CRAZY TRAIN has gone OFF THE RAILS

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D2Cat

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Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

Why just seatbelt use? What about medicine bottle caps, obsolete date on tires, headlight on when using wipers, cross arms at RR crossings...

Oh, this discussion can get out of hand.:D
 

BAP

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Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

Why just seatbelt use? What about medicine bottle caps, obsolete date on tires, headlight on when using wipers, cross arms at RR crossings...

Oh, this discussion can get out of hand.:D
Actually, I the CRAZY TRAIN has gone OFF THE RAILS already!!!!;)
 

Lil Foot

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Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

dlsmith said:
Personally I think seat belt use should be discretionary. If some idiot thinks seat belts don't protect them in an accident, hey, let them take their chances, but deny them medical treatment if involved in an accident. Let them live or die with the consequences of their choice. Darwin's principle at work.
I agree, and the same logic should be applied to motorcycle helmets. If morons want to go without, more power to 'em, just don't expect any treatment or care that they or their family can afford.
 

GreensvilleJay

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Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

I'd like them to get rid of ABS,'traction control', and automatic transmissions.. then the idiots WOULD thin the genepol !:D
 

dlsmith

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Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

I'd like them to get rid of ABS,'traction control', and automatic transmissions.. then the idiots WOULD thin the genepol !:D
I have a refinement on the no automatic transmission idea. Cars with a manual transmission aren't allowed to have cupholders. That way idiots don't a place to set the beer when they have to shift.
 

motionclone

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The thread title got changed just like the Hoax name has changed over the years. :)
 

skeets

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Shifting a 4 speed while holding a beer aint no big thing,, most of us grew up that way
 

D2Cat

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Yep, I got my first driver's license from a Army Sergeant handling the driving test. He had you pull into a local coffee shop with a slight slope towards the building. He go in, while you waited the come out with a full cup of coffee. Set in the pass. seat, take the lid off and say, "Ok lets go." If he got any coffee on him, you flunked!! No one thought much about it. There was no option. I didn't know about automatic transmissions.
 

sheepfarmer

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Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

re: this ,from the article....
The model noted what the global average temperature was at the time,
...

OK, WHAT dataset was used to calculate the 'global average temperature' ?

Was it 100 points, 1,000 points, 10,000 points ? ALL taken at the same time ? Was there equal distribution of temperature readings between city vs rural ? Were all measurements done at say 2 meters( 6 feet) of the ground, in wide open spaces, not shielded from the Sun ?

It'd be very interesting to KNOW how and where this was done.
Here is a reference to an open access article that in fact discusses the various ways people measure these temperatures and the impact on models.

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2015GL064888

It is not simple, but the references to original data sets are there if you want them.
 

GreensvilleJay

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>Sf, thanks for the link...
yeesh, 1st you need a dictionary to lookup some of the words in chapter one.....either the guy's 'full of himself' or he figures BS will baffle brains...

not a good start..
then in c2, c3 they actually admit to 'filling in the blanks' for missed readings, NOT using readings for VAST areas, and other 'fudge factors'. At one point they got some useable models from the data.and used those. hmm..who says the other models aren't valid ? Oh wait, those don't show GW/CC so we'll toss them out ! They also admit their 'models' have 'modified' data that's 92-95% accurate. Said the other way ,they're WRONG 5-8% of the time ! Elections have been won/lost in that range...so we should elect the guy with FEWER votes??

They go to great lengths to 'mask' that they manipulate the raw data so that their models show exactly what they've been paid to do., show that man-made GW/CC is real.
 

motionclone

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I know, and I'm ashamed of myself. :D

But some people just make it too easy.
Those "scientists" and politicians you worship say the same thing amongst themselves about their followers.
 

sheepfarmer

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>Sf, thanks for the link...
yeesh, 1st you need a dictionary to lookup some of the words in chapter one.....either the guy's 'full of himself' or he figures BS will baffle brains...

not a good start..
then in c2, c3 they actually admit to 'filling in the blanks' for missed readings, NOT using readings for VAST areas, and other 'fudge factors'. At one point they got some useable models from the data.and used those. hmm..who says the other models aren't valid ? Oh wait, those don't show GW/CC so we'll toss them out ! They also admit their 'models' have 'modified' data that's 92-95% accurate. Said the other way ,they're WRONG 5-8% of the time ! Elections have been won/lost in that range...so we should elect the guy with FEWER votes??

They go to great lengths to 'mask' that they manipulate the raw data so that their models show exactly what they've been paid to do., show that man-made GW/CC is real.
Sorry you had trouble understanding the paper. It is difficult to understand the vocabulary if it is not your area of interest. If you read the paper as a whole he is critiquingthe various methods of calculating mean global temperatures from the data available. As you can imagine obtaining a complete and perfect data set is very difficult. What he has to say should help people evaluate the strength of the various models. This is a 2015 paper. The recent 2019 paper that was first referenced in this thread by eserv comments on the agreement of predictive models made many years ago and how it turned out in actuality. The differences in predicted global temperatures in the old models could be attributed to using expected carbon levels that were too high. In other words atmospheric carbon was less than expected. This was one of hundreds of papers discussing the validity of the various models.

The utility to you is that he gives references to the sources of the raw data. You wanted to know how they got the numbers. You can look up those papers to answer those questions for yourself. You can't call it a hoax until you do that work.

I don't see people trying to deliberately fool anyone. No one pays these scientists to say one thing or another. The worst that happens is sometimes it is hard to get papers published in refereed journals if your reviewers think you are using bad data or bad methods.
 

dlsmith

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Those "scientists" and politicians you worship say the same thing amongst themselves about their followers.
How do you know?

Do you personally know those "scientists" and they have let you in on their secret?

Did they give you the secret handshake?

Have you read their secret conspiracy messages?

Give me a f***ing break.

I "worship" no scientists or politicians, especially politicians.

Scientists are just trying to warn us about a looming problem that can put many people, or possibly a substantial portion of the human population at risk because of climate change that would shift habitable areas of the planet toward the poles, flood low lying coastal areas and generally change the entire zone where humans can raise crops and live in moderately habitable conditions.

I see you live in Maine. Well my friend, if the climate warms as much as they say it could, you are going to be ass deep in people fleeing from the swelteringly hot southern areas to the comparative mild climate in the northern tier of states. How does that sound?

All you climate change deniers seen to think the scientists have some underlying agenda or nefarious motivations for raising the alarm to the fact humans are contributing a substantial portion of greenhouse gases and pollutants that are causing climate change. That's all BS. A large proportion of the most outspoken deniers are just using the media to gain notoriety, stroke their egos and gain a following of uniformed drones that continue spreading their ignorance. They are the ones who are profiting from supposedly exposing the "hoax."

One thing I have learned in my 70 years on this planet is that lies spread faster and do more damage to our society than the truth. The deniers are the ones spreading the lies in this case. That is a fact.

Just as for years the fossil fuel fuel industry denied climate change because it was going to hurt their businesses. Well now, they have admitted to being wrong and are getting into the renewable energy business. If they can't make money one way, they'll find another.

Climate scientists have nothing to gain by sounding the alarm, the have no agenda. They collect data, analyze it, and try to draw a conclusion as to what the data is saying. That's their job, that's how science works. They don't get a big fat bonus because the data shows that the planet is warming due to humans dumping CO2 into the atmosphere. When vast majority of climate scientists on the planet believe that the data points to rising global temperatures, one would be advised to heed their warnings. As sheepfarmer pointed out in the previous post, all these papers are peer reviewed by other scientists before they are printed in the relevant publications.

I understand that there is a certain part of the population that believes that there are many conspiracies that are working to take their money, freedoms and make unwelcome changes to their way of life, and in some cases that is true. But in the case of climate change it's not, it a big delusion on the part of the deniers. In a way I understand their point of view, because they are scared and pissed off because things are changing and it doesn't fit in with their agenda or world view. Get over it, the world is changing and bitching, pissing and moaning isn't going to stop the change.

Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.
 
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motionclone

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How do you know?

Do you personally know those "scientists" and they have let you in on their secret?

Did they give you the secret handshake?

Have you read their secret conspiracy messages?

Give me a f***ing break.

I "worship" no scientists or politicians, especially politicians.

Scientists are just trying to warn us about a looming problem that can put many people, or possibly a substantial portion of the human population at risk because of climate change that would shift habitable areas of the planet toward the poles, flood low lying coastal areas and generally change the entire zone where humans can raise crops and live in moderately habitable conditions.

I see you live in Maine. Well my friend, if the climate warms as much as they say it could, you are going to be ass deep in people fleeing from the swelteringly hot southern areas to the comparative mild climate in the northern tier of states. How does that sound?

All you climate change deniers seen to think the scientists have some underlying agenda or nefarious motivations for raising the alarm to the fact humans are contributing a substantial portion of greenhouse gases and pollutants that are causing climate change. That's all BS. A large proportion of the most outspoken deniers are just using the media to gain notoriety, stroke their egos and gain a following of uniformed drones that continue spreading their ignorance. They are the ones who are profiting from supposedly exposing the "hoax."

One thing I have learned in my 70 years on this planet is that lies spread faster and do more damage to our society than the truth. The deniers are the ones spreading the lies in this case. That is a fact.

Just as for years the fossil fuel fuel industry denied climate change because it was going to hurt their businesses. Well now, they have admitted to being wrong and are getting into the renewable energy business. If they can't make money one way, they'll find another.

Climate scientists have nothing to gain by sounding the alarm, the have no agenda. They collect data, analyze it, and try to draw a conclusion as to what the data is saying. That's their job, that's how science works. They don't get a big fat bonus because the data shows that the planet is warming due to humans dumping CO2 into the atmosphere. When vast majority of climate scientists on the planet believe that the data points to rising global temperatures, one would be advised to heed their warnings. As sheepfarmer pointed out in the previous post, all these papers are peer reviewed by other scientists before they are printed in the relevant publications.

I understand that there is a certain part of the population that believes that there are many conspiracies that are working to take their money, freedoms and make unwelcome changes to their way of life, and in some cases that is true. But in the case of climate change it's not, it a big delusion on the part of the deniers. In a way I understand their point of view, because they are scared and pissed off because things are changing and it doesn't fit in with their agenda or world view. Get over it, the world is changing and bitching, pissing and moaning isn't going to stop the change.

Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.
How did you get so brainwashed?
 
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