What to do when Dealer Relations go bad????

[Joisey]

Our Toyota Dealer won’t quit trying to service our car. Every 3 months I get another notice from them it has to “come in” for service (oil change)… and I‘m simply not going to drive 125 miles round-trip to waste an entire day sitting in their lounge just to pay them $178 for a full synthetic oil change …when I can do it here at home for less than $25 including the six pack of beer. (For some unknown reason the local WalMart last year had a clearance sale on Quaker State 0W20 Full Synthetic for $10/gal….so I bought all they had. (And the SuperTech filter is only $4.) I’m good for a couple years.

I brought mine back to the selling dealer for warranty work and they wanted to do an oil change (the 7500 mile change). First, I told them that I changed the oil and filter at 50 miles, then at 5K, and then I took the paper out of my wallet and read off all the low fluids and how much it took to fill them, and asked if the REALLY thought I would let them service my vehicle when they couldn't do it correctly the first time? In a service room full of customers it turned many heads. Like I said, never another Toyota.

PS Keep your receipts if your car is still under warranty. I bought 16 genuine Toyota filters for $2.25 from an online Toyota parts house. My truck uses the insert, not the spin on. I use Amsoil 0W20 Signature oil, like I did in my GMC. Never any trouble in 160K on the GMC. Best of luck to you.

 

[fried1765]

Our Toyota Dealer won’t quit trying to service our car. Every 3 months I get another notice from them it has to “come in” for service (oil change)… and I‘m simply not going to drive 125 miles round-trip to waste an entire day sitting in their lounge just to pay them $178 for a full synthetic oil change …when I can do it here at home for less than $25 including the six pack of beer. (For some unknown reason the local WalMart last year had a clearance sale on Quaker State 0W20 Full Synthetic for $10/gal….so I bought all they had. (And the SuperTech filter is only $4.) I’m good for a couple years.

You might want to consider watching the "Project Farm" U-Tube video on oil filter quality.
Not all oil filters are created equally!

 

[JimmyJazz]

With regard to the OP. This needs re written in a simplified way that focuses on the salient point(s) and then forwarded to the "complaint department" at Kubota, maybe the Better Business Bureau(BBB), State Attorney Generals Office... ? Let the facts and relevant laws "speak for themselves". If you have little in the form of writing skills then have someone else write it or hire an attorney. Thats a lot of money and the issues should be handled in a "professional " fashion. Good luck.

 

[GeoHorn]

You might want to consider watching the "Project Farm" U-Tube video on oil filter quality.
Not all oil filters are created equally!

I agree that not all filters are made to the same standards. (I never use Fram for example.)
I have watched oil filter videos previously …..I’ll revisit to see if SuperTech filters are specifically mentioned…. (why didn’t you provide a “link”..?? I’ve searched and don’t see a “project farm” oil filter video.)
However, the SuperTech filter for the currently poplular Toyotas (Joisey also apparently uses the same type insert)…. are easy to see the relative quality because it is NOT a “spin on canister”….it’s an “elemnt” type filter…and virtually indistinguishable from the genuine Toyota filter. (The same held true for the element filter in our previously owned Saturn…in fact the SuperTech element filtes are apparently only re-packaged Genuine OEM.)
The SuperTech spin on canister filters are made by Purolator and made in America. While on the low-end of the scale for materials (they use nitrile instead of epdm for anti-drain valves) they are adequate for my purposes.

Here’s a shift: WHY did Toyota adopt ”element” type filters for their newest engines? I HATE ELEMENT FILTERS! They are messy. The Toyota element filter is the MESSIEST OF ALL. It requires you to remove a plug, insert a plastic drain-tool…(which does NOT drain all the oil anyway)….which then fails to accomplish its’ design by leaving enough oil in the element to make a HUGE MESS when the outer-container is finally removed (necessary to actually change the element).
ON TOP of that….Toyota made the canister out of THIN, CHEAP PLASTIC/RESIN which is easily fractured!
(in fact, the first oil change of the new Toyota was a “freebie” performed by the DEALER …and when I pulled into my driveway and allowed the engine to idle for awhile that canister suddenly let-go and DUMPED the entire gallon of oil in my drive!
Pretty Amazing considering it’s a 60 mile drive home from the dealer than it didn’t dump the oil somewhere out on the highway…but waited until I got home. It had been x-threaded/overtightened/both.)

It’d be another long round trip to the dealer to get another canister/part….so I looked locally and THANK GOD for O’REILLY’s ….. they sell an ALL ALUMINUM canister made by Dorman for about $30 which is what Toyota should use anyway …if they insist on that stoopid element type filter!

Spin on filter installations are usually poorly-designed also. It’s rare to find one that can be spun-off without dumping a quart of dirty oil everywhere. (WHY do some designs have the damn thing mounted open-side down..?) But as orginally conceived, a Spin On Filer would be a simple, quick, clean replacement….. then engineering screwed it up by making it messy via poor-orientation and location.

There is only one admirable feature of element filters I can think of: They make it mandatory to observe if large chunks of metal, etc. are being filtered from a failing engine. (one doesn’t have to cut-open the can)

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Not ALL 'element' filters are messy.
Oil filter changes for my '58 Willy 4wd pickup were EASY, SIMPLE and CLEAN. You could were a $500 suit and NOT get a drop of oil on you.
Blame the penny pinching, profiteers and 'engineers' for any/all PITA oil filter designs.

 

[radas]

Not to defend Kubota, I admit that I do not have any of their equipment, which will change next year. However, their attitude I can say is parallel to Toyota when it comes to new vehicle set up and warranty work. From what I hear from reliable people, much the same can be said for the other big three auto makers.

"We have your money, now leave us alone" seems to be the common thread among stealerships. My writing to Toyota with an itemized list of low fluids on my new truck was answered with "this is between you and your dealer." Last Toyota I will ever buy.

Regarding low fluids, this is one thing that should be checked during PDI at the dealership as well as by the customer before signing the contract and driving off the lot. My dad had a 2014 Chevy he bought brand new that had no refrigerant in the AC system upon buying his new truck. He contacted the dealer and got squared away. This is dealership responsibility to correct, hence the reply. Not shilling for Toyota, but you'd likely get the same reply from any OEM as the dealer "owns" the vehicle once it leaves the plant/distributor until you sign the paperwork and drive it off the lot.

I plan on going to the dealership and giving my LX2610 a once-over before signing contracts. It is a good practice across the board as you are entrusting many different folks to do their job properly from mfg. through PDI.

 

[radas]

I agree that not all filters are made to the same standards. (I never use Fram for example.)
I have watched oil filter videos previously …..I’ll revisit to see if SuperTech filters are specifically mentioned…. (why didn’t you provide a “link”..?? I’ve searched and don’t see a “project farm” oil filter video.)
However, the SuperTech filter for the currently poplular Toyotas (Joisey also apparently uses the same type insert)…. are easy to see the relative quality because it is NOT a “spin on canister”….it’s an “elemnt” type filter…and virtually indistinguishable from the genuine Toyota filter. (The same held true for the element filter in our previously owned Saturn…in fact the SuperTech element filtes are apparently only re-packaged Genuine OEM.)
The SuperTech spin on canister filters are made by Purolator and made in America. While on the low-end of the scale for materials (they use nitrile instead of epdm for anti-drain valves) they are adequate for my purposes.

Here’s a shift: WHY did Toyota adopt ”element” type filters for their newest engines? I HATE ELEMENT FILTERS! They are messy. The Toyota element filter is the MESSIEST OF ALL. It requires you to remove a plug, insert a plastic drain-tool…(which does NOT drain all the oil anyway)….which then fails to accomplish its’ design by leaving enough oil in the element to make a HUGE MESS when the outer-container is finally removed (necessary to actually change the element).
ON TOP of that….Toyota made the canister out of THIN, CHEAP PLASTIC/RESIN which is easily fractured!
(in fact, the first oil change of the new Toyota was a “freebie” performed by the DEALER …and when I pulled into my driveway and allowed the engine to idle for awhile that canister suddenly let-go and DUMPED the entire gallon of oil in my drive!
Pretty Amazing considering it’s a 60 mile drive home from the dealer than it didn’t dump the oil somewhere out on the highway…but waited until I got home. It had been x-threaded/overtightened/both.)

It’d be another long round trip to the dealer to get another canister/part….so I looked locally and THANK GOD for O’REILLY’s ….. they sell an ALL ALUMINUM canister made by Dorman for about $30 which is what Toyota should use anyway …if they insist on that stoopid element type filter!

Spin on filter installations are usually poorly-designed also. It’s rare to find one that can be spun-off without dumping a quart of dirty oil everywhere. (WHY do some designs have the damn thing mounted open-side down..?) But as orginally conceived, a Spin On Filer would be a simple, quick, clean replacement….. then engineering screwed it up by making it messy via poor-orientation and location.

There is only one admirable feature of element filters I can think of: They make it mandatory to observe if large chunks of metal, etc. are being filtered from a failing engine. (one doesn’t have to cut-open the can)

Element filter changes don't have to be messy, during first OCI, I purchased the aluminum canister housing for piece of mind on my Tundra and left the composite one on the wife's Camry. Neither gave me problems as long as the correct wrench adapter was used to remove and the housing was reinstalled by hand. The canister evac "port" can be placed in a water bottle and pushed into the housing to capture 90% of the oil and brake clean flushes the rest out after removal. I could do both vehicle oil changes in 30 mins in the garage with a fumoto drain valve and the proper filter housing adapter. Aluminum or composite aside, sounds like your dealer oil change monkey cross threaded the housing, missed installing the new o ring on the housing or evac port, or overtightened the housing using the tool instead of installing by hand.

 

[fried1765]

I agree that not all filters are made to the same standards. (I never use Fram for example.)
I have watched oil filter videos previously …..I’ll revisit to see if SuperTech filters are specifically mentioned…. (why didn’t you provide a “link”..?? I’ve searched and don’t see a “project farm” oil filter video.)
However, the SuperTech filter for the currently poplular Toyotas (Joisey also apparently uses the same type insert)…. are easy to see the relative quality because it is NOT a “spin on canister”….it’s an “elemnt” type filter…and virtually indistinguishable from the genuine Toyota filter. (The same held true for the element filter in our previously owned Saturn…in fact the SuperTech element filtes are apparently only re-packaged Genuine OEM.)
The SuperTech spin on canister filters are made by Purolator and made in America. While on the low-end of the scale for materials (they use nitrile instead of epdm for anti-drain valves) they are adequate for my purposes.

Here’s a shift: WHY did Toyota adopt ”element” type filters for their newest engines? I HATE ELEMENT FILTERS! They are messy. The Toyota element filter is the MESSIEST OF ALL. It requires you to remove a plug, insert a plastic drain-tool…(which does NOT drain all the oil anyway)….which then fails to accomplish its’ design by leaving enough oil in the element to make a HUGE MESS when the outer-container is finally removed (necessary to actually change the element).
ON TOP of that….Toyota made the canister out of THIN, CHEAP PLASTIC/RESIN which is easily fractured!
(in fact, the first oil change of the new Toyota was a “freebie” performed by the DEALER …and when I pulled into my driveway and allowed the engine to idle for awhile that canister suddenly let-go and DUMPED the entire gallon of oil in my drive!
Pretty Amazing considering it’s a 60 mile drive home from the dealer than it didn’t dump the oil somewhere out on the highway…but waited until I got home. It had been x-threaded/overtightened/both.)

It’d be another long round trip to the dealer to get another canister/part….so I looked locally and THANK GOD for O’REILLY’s ….. they sell an ALL ALUMINUM canister made by Dorman for about $30 which is what Toyota should use anyway …if they insist on that stoopid element type filter!

Spin on filter installations are usually poorly-designed also. It’s rare to find one that can be spun-off without dumping a quart of dirty oil everywhere. (WHY do some designs have the damn thing mounted open-side down..?) But as orginally conceived, a Spin On Filer would be a simple, quick, clean replacement….. then engineering screwed it up by making it messy via poor-orientation and location.

There is only one admirable feature of element filters I can think of: They make it mandatory to observe if large chunks of metal, etc. are being filtered from a failing engine. (one doesn’t have to cut-open the can)

"why didn't you provide a link"

I watched an oil filter video, and I provided the SOURCE.
Is "Project Farm" not viewable in Canada?
You should be able to just Google "Project Farm", and you will find all sorts of other helpful information there too.
Google is a wonderful thing!

Oil Element filters?
It is SO easy to replace my Mercedes E-350 element filter!
I don't even need a rag!
I never spill more than one drop of oil!

 

[Joisey]

Regarding low fluids, this is one thing that should be checked during PDI at the dealership as well as by the customer before signing the contract and driving off the lot. My dad had a 2014 Chevy he bought brand new that had no refrigerant in the AC system upon buying his new truck. He contacted the dealer and got squared away. This is dealership responsibility to correct, hence the reply. Not shilling for Toyota, but you'd likely get the same reply from any OEM as the dealer "owns" the vehicle once it leaves the plant/distributor until you sign the paperwork and drive it off the lot.

I plan on going to the dealership and giving my LX2610 a once-over before signing contracts. It is a good practice across the board as you are entrusting many different folks to do their job properly from mfg. through PDI.

I have always checked anything that i have bought from end to end the day following purchase, whether used or new. My 06 GMC was only low on washer fluid. When I get my Kubota I will check all the fasteners and fluids. I guess that you could say that I have trust issues...LOL.

 

[Joisey]

I agree that not all filters are made to the same standards. (I never use Fram for example.)
I have watched oil filter videos previously …..I’ll revisit to see if SuperTech filters are specifically mentioned…. (why didn’t you provide a “link”..?? I’ve searched and don’t see a “project farm” oil filter video.)
However, the SuperTech filter for the currently poplular Toyotas (Joisey also apparently uses the same type insert)…. are easy to see the relative quality because it is NOT a “spin on canister”….it’s an “elemnt” type filter…and virtually indistinguishable from the genuine Toyota filter. (The same held true for the element filter in our previously owned Saturn…in fact the SuperTech element filtes are apparently only re-packaged Genuine OEM.)
The SuperTech spin on canister filters are made by Purolator and made in America. While on the low-end of the scale for materials (they use nitrile instead of epdm for anti-drain valves) they are adequate for my purposes.

Here’s a shift: WHY did Toyota adopt ”element” type filters for their newest engines? I HATE ELEMENT FILTERS! They are messy. The Toyota element filter is the MESSIEST OF ALL. It requires you to remove a plug, insert a plastic drain-tool…(which does NOT drain all the oil anyway)….which then fails to accomplish its’ design by leaving enough oil in the element to make a HUGE MESS when the outer-container is finally removed (necessary to actually change the element).
ON TOP of that….Toyota made the canister out of THIN, CHEAP PLASTIC/RESIN which is easily fractured!
(in fact, the first oil change of the new Toyota was a “freebie” performed by the DEALER …and when I pulled into my driveway and allowed the engine to idle for awhile that canister suddenly let-go and DUMPED the entire gallon of oil in my drive!
Pretty Amazing considering it’s a 60 mile drive home from the dealer than it didn’t dump the oil somewhere out on the highway…but waited until I got home. It had been x-threaded/overtightened/both.)

It’d be another long round trip to the dealer to get another canister/part….so I looked locally and THANK GOD for O’REILLY’s ….. they sell an ALL ALUMINUM canister made by Dorman for about $30 which is what Toyota should use anyway …if they insist on that stoopid element type filter!

Spin on filter installations are usually poorly-designed also. It’s rare to find one that can be spun-off without dumping a quart of dirty oil everywhere. (WHY do some designs have the damn thing mounted open-side down..?) But as orginally conceived, a Spin On Filer would be a simple, quick, clean replacement….. then engineering screwed it up by making it messy via poor-orientation and location.

There is only one admirable feature of element filters I can think of: They make it mandatory to observe if large chunks of metal, etc. are being filtered from a failing engine. (one doesn’t have to cut-open the can)

I bought the aluminum Toyota unit off of Amazon for $18. Don't trust plastic and hot oil mixing.

 

[radas]

I have always checked anything that i have bought from end to end the day following purchase, whether used or new. My 06 GMC was only low on washer fluid. When I get my Kubota I will check all the fasteners and fluids. I guess that you could say that I have trust issues...LOL.

Same here, there is so much potential for human error, it's easier to fix the issue before you hand the dealer your hard earned cash.

 

[radas]

I bought the aluminum Toyota unit off of Amazon for $18. Don't trust plastic and hot oil mixing.

I also opted for the aluminum on my old Tundra, but my wife's old Camry had no issues with the composite canister. Ford now uses a fully composite trans pan on their super duty trucks and when I worked in mfg. years ago, one engine plant had switched from an aluminum valve cover to composite - again, no issues. There are plenty of plastics out there that do well with oils, acids, etc... Shouldn't be a concern honestly.

 

[Joisey]

I also opted for the aluminum on my old Tundra, but my wife's old Camry had no issues with the composite canister. Ford now uses a fully composite trans pan on their super duty trucks and when I worked in mfg. years ago, one engine plant had switched from an aluminum valve cover to composite - again, no issues. There are plenty of plastics out there that do well with oils, acids, etc... Shouldn't be a concern honestly.

You are correct, it shouldn't be a problem. I just don't trust plastic and heat combined with pressure. By the time the oil lite comes on it is too late. God forbid they put in an actual oil pressure gauge. Asked the dealer why they didn't have an oil pressure or water temp gauge and he said that it "confused owners." The dumbing down of America. LOL.

 

[GeoHorn]

"why didn't you provide a link"

I watched an oil filter video, and I provided the SOURCE.
Is "Project Farm" not viewable in Canada?
You should be able to just Google "Project Farm", and you will find all sorts of other helpful information there too.
Google is a wonderful thing!

Oil Element filters?
It is SO easy to replace my Mercedes E-350 element filter!
I don't even need a rag!
I never spill more than one drop of oil!

I’m not in Canada. I did search Google. I also used the search-routine on You tube…and I still do not see any “Project Farm” comparison test video of spin on oil filters.
If you have a link…please post it.

 

[fried1765]

I’m not in Canada. I did search Google. I also used the search-routine on You tube…and I still do not see any “Project Farm” comparison test video of spin on oil filters.
If you have a link…please post it.

I am an old guy!
I don't know how to do the link thing, or post pictures.
That fancy internet manipulation stuff is for you young bucks!

 

[forky]

Here you go ....
Project Farm - YouTube

 

[GeoHorn]

Here you go ....
Project Farm - YouTube

That is a link to Each/Every video / test “Project Farm” has….and NONE of them are about oil filters.

I am an old guy!
I don't know how to do the link thing, or post pictures.
That fancy internet manipulation stuff is for you young bucks!

I’m guessing that the oil filter videos you watched were Not Actually from the “Project Farm” guy….but from one of the other videographers which “pop up” if you use the term “project farm” in the search. The one which most-often pops-up is actually a sales-gimmick from Amazon.

 

[fried1765]

That is a link to Each/Every video / test “Project Farm” has….and NONE of them are about oil filters.



I’m guessing that the oil filter videos you watched were Not Actually from the “Project Farm” guy….but from one of the other videographers which “pop up” if you use the term “project farm” in the search. The one which most-often pops-up is actually a sales-gimmick from Amazon.

Bad guess, .......The Project Farm video has apparently been taken down, for some unknown reason.

 

[forky]

Sorry for the lack of help... I didn't actually look for the specific video and just assumed it was there somewhere.

 

[GeoHorn]

Bad guess, .......The Project Farm video has apparently been taken down, for some unknown reason.

doppleganger ?