Another L245dt with a hydraulic problem

[boothboy]

Hi guys. I need your help. I have a L245dt with no PS, my FEL is driven off a crankshaft pump and it and it's resevor are completely separate from the rear hydraulics. The rear hydraulics have all steel lines. The rear hydraulics operate extremely slow and only at hi rpm. I have drained the fluid cleaned the tubular filter twice and made sure it is seated properly. It does however have a very, very,very small wrinkle in it. I have cleaned the pressure relief valve and have played with adding shims. My first question would be how do you install a test gauge into the system? I removed the plug (#34 in the O/P Cover assy) drilled and taped it to except a 3000 lb pressure gauge thinking that the cover might be where pressure readings are taken. Gauge read 0. Installed second gauge still 0. I have removed the Hyd pump and can feel pressure and suction when rotating it in the proper direction. I applied air pressure to the steel pressure line and fluid flows out the return line. I have removed and cleaned the vent tube. As of yet I have not removed the lift arms and cover. I believe that is where the control valve is. Nor have I torn the pump apart yet. Again, this tractor does not have power steering so there is no priority valve in the system. Any ideas and where do you take pressure readings at and how is a gauge installed?
Thanks . BB

 

[Dave_eng]

It may be your testing procedure giving you erroneous readings.

You have an open center hydraulic system on your tractor.

The significance of this is that oil is constantly circulating through the pump under low pressure. There is no pressure until there is a demand for a hydraulic action to take place.

For example, on your loader, the hydraulic pressures are low until you pull or push a control lever at which time the hydraulic pressure will rise and continue to rise until the relief valve starts limiting how high it can go.

You need to test with the gauge you tapped into the system with the 3 pt hitch lifting something.

Dave

 

[boothboy]

I have a implement on the hitch. No pressure registered when cycling the lift and drop lever. I'm thinking either the control valve is either malfunctioning and bypassing the fluid or a bad pump. But what I really need to know is where do you take a pressure reading from. Is the port on the o/p cover the correct place? Thanks BB

 

[Jim L.]

What Dave is saying is true.

Have you checked your intake strainer? Should be cleaned every 300 hours.

To test pressure you need pressure gauge, flow control valve, and return hose for the setup. You will be bypassing the pressure valve so can cause damage if not done properly. Look at the WSM (workshop manual) in the hydraulics section for the procedure picture and text.

 

[Dave_eng]

I have a implement on the hitch. No pressure registered when cycling the lift and drop lever. I'm thinking either the control valve is either malfunctioning and bypassing the fluid or a bad pump. But what I really need to know is where do you take a pressure reading from. Is the port on the o/p cover the correct place? Thanks BB

Not trying to argue with you but rather to give you a view from a long way a way.

If the 3 pt lifts, albeit slowly and at high rpm's, there has to be some pressure to measure. The fact that you see O on both gauges makes me think you are not connected where you could measure pressure.

There are no high quality WSM's for your vintage of tractor. The material that does exist has poor photos and is of little help.

One comment I can read in the WSM is that there is a hydraulic pressure test port in the 3 pt cylinder area.

Dave

 

[coachgeo]

Does the L245 have the drop speed adjustment? knob under the seat behind your heels as does the L225 L235?

 

[007kubotaguy]

Hello.
Just as Dave said in his last post. Put a gauge in the port near the speed control knob under the seat. This will give you the pressure in the hydraulic lift cylinder. It sounds like you have a weak pump. Good luck Lance

 

[boothboy]

What Dave is saying is true.

Have you checked your intake strainer? Should be cleaned every 300 hours.

To test pressure you need pressure gauge, flow control valve, and return hose for the setup. You will be bypassing the pressure valve so can cause damage if not done properly. Look at the WSM (workshop manual) in the hydraulics section for the procedure picture and text.

Ah! RTFB! Always a last resort. So it looks to me that I'm going to have to make a sealing plate with a outlet to bolt to the bottom of the pump. Lines fittings, hoses and the gauge won't be a problem. The plate for the pump will be fun. If there is a tool that is available I'd like to know about. And yes. I have serviced the strainer and rechecked it to make sure it is seated properly. Thanks.

 

[boothboy]

Does the L245 have the drop speed adjustment? knob under the seat behind your heels as does the L225 L235?

Yes it does and I have cycled it with a test gauge in place and the control arm in all positions (up and down).

 

[boothboy]

Not trying to argue with you but rather to give you a view from a long way a way.

If the 3 pt lifts, albeit slowly and at high rpm's, there has to be some pressure to measure. The fact that you see O on both gauges makes me think you are not connected where you could measure pressure.

There are no high quality WSM's for your vintage of tractor. The material that does exist has poor photos and is of little help.

One comment I can read in the WSM is that there is a hydraulic pressure test port in the 3 pt cylinder area.

Dave

And that is where I have my pressure gauge and by the way, your picture is the best one I've seen! The only time it would lift is with NO weight on the arms. If I hold the arms by hand they will not over come my pressure. What ever the pressure it has is so poor that it just won't push the needle. This is a new 3000 lb gauge and it's first increment is 20lbs.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Ah! RTFB! Always a last resort. So it looks to me that I'm going to have to make a sealing plate with a outlet to bolt to the bottom of the pump. Lines fittings, hoses and the gauge won't be a problem. The plate for the pump will be fun. If there is a tool that is available I'd like to know about. And yes. I have serviced the strainer and rechecked it to make sure it is seated properly. Thanks.

To the right just under the seat is a cap with 4 bolts, and a plug in the end, put a pressure gauge there and operate the three point.
If you get little or no rise in pressure, you either have a pump issue or a suction issue.

 

[boothboy]

To the right just under the seat is a cap with 4 bolts, and a plug in the end, put a pressure gauge there and operate the three point.
If you get little or no rise in pressure, you either have a pump issue or a suction issue.

Is that port threaded? Also would I be testing the same part of the tractor as I would with using the plug on the lift cylinder cover?

 

[JRaf]

I have an l245dt and I had hydraulic issues. The problem was junk inside the position control valve. I don't have any advice for checking pressure. (I know my pressure's okay because my loader runs off a split block mounted below the 3pt valve knob. FEL works fine.)
Is the 3pt drop valve knob working? Can you lock 3pt arms in the top position using the knob?
You might take off the round piston cover and look around in there to see if there's any debris in the little valves in there. Or maybe the big o-ring on the piston is damaged? Or maybe the piston or cylinder is damaged/rusted? There's nothing too complicated in there.
Beyond that the big rock shaft housing isn't really hard to remove (other than it's heavy) and that will expose the position control valve mounted underneath and you can check and make sure none of the veins and vents are blocked in the cover. (The initial problem I had was that the linkage between the 3pt lever and the limit valve had come undone. I found it in the bottom of the transaxle case under all that oil.)
The position control valve is rebuildable but it's a bxxxx to work on. You need air tools. Might be easier to source a good used one.
The WSM is terrible but still necessary.

 

[boothboy]

I have an l245dt and I had hydraulic issues. The problem was junk inside the position control valve. I don't have any advice for checking pressure. (I know my pressure's okay because my loader runs off a split block mounted below the 3pt valve knob. FEL works fine.)
Is the 3pt drop valve knob working? Can you lock 3pt arms in the top position using the knob?
You might take off the round piston cover and look around in there to see if there's any debris in the little valves in there. Or maybe the big o-ring on the piston is damaged? Or maybe the piston or cylinder is damaged/rusted? There's nothing too complicated in there.
Beyond that the big rock shaft housing isn't really hard to remove (other than it's heavy) and that will expose the position control valve mounted underneath and you can check and make sure none of the veins and vents are blocked in the cover. (The initial problem I had was that the linkage between the 3pt lever and the limit valve had come undone. I found it in the bottom of the transaxle case under all that oil.)
The position control valve is rebuildable but it's a bxxxx to work on. You need air tools. Might be easier to source a good used one.
The WSM is terrible but still necessary.

Thanks for the info. I am waiting for tooling to arrive so I can make a sealing plate that would allow me to chek pressure in the pump. The one source I could find fora pressure tester for a tractor this old has not responded to me inquiries about tools.So I'm mechining them. Everything takes time!
BB

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

You don't need to make a sealing plate in fact if done wrong you'll kill the pump permanently.

The port I pointed out will give you the same test, safely, as it will still keep the relief valve in the loop.

If you want to check flow, you can simply pull the plug and check for flow.

 

[boothboy]

You don't need to make a sealing plate in fact if done wrong you'll kill the pump permanently.

The port I pointed out will give you the same test, safely, as it will still keep the relief valve in the loop.

If you want to check flow, you can simply pull the plug and check for flow.

This port will give me a Hi Pressure reading? The factory work book calls for two test points. If at the rear port there is low readings or no readings, how do you know if it's the pump or the valving? Not arguing just trying to understand.

 

[boothboy]

This port will give me a Hi Pressure reading? The factory work book calls for two test points. If at the rear port there is low readings or no readings, how do you know if it's the pump or the valving? Not arguing just trying to understand.

Ok, reinstalled pump. Incerted pressure gauge in port on Oil Pressure Cover (part 53) O pressure lift lever up and down, Drop opened and closed. System full, filter clean and properly installed. BB

 

[boothboy]

Ok, reinstalled pump. Incerted pressure gauge in port on Oil Pressure Cover (part 53) O pressure lift lever up and down, Drop opened and closed. System full, filter clean and properly installed. BB

 

[boothboy]

Here's my question for today. Any tricks for removing slotted plug from control valve assy? I might have to machine a tool to remove it. I tried a breaker bar and Drag link socket. No budge. I made a O-ringed plate for installing a 3000lb guage to check pump pressure complete with a pressure control valve. Pump is fine. No pressure at rear hydraulics. Clean screen and all. I've got the rear lift assy off ( THAT was a grunt for a old man!) and am going through the valves. I did find the piston all the way at the top of the cylinder and it is pretty hard to push back down. I'm not sure how easily it should move in the cylinder. Any thoughts on getting that slotted plug out?

Thanks

BB

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Sounds like you're not getting any flow out of the pump.
Crack a pressure line and see if you get fluid out of it, if you don't you aren't getting any flow.