What to do when Dealer Relations go bad????

[hagrid]

They say we each have one.

 

[lugbolt]

I got lost in all of the words

if you can't get anywhere with the dealer itself, you'll then escalate it to kubota's customer service.

generally when customer service gets involved things get done. Maybe not the way the owner wants it done but something will get done. I say this because sometimes owners demand things irrationally and sometimes their demands aren't going to be possible for whatever reason

if customer service can't help, you can find a way to get help....move up the ladder...that'll take some searching to find contact information, though

been through it and as the "grease monkey" I had different contacts than sales and parts had. In all but one case, it got handled. That one, owner never showed back up after multiple requests for the equipment to be at the dealer. At that point there is no help if they can't make the equipment available for inspection and/or repair.

a lot of that stuff has changed now so don't go to a shop tech and ask him for a phone number...most of them no longer exist, most everything is done online now, and the people who answer the questions often are working remotely. Happening in a LOT of industries!

 

[Mark_BX25D]

...I called another close Kubota dealer, and he told me warranty work had to be done by the selling dealership.

That would be illegal if it were an automobile. I'm not sure if those laws apply to tractors, but I suggest you check it out. Also, find out if that really is Kubota's policy. I would not take the dealer's word for it. Sometimes they consider warranty work to be more nuisance than they are worth, so he might have lied to you.

Of course, if he did, you now know you don't want to do business with him anyway.

 

[Mark_BX25D]

re: 32 acres is not a “ranch”.

Depending on the location, it is if there's animals being raised/graised on it. It'd be a 'farm' if crops grown, with/without a cow or two.

Location and jurisdiction is key.

Yep. Where I live, that's a respectable farm. Out west? It's a respectable front yard.

 

[lynnmor]

My warranty booklet says this:

How to Obtain Warranty Service
To obtain warranty service under the terms and conditions of the Kubota Limited Warranty, you must
deliver the product to an authorized Kubota dealer, along with proof of purchase. Kubota recommends
that you take your equipment to the dealer from whom it was purchased for the warranty repair. If
that is inconvenient, it may be taken to any authorized Kubota dealer.

 

[fried1765]

"why didn't you provide a link"

I watched an oil filter video, and I provided the SOURCE.
Is "Project Farm" not viewable in Canada?
You should be able to just Google "Project Farm", and you will find all sorts of other helpful information there too.
Google is a wonderful thing!

Oil Element filters?
It is SO easy to replace my Mercedes E-350 element filter!
I don't even need a rag!
I never spill more than one drop of oil!

Edit: My bad!
It seems that Neil Messick was the one who did the oil filter video.
It WAS NOT on Project Farm!
Sorry!

 

[lugbolt]

That would be illegal if it were an automobile. I'm not sure if those laws apply to tractors, but I suggest you check it out. Also, find out if that really is Kubota's policy. I would not take the dealer's word for it. Sometimes they consider warranty work to be more nuisance than they are worth, so he might have lied to you.

I am not sure of it's legality, but the dealer agreement specifically states that dealers cannot turn away warranty work.

But the way that some do it is to let the consumer know that they are 13 or however months or years backlogged.

Used to, warranty work paid little to nothing. That's been changing in the last few years. Before I left the dealer I liked doing warranty work better than I did customer-pay. One reason, it is all flat-rate labor meaning Kubota sets a specific amount of labor time to do a task. In years past, that rate was so low that it was impossible to do it, thus a tech that worked on commission such as I, lost money. And because of that, techs didn't do warranty repairs. Oftentimes the A and B techs didn't, but they had another tech that may have been inexperienced, new, whatever...got to do it. They were usually salary paid. Once Kubota (and others) started improving their flat labor rates, the A & B techs quickly learned that they could make some money on them, and now they often go right for warranty jobs before customer-paid jobs.

For instance, if a recall job flat rate was 4.1 hours, and the tech could do it in 3.0 hours, and do 2 sometimes 3 a day, he made money (4.1 x 3=12.3 hr, in an 8 hour work day). There was one in particular that total flat rate was 5.6 hours, and I was doing them in just a hair under 2 hours. Good pay. Would have been better if the boss paid our commission a little different but whatever I ain't doing it no more.

It's actually rarer now than it was for dealers to turn away warranty jobs.

Consider that the costs to run a service department have skyrocketed, and the only ways they can recover that is to increase the labor rates. $150/hr is not as uncommon as it used to be. BUT....customers that have equipment that is out of warranty often will take their equipment to an independent shop, which often sells their labor at a much reduced rate.

So with all that said, it's slowly becoming fact that dealer service department are becoming warranty mills, which to me is unfortunate.

About the only time I hated warranty repair work was when the equipment showed up with a ton or more of dirt/mud clippings on it. Kubota doesn't like to pay cleaning time. They used to but they took that mostly away and now you have to ask them for it and hope you get it.

"so let the new cleaning boy wash it".

You gotta pay a cleaning boy $20+/hr + insurance or he ain't sticking around. That's why it's a high turnover job. I had one working under me once, had him washing a M7040HDC. It was nasty! Had been stuck in a pond, hauled in by wrecker and then he got to wash it off. Couple hours later I walked down to the wash bay and he's nowhere to be found? Tractor was half washed, power washer still running, kid's nowhere? He just left. Quit. Just jumped in the truck and gone. I called him and asked where he was at and he said he's looking for another job because that one sucked. They were paying him $15.50/hr and also paying his insurance. Don't sound like much but when you're 17, it's not bad money. I guess he thought McDonalds pays better. In his defense I can't blame him for leaving. It was hot out there in summer, cold in winter, ice on the wash bay floors often, no drainage so you're standing in it all the time, the power washer sucked, the boss was a jerk, truly a thankless job.

 

[Deleted member 47704]

I am not sure of it's legality, but the dealer agreement specifically states that dealers cannot turn away warranty work.

But the way that some do it is to let the consumer know that they are 13 or however months or years backlogged.

Used to, warranty work paid little to nothing. That's been changing in the last few years. Before I left the dealer I liked doing warranty work better than I did customer-pay. One reason, it is all flat-rate labor meaning Kubota sets a specific amount of labor time to do a task. In years past, that rate was so low that it was impossible to do it, thus a tech that worked on commission such as I, lost money. And because of that, techs didn't do warranty repairs. Oftentimes the A and B techs didn't, but they had another tech that may have been inexperienced, new, whatever...got to do it. They were usually salary paid. Once Kubota (and others) started improving their flat labor rates, the A & B techs quickly learned that they could make some money on them, and now they often go right for warranty jobs before customer-paid jobs.

For instance, if a recall job flat rate was 4.1 hours, and the tech could do it in 3.0 hours, and do 2 sometimes 3 a day, he made money (4.1 x 3=12.3 hr, in an 8 hour work day). There was one in particular that total flat rate was 5.6 hours, and I was doing them in just a hair under 2 hours. Good pay. Would have been better if the boss paid our commission a little different but whatever I ain't doing it no more.

It's actually rarer now than it was for dealers to turn away warranty jobs.

Consider that the costs to run a service department have skyrocketed, and the only ways they can recover that is to increase the labor rates. $150/hr is not as uncommon as it used to be. BUT....customers that have equipment that is out of warranty often will take their equipment to an independent shop, which often sells their labor at a much reduced rate.

So with all that said, it's slowly becoming fact that dealer service department are becoming warranty mills, which to me is unfortunate.

About the only time I hated warranty repair work was when the equipment showed up with a ton or more of dirt/mud clippings on it. Kubota doesn't like to pay cleaning time. They used to but they took that mostly away and now you have to ask them for it and hope you get it.

"so let the new cleaning boy wash it".

You gotta pay a cleaning boy $20+/hr + insurance or he ain't sticking around. That's why it's a high turnover job. I had one working under me once, had him washing a M7040HDC. It was nasty! Had been stuck in a pond, hauled in by wrecker and then he got to wash it off. Couple hours later I walked down to the wash bay and he's nowhere to be found? Tractor was half washed, power washer still running, kid's nowhere? He just left. Quit. Just jumped in the truck and gone. I called him and asked where he was at and he said he's looking for another job because that one sucked. They were paying him $15.50/hr and also paying his insurance. Don't sound like much but when you're 17, it's not bad money. I guess he thought McDonalds pays better. In his defense I can't blame him for leaving. It was hot out there in summer, cold in winter, ice on the wash bay floors often, no drainage so you're standing in it all the time, the power washer sucked, the boss was a jerk, truly a thankless job.

You don't throw some one with little of no experience on a difficult job alone.They get over whelmed and can't deal with it, you have to lay out a plan for dealing with such projects,then check in every so often, min wage employees are min wage because they don't know how to handle such projects.
Plus the customer has a lot of nerve not taking care of their equipment and dumping the problem on you.

 

[Dieseldonato]

It's not uncommon for people not to clean their equipment. Doesn't matter if it's a car, tractor, or dozer. It's a tool meant to do a job, nothing more.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

man I'd love the cleaning job,.... someone PAYING me $20 hr. for a job no one pays me now to do !!!!

 

[Deleted member 47704]

It's not uncommon for people not to clean their equipment. Doesn't matter if it's a car, tractor, or dozer. It's a tool meant to do a job, nothing more.

I work in manufacturing, dirty tools are not tolerated.if a machine gets filthy dirty no one wants to maintain them,check fluids etc Its a sign of an unprofessional operation and a sign of a lack of quality.

 

[DustyRusty]

The guy that washes and details my tractor has a college degree, and never compains about the work. I once had a horse that was a good worker, so I gave him one day a week off with hay.

 

[Dieseldonato]

I work in manufacturing, dirty tools are not tolerated.if a machine gets filthy dirty no one wants to maintain them,check fluids etc Its a sign of an unprofessional operation and a sign of a lack of quality.

I worked Industrial diesel and heavy equipment. Dirt was expected, but cleaning wad also expected when the equipment needed worked on. Just rarely happened if you (i) didn't do it. Didderent world's I guess. I would never put a greasy wrench back in my box, amd my personal equipment is kept pretty clean during use and always clean if work needs preformed. Less dirt on the out side means less can get inside.

 

[lugbolt]

place I worked at was primarily L&G equipment (a few hundred mowers a year) and then some tractors. By far, the greater income producer was L&G (mowers). There's more money in a tractor sale but when you combine volume, mowers won out.

Mowers run in terrible conditions. Starting about middle of March, they are used weekly sometimes even more often. It's often muddy from March through about July, and then again Sept through Nov it starts getting muddy then too. Rare for people to actually clean their mowers. Often, the belt and/or drive shaft system on the top of the deck is invisible through the clippings. Rear discharge mowers you can't even see the transmission(s). I've pulled air filters out that would not pass enough air to even run.

Techs get paid to wrench. They don't get paid to wash stuff, as I stated before. If flat rate to service a piece of equipment is 1 hour and I spend 1 hour washing it so that I can service it, I just lost an hour's shop time. So then you (A) work on dirty equipment or (B) suck up a loss, and you can't do that forever, or (C) hire a wash boy and pay him...hopefully a decent wage so he sticks around. Then you have to pay him, somehow, which means the money's gotta come from somewhere. It don't grow on trees unless you're farming peaches or oranges or apples....and I ain't doing none of those.

A wash tech is a high turnover job because one, it doesn't pay anything (it can't), and two you ain't finding just anyone who actually enjoys doing it. That can change--at most dealers anyway.

What we do where I am at now (not tractors) is give customers an option. Writer goes outside to the customer's equipment to get the serial number and if it's really dirty they'll ask 'em if they're gonna pay us to wash it or go to a car wash nextdoor. Most of the time they pay us. Now then, if they let us do it, we'll give them a tiered detail option. Level 1, wash the mud off. Level 2, wash the mud off and then wipe the exterior down. Level 3 is a full detail. Pricing increases the higher you go in tier. Some are paying full pop ($249) for a level 3 detail BUT they also expect it to be perfect which is very hard to do on off-road equipment without a full tear-down of the body work. We budget 3 hours for a top level detail. And they pay the detail guy pretty well but again it's not an easy job (outside). I've had some guys want us to pull all the body work off and wash all the frame/engine/trans/drivetrain off. That costs. Then I've had some just say don't wash it and I'll do it when I get it back. The detail shop is heated in the winter but no a/c. Even though we pay them pretty good, they don't stick around. We had 4 last year 3 the year before and 2 so far this year. it's nasty work. Just mud and occasionally poo from the horse and cattle farms. One pig farmer-we don't even bother washing his stuff, we just tell him to take it to the car wash before he shows up. Some guys take great care of their stuff and it shows, others "treat it like a tractor (or in our case off-road equipment). Duck hunters are the absolute worst. use it all season in flooded rice fields and drop it off for service. Part of servicing is checking things out. Well it's hard to check stuff out when you can't even see it. Axles? CV boots? Driveshafts? Engines in some case? Transmissions? Invisible. Front differential invisible. 8-10" thick on top of skid plates. I've removed over 400 lbs of mud/rice from skid plates before (Ranger crew). I know it had to be over that because the BX tractor we use around the shop wouldn't pick it up after I swept/shoveled it into the little bitty bucket.

I'd love to be able to pay a guy $50/hr to wash equipment but that also means I'd have to quadruple what we charge to do it and people just ain't gonna pay that. Business isn't about sucking up every cost, because that's not possible-and still stay in business. Same principle at your home's finances, but (usually) at a larger scale. If your income goes down, you either have to get more income to pay your bills, tap into your savings, or you go bankrupt. People often think businesses have millions in savings, but most don't have enough to cover 1 years' worth of bills. Most business owners aren't really that wealthy either. I didn't say all, I said most. Those that run a business, you know what I'm talking about.

someone said you shouldn't hire inexperience. I don't totally disagree with that but finding anyone who wants to work in general, is TOUGH. Most younger people want instant gratification, e.g.-they want doctor's pay on zero effort and little to no responsibility. Just ain't happening. If dealers didn't hire inexperience, I'd have never gotten into the business when I was just 16 years old. I ain't the greatest tech on earth but I work my heart out (literally...I have some heart issues) to please people, and I had a boss that recognized that.

 

[D2Cat]

The guy that washes and details my tractor has a college degree, and never compains about the work. I once had a horse that was a good worker, so I gave him one day a week off with hay.

It does makes a big difference if the owner is the detailer. And you know what happens to a horse that isn't rested and fed..... you become the horse!

 

[GeoHorn]

It does makes a big difference if the owner is the detailer. And you know what happens to a horse that isn't rested and fed..... you become the horse!

Tevye ended up pulling the milk-cart when his horse went lame…right?

 

[Dieseldonato]

place I worked at was primarily L&G equipment (a few hundred mowers a year) and then some tractors. By far, the greater income producer was L&G (mowers). There's more money in a tractor sale but when you combine volume, mowers won out.

Mowers run in terrible conditions. Starting about middle of March, they are used weekly sometimes even more often. It's often muddy from March through about July, and then again Sept through Nov it starts getting muddy then too. Rare for people to actually clean their mowers. Often, the belt and/or drive shaft system on the top of the deck is invisible through the clippings. Rear discharge mowers you can't even see the transmission(s). I've pulled air filters out that would not pass enough air to even run.

Techs get paid to wrench. They don't get paid to wash stuff, as I stated before. If flat rate to service a piece of equipment is 1 hour and I spend 1 hour washing it so that I can service it, I just lost an hour's shop time. So then you (A) work on dirty equipment or (B) suck up a loss, and you can't do that forever, or (C) hire a wash boy and pay him...hopefully a decent wage so he sticks around. Then you have to pay him, somehow, which means the money's gotta come from somewhere. It don't grow on trees unless you're farming peaches or oranges or apples....and I ain't doing none of those.

A wash tech is a high turnover job because one, it doesn't pay anything (it can't), and two you ain't finding just anyone who actually enjoys doing it. That can change--at most dealers anyway.

What we do where I am at now (not tractors) is give customers an option. Writer goes outside to the customer's equipment to get the serial number and if it's really dirty they'll ask 'em if they're gonna pay us to wash it or go to a car wash nextdoor. Most of the time they pay us. Now then, if they let us do it, we'll give them a tiered detail option. Level 1, wash the mud off. Level 2, wash the mud off and then wipe the exterior down. Level 3 is a full detail. Pricing increases the higher you go in tier. Some are paying full pop ($249) for a level 3 detail BUT they also expect it to be perfect which is very hard to do on off-road equipment without a full tear-down of the body work. We budget 3 hours for a top level detail. And they pay the detail guy pretty well but again it's not an easy job (outside). I've had some guys want us to pull all the body work off and wash all the frame/engine/trans/drivetrain off. That costs. Then I've had some just say don't wash it and I'll do it when I get it back. The detail shop is heated in the winter but no a/c. Even though we pay them pretty good, they don't stick around. We had 4 last year 3 the year before and 2 so far this year. it's nasty work. Just mud and occasionally poo from the horse and cattle farms. One pig farmer-we don't even bother washing his stuff, we just tell him to take it to the car wash before he shows up. Some guys take great care of their stuff and it shows, others "treat it like a tractor (or in our case off-road equipment). Duck hunters are the absolute worst. use it all season in flooded rice fields and drop it off for service. Part of servicing is checking things out. Well it's hard to check stuff out when you can't even see it. Axles? CV boots? Driveshafts? Engines in some case? Transmissions? Invisible. Front differential invisible. 8-10" thick on top of skid plates. I've removed over 400 lbs of mud/rice from skid plates before (Ranger crew). I know it had to be over that because the BX tractor we use around the shop wouldn't pick it up after I swept/shoveled it into the little bitty bucket.

I'd love to be able to pay a guy $50/hr to wash equipment but that also means I'd have to quadruple what we charge to do it and people just ain't gonna pay that. Business isn't about sucking up every cost, because that's not possible-and still stay in business. Same principle at your home's finances, but (usually) at a larger scale. If your income goes down, you either have to get more income to pay your bills, tap into your savings, or you go bankrupt. People often think businesses have millions in savings, but most don't have enough to cover 1 years' worth of bills. Most business owners aren't really that wealthy either. I didn't say all, I said most. Those that run a business, you know what I'm talking about.

someone said you shouldn't hire inexperience. I don't totally disagree with that but finding anyone who wants to work in general, is TOUGH. Most younger people want instant gratification, e.g.-they want doctor's pay on zero effort and little to no responsibility. Just ain't happening. If dealers didn't hire inexperience, I'd have never gotten into the business when I was just 16 years old. I ain't the greatest tech on earth but I work my heart out (literally...I have some heart issues) to please people, and I had a boss that recognized that.

I started off in high-school in the cleaning department of the machine shop side of the business. After some time went by I was moved over to rebuild, then road service. Out side of the training the company sent me for it was all hands on. Now that was quite some time ago now. However I've always been a fan of getting the kids hands dirty and on the job training. I started at $7.00 an hour and left making $17.00 an hour. The place I work now start close to $30.00 an hour, still can't get good help. The kids just don't want to work these days. Actually doesn't seem like anyone wants to work these days.

 

[Daren Todd]

It's not uncommon for people not to clean their equipment. Doesn't matter if it's a car, tractor, or dozer. It's a tool meant to do a job, nothing more.

I've sure fished my share of crawdads and other critters out of some unique places when one of my pieces of equipment was submerged.

I'm one of the few people that actually will take the time to wash off my equipment before taking it to the shop.

But then I've been on the receiving end and washing something for a couple hours before being able to diagnose an issue as well. So I know what it's like.