asked him if I cold share this while I was visiting him yesterday. He said, "go ahead, someone should get it accurate, none of the pros did".
Sorry to hear about your dad, as you probably know a broken hip in the elderly is problematic. I will be interested to hear what turns up in the itemized bill. It sounds as though what they actually did makes sense. Old person shows up with fever, must rule out covid, so putting him in that ward makes sense. Orthopedic surgery is often pretty bloody, don't want a covid positive person contaminating the surgery suite or the radiology equipment. So I am suposing they held off on surgery until they had his covid test back. So the price of one if not two covid tests should be on that bill. I am supposing that he must have come back covid negative. The question is how that result is entered into the state data base. If you are able to find that out, that would be interesting. If they are listing him as covid positive to make more money that is shameful. Do consider making a fuss.
 

NHSleddog

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Sorry to hear about your dad, as you probably know a broken hip in the elderly is problematic. I will be interested to hear what turns up in the itemized bill. It sounds as though what they actually did makes sense. Old person shows up with fever, must rule out covid, so putting him in that ward makes sense. Orthopedic surgery is often pretty bloody, don't want a covid positive person contaminating the surgery suite or the radiology equipment. So I am suposing they held off on surgery until they had his covid test back. So the price of one if not two covid tests should be on that bill. I am supposing that he must have come back covid negative. The question is how that result is entered into the state data base. If you are able to find that out, that would be interesting. If they are listing him as covid positive to make more money that is shameful. Do consider making a fuss.
My wife said at least half of the people that come in with something broken/sprained/swollen are running a fever and they are all admitted as covid patients. That is pure number bending BS.

To me the LAST place you want to send an 80 year old WITHOUT covid is to the covid floor. That seems like the easiest way to guarantee he gets it. He told me he was so scared he cried, which must have been the drugs because that would be the first time I heard of him crying in my lifetime.

He was brought to the ER with a broken hip and he was admitted as a covid patient. That is 100% pure BS. Sugar coat and dance around the facts all day, it doesn't change the fact that he went there without covid, and made it home without covid. Yet he is listed as a covid patient. There are people like Flip that are a little more trigger happy because of the fake number increase.
 
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sheepfarmer

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Are they issuing a specific anti-body test on the folks that test positive but are Asymptomatic?

Seems like doing so would answer quite a few of our questions as to whether the tests are conclusive or not?

They reported on the local news friday, that out of the total number of infected for our state, 95 percent have been Asymptomatic.
The problem is that the tests and testing and the definition of symptomatic are changing with time and whoever is doing a study. The news rarely if ever defines how these numbers are obtained.

"Testing positive" generally means they swabbed the back of someone's nose and viral RNA could be detected on the swab. And they are likely to be infectious. Symptomatic means someone reports one or more signs from a defined list of symptoms. In the Medscape link below, there is another link to a Nature Medicine paper in which their list of symptoms did not include covid toes or loss of sense of smell because the study was done in China early in the epidemic before those symptoms were known. So asymptomatic would be overestimated.

Then there is the problem of asymptomatic versus presymptomatic. If someone in your state is covid positive, do they come back two weeks later and repeat the swab test and ask about symptoms to see if they now have symptoms?
In the Nature paper the Chinese researchers had a captive audience so to speak since the patients were in a "central quarantine" so they could ask that and several other interesting questions. They also tried to answer your questions about follow up antibody tests. Interestingly the numbers of antibodies of two types fell pretty fast, faster for asymptomatic individuals than symptomatic. Have a look at those papers, pretty interesting, and like most research, raise the need for further studies. The Nature paper includes data to indicate asymptomatic people can transmit the virus to others. And throws a caution flag for the assumption that presence of antibodies now will provide protection in 6 months. It might not be that simple.


https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/932671
 

sheepfarmer

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My wife said at least half of the people that come in with something broken/sprained/swollen are running a fever and they are all admitted as covid patients. That is pure number bending BS.

To me the LAST place you want to send an 80 year old WITHOUT covid is to the covid floor. That seems like the easiest way to guarantee he gets it. He told me he was so scared he cried, which must have been the drugs because that would be the first time I heard of him crying in my lifetime.

He was brought to the ER with a broken hip and he was admitted as a covid patient. That is 100% pure BS. Sugar coat and dance around the facts all day, it doesn't change the fact that he went there without covid, and made it home without covid. Yet he is listed as a covid patient. There are people like Flip that are a little more trigger happy because of the fake number increase.
How fast does your hospital do a covid test? If they could do it in an hour like they do for Trump, then no need to file him in a covid rule out ward. Think of it the other way around, what if he had a fever and he had both a broken hip and previously asymptomatic covid, and they put him in the orthopedic ward and he infected a bunch of other patients, then what? Remind him that next time he breaks something to get attention right away. He might not have been running a fever.
 

NHSleddog

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How fast does your hospital do a covid test? If they could do it in an hour like they do for Trump, then no need to file him in a covid rule out ward. Think of it the other way around, what if he had a fever and he had both a broken hip and previously asymptomatic covid, and they put him in the orthopedic ward and he infected a bunch of other patients, then what? Remind him that next time he breaks something to get attention right away. He might not have been running a fever.
Yeah, I get it, you want to avoid the elephant in the room.

He was 99.8 BTW hardly feverish, but very normal for the situation. It always used to be 101 to be considered fever.
 

sheepfarmer

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Yeah, I get it, you want to avoid the elephant in the room.

He was 99.8 BTW hardly feverish, but very normal for the situation. It always used to be 101 to be considered fever.
Yup, I keep hoping that your hospital is not run by a bunch of crooks. If your wife thinks so, not much fun to work there.
 

NHSleddog

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Yup, I keep hoping that your hospital is not run by a bunch of crooks. If your wife thinks so, not much fun to work there.
It isn't my hospital, I don't own it. I have good news and bad news. It is a normal hospital to work at. They are all doing it. At least in the 4 hospitals that she knows people at. It is the current covid protocol.

Anyway, I will state again for those that are just a little more scared due to the "uptick" in numbers, my father does not have covid even though the media told you he did.
 

Daren Todd

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The problem is that the tests and testing and the definition of symptomatic are changing with time and whoever is doing a study. The news rarely if ever defines how these numbers are obtained.

"Testing positive" generally means they swabbed the back of someone's nose and viral RNA could be detected on the swab. And they are likely to be infectious. Symptomatic means someone reports one or more signs from a defined list of symptoms. In the Medscape link below, there is another link to a Nature Medicine paper in which their list of symptoms did not include covid toes or loss of sense of smell because the study was done in China early in the epidemic before those symptoms were known. So asymptomatic would be overestimated.

Then there is the problem of asymptomatic versus presymptomatic. If someone in your state is covid positive, do they come back two weeks later and repeat the swab test and ask about symptoms to see if they now have symptoms?
In the Nature paper the Chinese researchers had a captive audience so to speak since the patients were in a "central quarantine" so they could ask that and several other interesting questions. They also tried to answer your questions about follow up antibody tests. Interestingly the numbers of antibodies of two types fell pretty fast, faster for asymptomatic individuals than symptomatic. Have a look at those papers, pretty interesting, and like most research, raise the need for further studies. The Nature paper includes data to indicate asymptomatic people can transmit the virus to others. And throws a caution flag for the assumption that presence of antibodies now will provide protection in 6 months. It might not be that simple.


https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/932671
I think the reaso so many people have a hard time trusting the numbers is the fact there are so many people that are listed as asymptomatic.

My thoughts were more along the lines of how they test for TB as an example. You have the quick test with (x) percent that are a false positive. Then if you test positive with no obvious signs and symptoms. They have the more involved test that takes longer for the results to rule out the false positive.

Till they can come up with something like that for Covid, I think there is gonna be a huge group that doesn't trust what's being reported. Seeing so many Asymptomatic carriers being reported. Well, you cant help but wonder how many are false positives.

Let's face it. The testing has changed so much in the past three months. It went from a "Brain Swab" like they do for the flu, to a quick easy back of the nose swab. Also the turn around on these tests. From a few days to several hours depending on the circumstances.
 

sheepfarmer

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I think the reaso so many people have a hard time trusting the numbers is the fact there are so many people that are listed as asymptomatic.

My thoughts were more along the lines of how they test for TB as an example. You have the quick test with (x) percent that are a false positive. Then if you test positive with no obvious signs and symptoms. They have the more involved test that takes longer for the results to rule out the false positive.

Till they can come up with something like that for Covid, I think there is gonna be a huge group that doesn't trust what's being reported. Seeing so many Asymptomatic carriers being reported. Well, you cant help but wonder how many are false positives.

Let's face it. The testing has changed so much in the past three months. It went from a "Brain Swab" like they do for the flu, to a quick easy back of the nose swab. Also the turn around on these tests. From a few days to several hours depending on the circumstances.
I understand. One would hope the testing for active cases is improving, but given what I heard yesterday about useless government supplied swabs, not so sure about that. As I said, asymptomatic positives should be tested again in a week. Try to rule out false positives and see if still asymptomatic. But then I am not in charge....and how many people would come back for the second test?
 

skeets

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I kinda look at it like this, I wear a mask and I had a fella ask me why are you wearing that hing are afraid I will give to the kung flu, I said no Im afraid I'll give it to you,, the light never went on.
I have lung issues that go back to my days working underground, so I dont need anything else helping me not breath.
I am not so foolish to think a mask is the end all answer, I wear it so I might not have a problem, and I wash my hands as well, just like with every other flu or cold or viral infestation. No I do not think it is as bad as claimed, but for me it is not something being forced on me by the govt but something I have imposed on my self, so maybe I can dance at my grand daughters wedding. You have to follow what you feel is right for you
 
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