COVID-19 Stuff

[SidecarFlip]

Good article Sheep and I don't much care to understand the 'other point of view'. I have my vies about the Wuhan Flu and I'm going to do EXACTLY what I have been doing. wearing a mask when out, social distancing and telling idiots to get the hell outta my space..

I do like the new ignore feature. It totally removes whomever I ignore from any thread I visit so I don't have to read their drivel.

 

[motionclone]

If the behavior harms only the individual, then easy to say let them do it. If it directly or indirectly results in harm to the community it is harder to decide.

I agree but this is where politics, false information , media hype, manipulated data, emotions, knee jerk reactions etc are the deciding factors rather than logic, common sense and REAL information.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Well I certainly can't disagree with you there. The question is where do you feel you can get real data? I probably can't find any better than that link to the Nature paper. It has raw data on mask effectiveness published in England, refereed journal, data obtained from studies done before the pandemic, so politics should not have entered into it. (Post 1155) There are a lot of other papers dealing with mask use, but this one is free of media spin and hype.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I feel comfortable doing what I'm doing and so does my wife and so far, I haven't even had a sniffle Not to say I won't contract it but I'm doing everything I can not to.

We don't even go grocery shopping any more. Use Kroger Click List and drive to the store, never leave the van and they load the stuff in the back. Easy Peasy and no inside the store and we have been getting just about everything online delivered except bird seed and horse feed. from TSC and we go to TSC on Tuesday in the early AM to avoid idiots. I farm alone so no issue there and when I run hay, the only person I see is the guy who buys it all and we do the social distance thing anyway.

I get real tired of people (idiots) harping about the mask thing and the social distance thing. Hey, if you don't want to do it, fine with me just don't get in my space, do the 6 foot thing. if you get it, don't whine. There are more than enough whiners in the country already. I don't want to hear it. More importantly, don't preach to me because I don't want to hear or read that either.

Go do your thing but don't tell me I don't want to hear it.

 

[NHSleddog]

The primary reason for recommending mask wearing at this time is the significant number of people walking around that don't know they have it and can spread it to others. They are either presymptomatic, meaning they may feel sick tomorrow, or like a lot of folks, asymptomatic, meaning their symptoms are so mild they could write them off as allergies or nothing at all. Masks are very effective at preventing this kind of transmission. If you are saying, well what's in it for me, I don't care if I catch it or give it to someone else, keep in mind that a big outbreak is going to be really bad for the economy and the health care system. A lot of people do get very sick, and don't recover 100%. They cannot work as well as they used to. The reduction in deaths and ICU admissions was won at great cost to the residents of Michigan by staying at home. If everyone were courteous and considerate and wore masks and kept up the distancing, we could realistically keep the numbers low. But no, between the demonstrators of various sorts, including the gun rights/militia group this week, and the various groups that have foolishly turned this into a political issue, I am betting we too will have an upward surge in the numbers in a few weeks.

First off the WHO and many others around the world DO NOT AGREE that ..."Masks are very effective at preventing this kind of transmission" as you stated above. Are they all morons as well? A bunch of them are scientists and doctors. Most agree "fitted masks" N95 and above are effective but we are not talking about those.

For the rest of what you said, sure sure. And helmets WOULD save people from dying EVERY DAY from flying objects. The same helmet would save lots of lives of people that die EVERY DAY in car accidents. NOT JUST THE ACCIDENTS YOU CAUSE but the accidents caused by others as well. Do you wear a helmet when you go out?

This cold isn't going anywhere and it will morph and change as all colds have since we have been paying attention to colds. If someone is that bothered by it, or susceptible to it they should stay home.

A person believing some crocheted mask and some arbitrary distance of 6 imperial feet will keep you safe in life; puts that person in the moron category to me.

I just find the whole arbitrary nature of what people think is safe, or a shootable offense (based on inaccurate data at best, deliberatly modified at worst) is really quite laughable if it wasn't so scary to see how easily led we have become.

The traffic data is real BTW.

 

[NHSleddog]

Read my last sentence..... doofus.

I wasn't replying to you but that is fine. So touche' "go do your thing but don't tell me I don't want to hear it."

Like you enjoy hitting the ignore button, if you put your fingers in your ears while you say it, you will feel better flip. When you hit the button hard enough while blocking your ears you should hear a cute little tune play in your head.

You are a real contrast and hard to figure out. In January you were "not changing the way I live for the chinese virus" bla bla bla. Today you threaten to shoot people for invading your personal space? I don't get it what changed?

 

[sheepfarmer]

First off the WHO and many others around the world DO NOT AGREE that ..."Masks are very effective at preventing this kind of transmission" as you stated above. Are they all morons as well? A bunch of them are scientists and doctors. Most agree "fitted masks" N95 and above are effective but we are not talking about those.

For the rest of what you said, sure sure. And helmets WOULD save people from dying EVERY DAY from flying objects. The same helmet would save lots of lives of people that die EVERY DAY in car accidents. NOT JUST THE ACCIDENTS YOU CAUSE but the accidents caused by others as well. Do you wear a helmet when you go out?

This cold isn't going anywhere and it will morph and change as all colds have since we have been paying attention to colds. If someone is that bothered by it, or susceptible to it they should stay home.

A person believing some crocheted mask and some arbitrary distance of 6 imperial feet will keep you safe in life; puts that person in the moron category to me.

I just find the whole arbitrary nature of what people think is safe, or a shootable offense (based on inaccurate data at best, deliberatly modified at worst) is really quite laughable if it wasn't so scary to see how easily led we have become.

The traffic data is real BTW.

Actually the devil is in the details. The WHO has said one thing at one time and something else at another. You have to read everything to make any sense of it. They are not necessarily morons but you can conclude whether or not they are correct if you know who said what when. Early on there were two issues to lead them to discourage mask use by the general public. One, there was a shortage of PPE, including medical grade masks,which were needed for the nurses and doctors. Two, they didn't know how much asymptomatic spread there was or how much the virus was circulating in the community. No point in using scarce masks if quarantining sick people would be just as effective. The CDC initially went along with that idea. When it became apparent that there were a heck of a lot of infected people that didn't know they were sick, and infecting others, they suggested homemade masks. Medical grade stuff is still in short supply, as is testing equipment. So there has been a 180. Confusing no doubt.

You were joking about the crocheted right? That would be the least effective mask material one could imagine. Multilayered cloth masks are very effective at catching the exhaled droplets from the wearer. They are, depending on the design of the mask, somewhat effective at preventing the wearer from inhaling droplets and aerosols in the environment. If a wearer and his neighbor are both wearing masks, communication of infection becomes very unlikely.

First off the WHO and many others around the world DO NOT AGREE that ..."Masks are very effective at preventing this kind of transmission" as you stated above. Are they all morons as well? A bunch of them are scientists and doctors. Most agree "fitted masks" N95 and above are effective but we are not talking about those.

For the rest of what you said, sure sure. And helmets WOULD save people from dying EVERY DAY from flying objects. The same helmet would save lots of lives of people that die EVERY DAY in car accidents. NOT JUST THE ACCIDENTS YOU CAUSE but the accidents caused by others as well. Do you wear a helmet when you go out?

This cold isn't going anywhere and it will morph and change as all colds have since we have been paying attention to colds. If someone is that bothered by it, or susceptible to it they should stay home.

A person believing some crocheted mask and some arbitrary distance of 6 imperial feet will keep you safe in life; puts that person in the moron category to me.

I just find the whole arbitrary nature of what people think is safe, or a shootable offense (based on inaccurate data at best, deliberatly modified at worst) is really quite laughable if it wasn't so scary to see how easily led we have become.

The traffic data is real BTW.

Re your first paragraph the kind of transmission that even a homemade mask (well not crocheted, you were joking right) is effective at preventing is from the infected wearer to the bystander. The WHO and the CDC are in agreement on that. If both parties are wearing masks it curtails community spread. No typhoid Mary's.

 

[NHSleddog]

Re your first paragraph the kind of transmission that even a homemade mask (well not crocheted, you were joking right) is effective at preventing is from the infected wearer to the bystander. The WHO and the CDC are in agreement on that. If both parties are wearing masks it curtails community spread. No typhoid Mary's.

Our state said ANY facial covering bandanas etc. And there absolutely are crocheted masks AND people wearing them. Here are a few hundred examples https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf...qAhWkSt8KHZrfBB8QsAR6BAgGEAE&biw=1717&bih=964

But assuming we are talking about the super high quality home made masks (ROFLMAO) - the same mask should protect the worried bystander right? In fact that same worried bystander should also be in a tyvek suit (also VERY effective at preventing the transmitting and receiving of the dermis as well as the rest of the clingers).

It is the whole arbitrary nature that should put everyone on edge. Protests are fine, going to the beach is not. WalMart is fine, having your hip replaced is not. 6' is fine, but 5' is not (just in America - it is different in other countries). Going to the hair salon is bad, going to the pet groomer is fine. Totally arbitrary made up rules distances etc. By the same people that have been manipulating the numbers on this from day one. I am more worried about that than I am of catching the Chinese Flu.

 

[motionclone]

Read my last sentence..... doofus.

Time to put the keyboard away for a while and get some fresh air.

 

[NHSleddog]

Time to put the keyboard away for a while and get some fresh air.

I don't mind flip calling me names. We all have a crazy old uncle. Until they start threatening with their gun at the store, it is all good.

 

[torch]

In the city where I work, the total number of infections in the general population is about 0.47%.

The total number of infections in the Operations Division of the Fire Department is about 0.26% since the implantation of basic infection control procedures -- including disinfecting contact surfaces twice per day, maintaining a 2 meter (6 foot) distance within the stations where possible and wearing cheap disposable procedure masks when social distancing is not possible (such as riding in the apparatus or when preparing meals, etc.) and frequent hand washing or disinfecting.

Now if we -- the people who are constantly and deliberately coming in close contact with patients at their most infectious, and who live in close contact with each other for 24 hours at a time -- can cut our own infection rate to half that of the general population through these basic precautions, then I suspect there might be some benefit to those precautions.

When I enter a public space, such as when shopping, I wear a mask and use a pocket size bottle of hand sanitizer before and after handling anything. I do it to protect others. I believe it is the responsible thing to do. I follow the arrows on the floor of the isles and keep my distance from others rather than push past. And I believe that those who refuse to comply with these new social norms are irresponsible and reprehensible.

 

[motionclone]

I don't mind flip calling me names. We all have a crazy old uncle. Until they start threatening with their gun at the store, it is all good.

Hes threatened me a couple times here because he doesnt like it when hes called out for acting like a jacka$$. Hes been acting like this since the day he joined and many people have complained. lots of folks have also PMed me thanking me for confronting him. They cant thank me publically because flip is somehow apart of the "in" crowd.

 

[motionclone]

And I believe that those who refuse to comply with these new social norms are irresponsible and reprehensible.

These arent new social norms only temporary measures created to supposedly slow the spread until a vaccine is produced.

The "experts" that created these rules have gotten a lot wrong. You can follow the rules of people who have failed all you want but dont expect everyone to follow along.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Our state said ANY facial covering bandanas etc. And there absolutely are crocheted masks AND people wearing them. Here are a few hundred examples https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf...qAhWkSt8KHZrfBB8QsAR6BAgGEAE&biw=1717&bih=964

But assuming we are talking about the super high quality home made masks (ROFLMAO) - the same mask should protect the worried bystander right? In fact that same worried bystander should also be in a tyvek suit (also VERY effective at preventing the transmitting and receiving of the dermis as well as the rest of the clingers).

It is the whole arbitrary nature that should put everyone on edge. Protests are fine, going to the beach is not. WalMart is fine, having your hip replaced is not. 6' is fine, but 5' is not (just in America - it is different in other countries). Going to the hair salon is bad, going to the pet groomer is fine. Totally arbitrary made up rules distances etc. By the same people that have been manipulating the numbers on this from day one. I am more worried about that than I am of catching the Chinese Flu.

No kidding on the crochet! Useless unless lined, which some of those were. They may have said any fabric is helpful, but common sense here! Crochet has holes the diameter of the needle used to make it.

As far as protests are concerned, no one thinks they are ok from a public health point of view. Groomer versus barber,groomer you can hand your dog over and !eave, observing distancing and mask. Pretty hard to get your hair cut without being !ess than 6 feet. Some of it is arbitrary since no interaction can be made risk free.

 

[NHSleddog]

In the city where I work, the total number of infections in the general population is about 0.47%.

That is it in a nutshell.

99.5% of the people are fine. and 1/2 of the .5 never had a symptom.

+/- 10% are high risk of getting it.

I would have the 90% carry on and the 10% shelter in. Or when the 10% can't shelter in, have them get into the hazmat suits. People are dying over the restrictions as well. Do any of them matter?

If the numbers were all accurate, I could see getting all scared over it however that is not the case here. The numbers (as well as the population) are being manipulated, intentionally. Almost every prediction made by the "experts" has been wrong. I always thought the Lemmings were the irresponsible ones.

 

[motionclone]

Exactly where we are at, my wife and I. To those two who are up there in Maine, You better hope you never run into my good friend who lives there (Maine) in some public venue. He'd be giving you an attitude adjustment right now. Like me (and my wife), he has ZERO tolerance for stupid buttheads and in as much as he's retired LE, he carries 100% of the time and also has a short fuse.

You can do whatever you want to but again, if you get sick, don't whine about it. Just expire quietly. No whining.

Covid hasn't went anywhere, it's still there, waiting to infect your sorry arse.

Ill bet if he saw the stuff youre posting he would have a little chat with you.

Hey sheepfarmer, youre buds with this guy and close to him so about time for an intervention dont you think?

 

[NHSleddog]

....To those two who are up there in Maine, You better hope you never run into my good friend who lives there (Maine) in some public venue. He'd be giving you an attitude adjustment right now. Like me (and my wife), he has ZERO tolerance for stupid buttheads and in as much as he's retired LE, he carries 100% of the time and also has a short fuse.

I am not from Maine but close enough. Is your friend going to start threatening to shoot people as well?

Sounds like ANOTHER old hot head that needs his guns taken away because he thinks someone standing too close is a shootable offense. You reflect poorly on ALL gun owners. Seriously, we don't need more gun laws and restrictions up here just because some old guy can't control his fuse/temper in MI.

Again, most likely you will be the oldest guy in the store carrying at the time if you don't forget your gun in the car like last time (super irresponsible BTW, forgetting a loaded gun in the car between the seats, just my opinion). So with your short fuse and old guy determination, I am sure you will be able to shoot someone however, my money is on the guy like my son standing an aisle over putting the crazy old guy with a gun down ending it.

For a guy that always tells everyone not to complain you sure do complain a lot.

 

[NHSleddog]

You've vanished from my computer screen, not all bad. All that shows is 'ignored content'. Don't know if it's you or your buddy, really don't care either.

Have a nice day and go get Covid, you deserve it.

A real class act. Whatever flip. Just leave your gun at home.

 

[motionclone]

Have a nice day and go get Covid, you deserve it.

Thanks for showing the world your lack of character once again old buddy.

 

[sheepfarmer]

This is an interesting you tube video. It discusses the air borne spread of exhaled droplets and aerosols, and yes mc, 6 feet was an arbitrary number, and here's why.

She is very clear about what is known and what is not known. I think this explains the bar incident mentioned a while back where one person unknowingly infected I think it was 16 others. Her takehome message is that buildings could be made much safer with attention to the ventilation system.