Water Well Advice

[NorthwoodsLife]

So, I'm looking for advice from those who have a well system or are professionals in the business. I'm going to have a couple water well companies come out and examine my water well and system. But I'd like your folks' input because this is my first well system, and I don't want to be too ignorant and replace things I don't need to replace. Or dig a new well if I don't need to.

My system is a typical pump in the bottom of the well, which goes thru a pressure tank set at 40 PSI on the surface. Then into the house, water heater, etc.

I've been getting air in the water lines which is evident by sputtering water. Usually when taking a shower.

Searching for a solution online, it seems that the problem could be:

1> The well is running dry. Which is totally hard to believe because this is a very wet area in the forest. We have a year around stream and local marshland. But I don't know the well depth. Can't find it in the title or deed of the property.

2> The check valve in the well is bad, allowing air into the line.

3> The water heater is going bad. The water heater is 30 years old. It's not leaking at all. Seems to work fine. But it's old. I'll be replacing that propane unit with an electric unit due to the price of propane.

As I said, the pressure tank is set at 40 PSI and seems fine.

And advice would be awesome.

Thank you.

 

[MINICUP28]

The first thing to check would be the pressure tank. I've never had one last more than 7-10 years.
They usually signal end of life by clogging my water filters with large amounts of rust particles.
Do you have a drilled well with a 6" well casing that has a removable top cap? If s, you can measure the well depth and water level with a long tape measure. For total depth I put a weight on the end, for the water level I put a 6" wooden block on the end to measure when it floats on the water.
If you don't know the location of the well, you can follow the electric line with an underground cable tracer. Probably too expensive to buy but you may know someone that works for a cable or elec. company.
The foot valve is also a suspect. I would look for the output directly at the line from the well.

 

[NorthwoodsLife]

The first thing to check would be the pressure tank. I've never had one last more than 7-10 years.
They usually signal end of life by clogging my water filters with large amounts of rust particles.
Do you have a drilled well with a 6" well casing that has a removable top cap? If s, you can measure the well depth and water level with a long tape measure. For total depth I put a weight on the end, for the water level I put a 6" wooden block on the end to measure when it floats on the water.
If you don't know the location of the well, you can follow the electric line with an underground cable tracer. Probably too expensive to buy but you may know someone that works for a cable or elec. company.
The foot valve is also a suspect. I would look for the output directly at the line from the well.

Outstanding information! Thank You.

I know where the well and well cap is. Well cap appears to be removable. I can't verify right now but it's enclosed in a building. I'm not home right now but can check in a couple days. But I believe that it's a 6" OD pipe.

As for the pressure tank, it's in pretty good "looking" shape, but it's indoors. replacing that is a lot cheaper than drilling a new well. I'll replace that.

I don't know how old the well pump is, or the check valve in the line.

What is a foot valve?

 

[Biker1mike]

Usually , if air is getting in - water is getting out. If all the water is OFF in the house you can watch the pressure gauge at the pressure tank. If it cycles every now and then you have a leak between the house and the well. Been there done that.
Surface water levels can be far from well depths. I have running streams and damp areas on my property but the well is 650 deep.
My well line has torque control disc every so many feet down. This controls any line twist from the pump kicking on. I say this so you think twice before putting anything down the pipe to measure the depth.
In most cases when you run the well dry the pump will kick off and need to be reset. I have an auto reset after so many minutes. I can run my well dry due to slow recharge.
At a minimum get documentation of well depth , head depth, recharge rate, and pump size. If any thing changes in the future you have a baseline to work with.
Good luck

 

[Biker1mike]

Foot valve is a one way valve in the pump that stops water from flowing out of the pipe and back into the well.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

I think you can rule out 3. Never heard of and don't see any way for the water heater to let air in.

I think the most likely place for air to get in is in the tank. Do you know if your storage tank is a bladder style? Most newer ones are. Could be a hole in the bladder.

You say your pressure tank is set at 40#, but pressure control switches typically have a 20# difference between custom and cutoff. This is to allow some water usage without cycling the pump. Typical settings are cuton/cutoff at 20/40, 35/50, or 40/60. You need to know this for troubleshooting and for precharging the tank properly. If the precharge is too high, you lose storage capacity and air can leak into the water if there is a hole in the bladder.

 

[GSD-Keegan]

My first thoughts are to check the well and depth or height of the water as compared to the pick up line and foot valve. Your gettting air when showering….or higher consumption of water. Is your well water level running below the pick up or foot valve and thus drawing air in? A foot valve is basically a check valve to allow water to flow to your house and not drain back into the well. I have a well, as WELL as my neighbours. My close neighbour recently had issues with air being pulled into his system. He found loose clamps in his well. Replaced them and so far so good. In my efforts to help him, I learned a well system can create quite a vacuum, and draw in air at loose connections, however the same loose connection will not show signs of water leaking. One suggestion I read was to use shaving foam on any suspect connection. Run the pump, and if the foam is drawn into the connection….it is also drawing in air. GOOD LUCK! Keep us posted, cuz I for one will be curious!

 

[GSD-Keegan]

Suppose I should have asked if your well was a dug or shallow well vs a drilled deep well.

 

[michigander]

Wells | Wisconsin DNR

dnr.wisconsin.gov

You may be able to find your well info ?. At least maybe some neighbors.

 

[NorthwoodsLife]

Suppose I should have asked if your well was a dug or shallow well vs a drilled deep well.

It's a drilled deep well.

There's been a bit of "new" construction done on this property over the many years. The well cap was 8 feet away from the house initially in 1987. The house was expanded and now the well cap is indoors, almost in the house now. Fortunately, it's a grandfathered in situation. And fortunately, it is only under a roof overhang so if I need to pull the well water line, pump, check or foot valve, it won't be too much trouble.

 

[NorthwoodsLife]

Wells | Wisconsin DNR

dnr.wisconsin.gov

You may be able to find your well info ?. At least maybe some neighbors.

i talked to my neighbors, mostly farmers. Really awesome and friendly people. But.... No one knows anything about the well on my property. I spoke to the previous owner, got the same reply.

I'll look into the link that you sent.

 

[mcfarmall]

Township or local governing authority should have your well and septic information on file.

 

[RBsingl]

When I bought my place 32 years ago, the existing well had a crack develop in a coupling above the water level a few feet below the pitless adapter. When the pump would start, it would force the air in the line into the pressure tank so the bladder type tank had a mix of air and water. The well service company replaced it and all was OK.

But I did have a new well drilled about 20 years ago because the original well was in the upper aquifer with fine sand that was a pain with constantly changing filters. My newer well has the screen and pump at the 220 foot level with about 60 feet of water on top and it is in a very coarse sand/gravel part of the aquifer. I change the whole house filter once every couple of years but with this well it never really catches anything in the filter.

For good life from a bladder storage type tank, the pressure has to be set properly and then checked at least yearly because most tanks will lose some over time (valve seepage I guess). You will lose some of your drawdown capacity when this happens and the pump/tank will cycle more often. The company that put in my new well are 5th generation well drillers that are extremely good. They told me when you buy a well pump, you are buying X number of start/stop cycles and the more drawdown capacity you have the better for the pump and tanks. I use a couple of fairly large captive storage tanks in parallel which gives me about 45 gallons of drawdown. That was also handy before I put a big generator in because I would shut other stuff off when the well pump needed to run but the deep well pump doesn't phase the 40 KW diesel standby generator I installed a few years ago.

Rodger

 

[NorthwoodsLife]

Wells | Wisconsin DNR

dnr.wisconsin.gov

You may be able to find your well info ?. At least maybe some neighbors.

I'm striking out. But thank you for that link! I looked for something like that for hours and found nothing. You post it and there it is!

In that link, ran it by Section, Township, and Range. And even address. Got zero. I learned all about my neighbors' wells though.

It looks like I'll throw myself at the mercy of a couple Well companies for an inspection.

I don't want to pull the pump out and replace it. But depending on what the professionals say it wouldn't hurt too much to do that. I could replace the check or foot valve, and the water pipe and electrical wires as well. Once I pull those, I should be able to drop down a line and at least get my water depth and well depth with a wood block or weight, respectively. right?

 

[NorthwoodsLife]

When I bought my place 32 years ago, the existing well had a crack develop in a coupling above the water level a few feet below the pitless adapter. When the pump would start, it would force the air in the line into the pressure tank so the bladder type tank had a mix of air and water. The well service company replaced it and all was OK.

But I did have a new well drilled about 20 years ago because the original well was in the upper aquifer with fine sand that was a pain with constantly changing filters. My newer well has the screen and pump at the 220 foot level with about 60 feet of water on top and it is in a very coarse sand/gravel part of the aquifer. I change the whole house filter once every couple of years but with this well it never really catches anything in the filter.

For good life from a bladder storage type tank, the pressure has to be set properly and then checked at least yearly because most tanks will lose some over time (valve seepage I guess). You will lose some of your drawdown capacity when this happens and the pump/tank will cycle more often. The company that put in my new well are 5th generation well drillers that are extremely good. They told me when you buy a well pump, you are buying X number of start/stop cycles and the more drawdown capacity you have the better for the pump and tanks. I use a couple of fairly large captive storage tanks in parallel which gives me about 45 gallons of drawdown. That was also handy before I put a big generator in because I would shut other stuff off when the well pump needed to run but the deep well pump doesn't phase the 40 KW diesel standby generator I installed a few years ago.

Rodger

Thank you. Great information!

 

[NorthwoodsLife]

Township or local governing authority should have your well and septic information on file.

I'll look into that.

 

[RBsingl]

Thank you. Great information!

You are welcome! Good luck with getting the problem fixed.

Good well people are worth their weight in gold. I became and stayed friends with the family who drilled my well. These are some photos I took of them on a drilling site a couple of years after they installed my well.

Rodger

 

[NorthwoodsLife]

Usually , if air is getting in - water is getting out. If all the water is OFF in the house you can watch the pressure gauge at the pressure tank. If it cycles every now and then you have a leak between the house and the well. Been there done that.
Surface water levels can be far from well depths. I have running streams and damp areas on my property but the well is 650 deep.
My well line has torque control disc every so many feet down. This controls any line twist from the pump kicking on. I say this so you think twice before putting anything down the pipe to measure the depth.
In most cases when you run the well dry the pump will kick off and need to be reset. I have an auto reset after so many minutes. I can run my well dry due to slow recharge.
At a minimum get documentation of well depth , head depth, recharge rate, and pump size. If any thing changes in the future you have a baseline to work with.
Good luck

You mentioned an issue that I have too. My pressure level in the pressure tank never seems to change. It's always at 40 PSI. Broken guage? Maybe.

Even when I shut the place down for the winter, drained the water lines, shut off the well pump, etc. The pressure tank still read 40 PSI. I figured that it's because it's a bladder type tank.

 

[radas]

Your local department of health and safety should have your well/septic info on file. They may charge you a fee to download or you can contact them to help you locate. Ours is on the county's health and human services site under water & sewer info.

 

[radas]

You mentioned an issue that I have too. My pressure level in the pressure tank never seems to change. It's always at 40 PSI. Broken guage? Maybe.

Even when I shut the place down for the winter, drained the water lines, shut off the well pump, etc. The pressure tank still read 40 PSI. I figured that it's because it's a bladder type tank.

If you shut off the well pump switch and drain your bladder tank or run a faucet, that pressure should drop. If it doesn't, you have a faulty gauge (I haven't seen one go bad personally unless it may be clogged with rust/debris).