Fixing hole in side of block

[joesmith123]

Put on bell housing, next: put block onto tractor

Tightened all bolts, almost forgot to hammer in the keepers on inside bolts

Took about 30 minutes to figure out how to line these bolts for flywheel

Hit them hard with impact gun once I get electricity (waiting on the sun)

Hammer in those keepers, put on clutch assembly, put entire block onto tractor

Hit the flywheel bolts with air powered impact, hammered in the keepers

Clutch plate sitting on clutch but won't be flush with flywheel

I remember it being flush

Up close, you can see clutch plate hitting clutch, not allowing plate to be flush with flywheel

Now: go look at diagrams and see if you forgot something, let me know what I did wrong

ok I think it is solved

There was 2 size bolts, some shorter some taller, once I got them in, it pushed the plate inward and now it sit flush, some bolts did not go down the whole way, switched them out with short ones until all 6 bolts sit flat

Now: Tighten those bolts by hand, flip block upright, lift block and somehow get it back onto tractor

Built a pad near tractor, tried to lift it onto pad, cant, forgot how heavy it is

Now: Put straps on it lift it with bx1500

Moving block using loader on small tractor

Finangling block into position, tight space

Got block close to tractor

Dropped block close to position, built it up using lumber

Now: brainstorm how to push it into tractor

 

[joesmith123]

Put block back onto tractor using smaller tractor

Tried crowbar to lift block and manually push it, couldn't

Got tractor back from other side, kept chain on left side, lifted it up, got the two big studs that hold block to tractor

Secured block to tractor with the two nuts, took away smaller tractor

Now: get bolts in that hold it together

Got all 8 bolts in tight that hold block to tractor

Cleaned starter then put onto block

Area used to have hole, put starter on

Rig up starter to have power, spin engine and see how it spins

Rigged up battery and signal wire, won't spin crank, made sure I can spin crank by hand, yes, battery too low maybe

Next: rig up power from pickup truck, see if it spins crank

 

[Jim L.]

Rig up starter to have power, spin engine and see how it sounds

WHOA! Maybe think about this. Have all moving surfaces been oiled or had assembly lube applied?

The starter is sized to turn much more mass than what is there now. Maybe better to hand turn now and leave starter for later.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

I hesitate to post this, but at the risk of sounding like a "Know it all" or a "Negative Nellie", I have some of those "quick connect carribeaners" you have pictured in your last post to lift the block, but I only use them for very "light duty" things.

At least the ones that I have, are woefully "under rated" as compared to the chain itself, and not meant for lifting heavy objects.

Just sayin........stay safe


Edit: I would also turn it over by hand like @Jim L. mentioned.

 

[dragfan66]

No apparent lube on the bearings or journals.
Reusing old main seal on the crankshaft.
Now you are faced with installing pistons, oil pump, oil pan, etc. while lying on the ground.

You should consider the block installation a test run....
Pull it back off now and do a proper assembly on the bench where you can get to everything and then install it on the tractor.
Quit trying to get ahead of things, it will cause problems later.
Just my opinion.

 

[joesmith123]

Hand spin first, then figure out if starter is bad

Tightened c clamp on crank

September 11, 2024

youtube.com

Video: looking down into cylinder 3, the journal that takes thrust bearings

No noise, linear feeling, solid, nothing loose

Gave starter power from small tractor, sparks but starter won't spin

Video:

September 11, 2024

youtube.com

Diagnosis plan:

If I give starter opposite polarity, it should spin the opposite way correct?

I can also install starter from other engine and see if that one works

I can also take this starter off and do bench test and see if it spins

Let me know which way to go

Had to make jumper cables out of good copper

September 11, 2024

youtube.com

Video: gave starter power, both starters are doing exactly what you see: making noise but not spinning

I can spin easily by hand

I tried flipping orientation of + and - , same sound, no spinning

Also tried smacking starters with hammer, both doing same exact sound and manner

Knowing that engine spinning fine and can't get starters to spin, move on with gear assembly

Gear parts, hit with diesel

Hit gears with compressed air then diesel

Get all gear tools ready, look at diagram, and properly put back together

 

[fried1765]

No apparent lube on the bearings or journals.
Reusing old main seal on the crankshaft.
Now you are faced with installing pistons, oil pump, oil pan, etc. while lying on the ground.

You should consider the block installation a test run....
Pull it back off now and do a proper assembly on the bench where you can get to everything and then install it on the tractor.
Quit trying to get ahead of things, it will cause problems later.
Just my opinion.

Joe......."will figure it out"

 

[Runs With Scissors]

I saw this on a different site and thought it was appropriate.

 

[dragfan66]

The video shows you rocking the crankshaft back and forth, not rotating.
You are turning the clutch and flywheel mass in this situation too.
That will not give you the feedback on the crankshaft freedom of rotation you need to know.

 

[retired farmer]

I saw this on a different site and thought it was appropriate.

I like this tip! Thinking about a winter project, rebuilding a 40s era Farmall model A engine.
rr

 

[utterchaos]

Hand spin first, then figure out if starter is bad

View attachment 137361

Tightened c clamp on crank

View attachment 137361

September 11, 2024

youtube.com

Video: looking down into cylinder 3, the journal that takes thrust bearings

No noise, linear feeling, solid, nothing loose

Gave starter power from small tractor, sparks but starter won't spin

Video:

September 11, 2024

youtube.com

Diagnosis plan:

If I give starter opposite polarity, it should spin the opposite way correct?

I can also install starter from other engine and see if that one works

I can also take this starter off and do bench test and see if it spins

Let me know which way to go

Had to make jumper cables out of good copper

September 11, 2024

youtube.com

Video: gave starter power, both starters are doing exactly what you see: making noise but not spinning

I can spin easily by hand

I tried flipping orientation of + and - , same sound, no spinning

Also tried smacking starters with hammer, both doing same exact sound and manner

Knowing that engine spinning fine and can't get starters to spin, move on with gear assembly

View attachment 137370

Gear parts, hit with diesel

View attachment 137372

Hit gears with compressed air then diesel

Get all gear tools ready, look at diagram, and properly put back together

Joe,
It doesn’t look like your cables to the starter are connected right. I can’t see what the (+) is connected to on the bottom, but your (-) should be to ground.

If everything is lubed, try this. Connect the (-) cable to the block or starter mounting bolt, then touch the (+) to the stud on top with the braided wire going to it, that should bump your starter. Forget about the signal wire for this test.

 

[Jim L.]

Also tried smacking starters with hammer, both doing same exact sound and manner

Knowing that engine spinning fine and can't get starters to spin, move on with gear assembly

Some "why" about the assembly lube. It does come in a bottle marked "assembly lube" and you chance seizing the engine if you don't use it. The first time that the engine is started and begins to rotate, there is no oil in the passages - it is running dry. Assembly lube provides the protection until the oil pump pushes engine oil to everything. An assembler does not want to keep moving things that push the assembly lube out of the way.

I would agree that the block is more easily worked by putting it on the bench. It will save time in the long run.

The starters should be moved to a bench and using the Workshop Manual can be bench-checked off the block. Most likely it is the electrical hookup at this point, and that can be checked on the bench.

Again, once a component is installed, resist the temptation to move it around and lose lubrication.

I know that this is exciting and wish you a good outcome.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Along with assembly lube, I also seem to remember something about packing Vaseline in a new/dry oil pump to help prime it and provide some initial protection.

I have not done one in a loooooong time though, so maybe that's not "a thing" anymore?

 

[Henro]

If I give starter opposite polarity, it should spin the opposite way correct?

Short answer: NO

The starter motor is a DC series wound motor. Reversing polarity does not reverse direction of rotation. To reverse rotation, you would have to rewire the motor internally. You would reverse the physical orientation of either of the field wings or the armature.

 

[jaxs]

Giving stuck hinge one more serious effort, messick parts showed up

View attachment 137200

While waiting for messick parts, hit the areas getting ready for weld with cut off and 7 in grind wheel

View attachment 137201

Hit hinge with 7 in grinding wheel, and cutoff ends of shaft

View attachment 137202

2 pieces cutoff the shaft, 7 in grind wheel

View attachment 137203

Messick arrived

View attachment 137204

These parts should get crankcase installed and block onto tractor

Now: remove bearings from other crankshaft, install them, get crankshaft assembly into block

View attachment 137206

Setup crankshaft upright, new bearing ready for installation

View attachment 137207

Smack flat piece of steel, get bearing halfway in flush

View attachment 137208

24 mm socket, smack socket pushing bearing all the way in lightly

View attachment 137209

Cleaned whole area with diesel then compressed air, then insert grease

View attachment 137210

Now: take apart this crankshaft and put bearings into other crankshaft

I'm blown away Joe. I would never have thought to peen the pin so it can't fall out. Cotter keys and other clips are always getting loose and falling in dirt where they can't be found. Think of money that could be saved by mfgrs if they stopped buying keys and clips and peened pins. And what about the aviation industry where they safty wire most every nut on the plane. If they peened bolts after nuts are torqued the savings in labor,not to mention wire would be staggering. Cost is only the beginning , safety would be significantly enhanced. Which is more likely to fail, twisted wire or peening?

Maintain the innovative/out of box thinking and keep up the good work Joe so we might all learn together.

 

[joesmith123]

Joe,
It doesn’t look like your cables to the starter are connected right. I can’t see what the (+) is connected to on the bottom, but your (-) should be to ground.

If everything is lubed, try this. Connect the (-) cable to the block or starter mounting bolt, then touch the (+) to the stud on top with the braided wire going to it, that should bump your starter. Forget about the signal wire for this test.

I show you what is hooked up to positive and negative

Starter will not engage unless power also going to signal wire

Positive wire: good copper and signal wire getting 12+ volts

Negative wire: opposite side of terminal, no signal wire

Short answer: NO

The starter motor is a DC series wound motor. Reversing polarity does not reverse direction of rotation. To reverse rotation, you would have to rewire the motor internally. You would reverse the physical orientation of either of the field wings or the armature.

Yes I hear you

I tried both polarities on both starters, same exact sound irregardless of polarity

They were both working fine

I will let it marinate while I study the gears and their hardware...

Organized gear hardware, looking at diagrams comprehending the area

Installed oil pump then realized it needs a gasket that I don't have, look at part 210 from the diagram, that is a gasket

Spent the last hour looking at diagrams ordered: bunch of o rings, gaskets for oil pump, water pump, gaskets for top left area

But, I do want to open the door for doing what hugo said where one can make their own gasket

Get gasket materials of different thicknesses, have those ready for projects like this, I look into it

 

[Henro]

I show you what is hooked up to positive and negative

Starter will not engage unless power also going to signal wire



View attachment 137376

Positive wire: good copper and signal wire getting 12+ volts

View attachment 137377

Negative wire: opposite side of terminal, no signal wire



Yes I hear you

I tried both polarities on both starters, same exact sound irregardless of polarity

They were both working fine

I will let it marinate while I study the gears and their hardware...

Not a good idea to use a metallic object as a pointer when dealing with electricity!

Granted in this case it is low voltage, but the battery can produce an arc that is quite hot and energy intensive.

 

[jaxs]

Put block back onto tractor using smaller tractor

View attachment 137314

Tried crowbar to lift block and manually push it, couldn't

View attachment 137315

Got tractor back from other side, kept chain on left side, lifted it up, got the two big studs that hold block to tractor

View attachment 137316

Secured block to tractor with the two nuts, took away smaller tractor

Now: get bolts in that hold it together

Got all 8 bolts in tight that hold block to tractor

View attachment 137318

Cleaned starter then put onto block

View attachment 137319

Area used to have hole, put starter on

Rig up starter to have power, spin engine and see how it spins

View attachment 137337

Rigged up battery and signal wire, won't spin crank, made sure I can spin crank by hand, yes, battery too low maybe

Next: rig up power from pickup truck, see if it spins crank

I show you what is hooked up to positive and negative

Starter will not engage unless power also going to signal wire



View attachment 137376

Positive wire: good copper and signal wire getting 12+ volts

View attachment 137377

Negative wire: opposite side of terminal, no signal wire



Yes I hear you

I tried both polarities on both starters, same exact sound irregardless of polarity

They were both working fine

I will let it marinate while I study the gears and their hardware...

View attachment 137379

View attachment 137380

Organized gear hardware, looking at diagrams comprehending the area

View attachment 137381

Installed oil pump then realized it needs a gasket that I don't have, look at part 210 from the diagram, that is a gasket

Rather than fasten battery cables to one place then another I've found it much faster to strip insulation from ends of cable then start touching ends here and there until I find a combination that works. I have to admit I do it partly to entertain and impress neighbors and passers-by. Especially at night the sparks are breathtakingly beautiful.

 

[jaxs]

Not a good idea to use a metallic object as a pointer when dealing with electricity!

Granted in this case it is low voltage, but the battery can produce an arc that is quite hot and energy intensive.

Baa-humbug , providing you maintain a firm grip on the pucker string a bit of recklessness can add excitement to otherwise monotonous work.

 

[hagrid]

I show you what is hooked up to positive and negative

Starter will not engage unless power also going to signal wire



View attachment 137376

Positive wire: good copper and signal wire getting 12+ volts

View attachment 137377

Negative wire: opposite side of terminal, no signal wire



Yes I hear you

I tried both polarities on both starters, same exact sound irregardless of polarity

They were both working fine

I will let it marinate while I study the gears and their hardware...

View attachment 137379

View attachment 137380

Organized gear hardware, looking at diagrams comprehending the area

View attachment 137381

Installed oil pump then realized it needs a gasket that I don't have, look at part 210 from the diagram, that is a gasket

Spent the last hour looking at diagrams ordered: bunch of o rings, gaskets for oil pump, water pump, gaskets for top left area

But, I do want to open the door for doing what hugo said where one can make their own gasket

Get gasket materials of different thicknesses, have those ready for projects like this, I look into it

Cereal boxes make fine gaskets for tight fits.