Water Well Advice

[NorthwoodsLife]

You are welcome! Good luck with getting the problem fixed.

Good well people are worth their weight in gold. I became and stayed friends with the family who drilled my well. These are some photos I took of them on a drilling site a couple of years after they installed my well.

Rodger

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If you shut off the well pump switch and drain your bladder tank or run a faucet, that pressure should drop. If it doesn't, you have a faulty gauge (I haven't seen one go bad personally unless it may be clogged with rust/debris).

This past winter I blew out the lines after draining the water lines, water heater, pressure tank. After shutting the well pump off thru the circuit breaker. Guage on pressure tank still read 40 PSI. A neighbor said that's normal because it's a bladder system. I thought that he might be wrong at the time...

 

[RBsingl]

This past winter I blew out the lines after draining the water lines, water heater, pressure tank. After shutting the well pump off thru the circuit breaker. Guage on pressure tank still read 40 PSI. A neighbor said that's normal because it's a bladder system. I thought that he might be wrong at the time...

The water pressure gauge on the bladder system will vary from the cut in pressure through the cut out pressure as the tank goes between full and near empty so if it is not moving, the pointer is probably stuck. In typical operation, you will see it varying from 40-60 PSI (or 30-50 if you use the lower common pressure switch range).

With the storage tank empty (pump breaker shut off and the water system open at a low point like the water heater drain), take the pressure reading at the air chuck on the tank using an accurate gauge and it should be 2 psi lower than the pump control switch cut in (start) pressure setting. For example if your system has a pressure switch set for 40/60 psi, the tank should have 38 PSI of air pressure (and your water pressure gauge would be reading zero at this point).

To protect the pump, make sure you have a good quality surge suppressor installed with its own good ground bonded to the main electrical system ground. This is important with traditional type pumps and even more critical with the more complex variable rate pumps which are even more prone to damage from lightning induced voltage surges.

Rodger

 

[PoTreeBoy]

This past winter I blew out the lines after draining the water lines, water heater, pressure tank. After shutting the well pump off thru the circuit breaker. Guage on pressure tank still read 40 PSI. A neighbor said that's normal because it's a bladder system. I thought that he might be wrong at the time...

You also need a gauge on the line feeding the tank, so you'll know your cuton/cutoff pressures.

Turn a faucet on, note the pressure your pump kicks on, you'll hear the pressure switch click. Then turn the faucet off and let the tank fill and note the cutoff pressure. Turn the pump off and drain the tank completely, noticing if you get air out toward the end. Then set the precharge pressure correctly, 2 - 5 psi less than the cuton pressure. Then turn the pump back on and let it fill the tank. Do not adjust the precharge except when the tank is empty.

 

[NorthwoodsLife]

From everything everyone is saying, I think that I'll be better off replacing the pressure tank, and adding an additional pressure valve before the well pump line goes into the pressure tank. My system doesn't have that.

It also doesn't have a water filter btwn the tank and the house. I have considered putting one in primarily for sediment.

We bought the property last year and the certified water test results were very good. Basically, the water was within parameters to be potable and drinkable.

But I think I'd like some type of filter for sediment.

 

[NorthwoodsLife]

The water pressure gauge on the bladder system will vary from the cut in pressure through the cut out pressure as the tank goes between full and near empty so if it is not moving, the pointer is probably stuck. In typical operation, you will see it varying from 40-60 PSI (or 30-50 if you use the lower common pressure switch range).

With the storage tank empty (pump breaker shut off and the water system open at a low point like the water heater drain), take the pressure reading at the air chuck on the tank using an accurate gauge and it should be 2 psi lower than the pump control switch cut in (start) pressure setting. For example if your system has a pressure switch set for 40/60 psi, the tank should have 38 PSI of air pressure (and your water pressure gauge would be reading zero at this point).

To protect the pump, make sure you have a good quality surge suppressor installed with its own good ground bonded to the main electrical system ground. This is important with traditional type pumps and even more critical with the more complex variable rate pumps which are even more prone to damage from lightning induced voltage surges.

Rodger

The water well pump is on a separate circuit thru it's own circuit breaker.

Am I missing something?

 

[jyoutz]

From everything everyone is saying, I think that I'll be better off replacing the pressure tank, and adding an additional pressure valve before the well pump line goes into the pressure tank. My system doesn't have that.

It also doesn't have a water filter btwn the tank and the house. I have considered putting one in primarily for sediment.

We bought the property last year and the certified water test results were very good. Basically, the water was within parameters to be potable and drinkable.

But I think I'd like some type of filter for sediment.

Depends on your water. I have a 700’ we’ll with the pump at 680’. We have no sediment filter and have never had any sediment in the water. Don’t install one if you don’t need it. Just something else to maintain.

 

[Motion]

As others have said you need to know the water level with the pump off, submersible pumps should be placed below the water level plus the draw down depth. If the strainer is particial clogged or the water table is dropping then when the pump comes on and can't grab water, it'll pull air. Are you sure you have a bladder tank? Generally there's a check valve with two ports between the pump and tank, one on the tank side is for you pressure switch and the other between the pump and check has a air release valve to to allow air to a into the discharge pipe so as not to dead head the pump on start up, when the pump comes it pushes that amount of air into the tank, excess air is removed by the tank air volume valve which may be at fault.

 

[RBsingl]

The water well pump is on a separate circuit thru it's own circuit breaker.

Am I missing something?

If you have a good quality whole house surge suppressor it will be OK but otherwise use a good quality unit tied to the two pole breaker feeding the pump. I put in mil spec suppressors at the panel where the line comes in to my distribution system and additional suppressors at the panel in the house, barn, and both garages.

A couple of years after I bought the house, I lost a bunch of stuff to a lightning surge but in the thirty years since no more damage. The only side effect of the high quality suppressors is a little light flickering when storms are near due to the surge suppressors doing their thing. Before I put in my diesel generator, the waveform from the 10KW portable gas unit was dirty enough that you could hear the noise filter components that are part of the suppressors "singing" along with the generator as they bypassed hash on the line to ground. My new generator produces a perfect waveform like commercial power so no more sound from the mains suppressors when it is running.

Rodger

 

[BAP]

In NH, well companies have to file reports with the state for every well drilled which can be looked up at a later time. If your well was put in in 1987 and the pump has never been replaced, then it could very be worn out. That is an extremely long time for a well pump. The pump could actually have wear in the physical components allowing water to leak. If that’s the case, not only could you be getting air in, but water leaking out causing the pump to run and increasing your power bill. A good well pump installer can assess your problem and figure out what is wrong without just blindly throwing in new parts. A good whole house water is worth putting in. It doesn’t cost much and keeps out course material if any is present.

 

[RBsingl]

Another advantage of the whole house filter is it will catch anything knocked loose from the down pipe/casing/screen when service work is done on the well. Around here there is enough iron in the water that there is always going to be some "slime" buildup that will get disturbed when the well is serviced.

Rodger

 

[RCW]

Besides the occasional air sputter in the shower, do you notice any other changes?

Color, odor, muddy, or turbidity changes? (some indications of low water elevation in well)

Does a clear glass of water look milky, and then clear from the bottom up if let sit on the counter? (evidence of air entrainment, causes vary, but can be pump cavitation from low water, and other causes)

Is the pressure switch located on a T-type fitting at the bottom of the pressure tank? Is the switch somewhere where you can hear it clicking on/off? Are the pump cycles long, as in 30-60+ seconds, or does it short-cycle as soon as a faucet is opened, and almost immediately stop? (Indication pressure tank is shot or flooded...can cause variety of problems).

Can you take off the well cap? Many are just set screws holding them on. If so, can you hear any noises in the casing with the pump running, especially the sound of water spray? (crack in pipe to well pump, can allow air)

Can you see water down the casing? Sometimes artesian pressure will push the static level way up. Some will flow. Depends on geology.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

while you're 'playing plumber'..... add a shutoff valve under the pressure gauge ! So you can easily replace the gauge. After a few years they tend to read 50PSI all the time,even when NO water in the tank........ For some 'silly' reason they fail...... well, all mine have...

 

[Fladogman]

Check your air valve, sounds like you're water level in the tank is too low. Water should level should be between 2/3 and 3/4 high with a small pocket of air at the top. If you have too much air, the water line will drop below the outlet pipe causing air to get in the system. Also because air compresses the pump will be delayed in filling the tank. Feel the side of the tank for the water level, water will feel cooler than air.
A foot valve keeps the water from the tank from going back down the pipe thus losing pressure in the tank and on surface pumps from losing prime.

 

[lynnmor]

For air to get into the system there has to be a leak somewhere between the check valve at the tank and the water level in the well.

 

[Fladogman]

For air to get into the system there has to be a leak somewhere between the check valve at the tank and the water level in the well.

One way to tell if there's a leak is to find out if the pump is cycling often when the water is not running, a leak will lose pressure causing the pump to cycle. If it's not cycling then we can probably rule out a leak? I had problems with my air volume control valve before, it caused air to get in the system like he described. It's an easy check and cheap fix if it's the problem.

 

[lynnmor]

One way to tell if there's a leak is to find out if the pump is cycling often when the water is not running, a leak will lose pressure causing the pump to cycle. If it's not cycling then we can probably rule out a leak? I had problems with my air volume control valve before, it caused air to get in the system like he described. It's an easy check and cheap fix if it's the problem.

Just a pin hole can let in a fair amount of air over time. The pump can cycle because of defective check valves, it takes an entry point to allow air in. The pump is only switched on by a pressure drop and a leak before the last working check valve will not be detected by the pump switch. Some systems, depending on depth, have a check valve near the tank and one or more back to the pump.

 

[dirtydeed]

OP,

It looks like many have provided you with information on how to check the pressure tank. That's a good place to start.

However, your description of the problem tells me that you have a hot water heater that is in its way out. How do I know this? Because I had the same thing happen to me 2 months ago. I'd get occasional pockets of air especially when running a shower (ie. hot water).

Wife is the GM of plumbing company. They came out and swapped the electric water heater. No issue since then. If your (electric) water heater is really 30 years old, it's a ticking time bomb.

have you purged the air from the water heater recently? see here for possible causes...

edit: just re-read your description and saw that you have a propane heated system. I thought that you had an existing electric water heater. I don't really know much about propane water heater systems. My suggestion was for electric water heaters creating hydrogen when they are on their way out.

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[D2Cat]

I just replaced a 20 year old water heater in a rental and though that was a long time, but 30 years? Splurge and buy/replace before hiring an inspection of your water system.

 

[Tughill Tom]

This past winter I blew out the lines after draining the water lines, water heater, pressure tank. After shutting the well pump off thru the circuit breaker. Guage on pressure tank still read 40 PSI. A neighbor said that's normal because it's a bladder system. I thought that he might be wrong at the time...

Not really, the bladder is pre-charged to typical 15 P.S.I.

 

[lynnmor]

edit: just re-read your description and saw that you have a propane heated system. I thought that you had an existing electric water heater. I don't really know much about propane water heater systems. My suggestion was for electric water heaters creating hydrogen when they are on their way out.

An electric heating element that is cracked and allows water to reach inside will cause the electrolysis, the gas that some think is air, the repair is to simply to replace the element available at any hardware store.

A water heater that is on the way out is leaking water.

I wonder how many on here replace the anode rod as needed.