Trespass

[GeoHorn]

About 3 years ago some long-haired young man about 30 pulled up outside our security gate as we were heading to town…he was driving a little Ford Ranger PU with Arkansas plates and a kayak on top….(we have about 1500 acres on the river) and asked how to get to the river. He was told “this is private land and you cannot use it to get to the river” He said that in AR the river is public. I pointed out the river is public but this is NOT Arkansas and my property is not for public travel..…and we went on to town. The security gate closed behind us.
A couple hrs later we returned and put the groceries away. UPS had delivered a pkg and left it on our doorstep.

Late at night the dog was barking and we found a storage-shed broken into and about 75-feet of 4-ga. electrical cable pulled-out and strung across the grass.
Next day the long-hair shows up at our door and wants to know if I have a tractor to pull him out of the river. He’d gotten his pickup stuck in the sandy shoreline. He was on our property (we’re deeded out to the channel of the river.)
How did he get there? When UPS used the delivery instructions to drop off the pkg…he simply followed them thur our security-gate, drove across our property to the river and got stuck.
It was HE who broke into our shed looking for a rope/cable/or chain to try to extricate his truck!! (What an idiot! thinking he might use electrical cable to pull a truck out of deep sand…. AND breaking into my shed. The dog had scared him off and he’d spent the nite in his truck.)

I called the sherriff …. who informed me that since UPS had opened the gate to allow him into our property he could not be charged with trespass….Yet…. but that after I had warned him to “get off” the property he has 24 hrs to get his stuck-truck off the property or I could place a claim upon it and charge him with trespass if he’s still standing on the property.
Idiot wants to know if it’s “OK” with me if he calls a buddy who has a wrecker to come out of town and pull him out. (Sherriff points out privately to me that if I give permission for him to bring a friend onto the property that would provide him a defense to trespassing and that any damage to the property by the wrecker and truck would have been by my permission.)

I told the idiot that he could either call a commercial wrecker service….not a friend… or I’d make charges against him tomorrow. Meanwhile, the river-authority now gets involved (they share radios with the sherriff) and they say that any damage to the water quality when that truck leaks or is submerged will be the fault of the owner…..or…the possessor if I put a lien on the truck…. and they plan to open floodgates on the upstream dam in 3 days.

I take my tractor down to the river and pull Idiot out of the sand and tell him to follow me to the gate. (I wanted to open the gate for his exit instead of him seeing the code…AND I wanted to take him to the gate via a particular route to prevent him seeing certain assets I have on the property.)

We got to the gate, I opened it, and he stuck his hand out the window in an attempt to shake-hands with me. I pulled my pistol out of my pocket, keeping it pointed at the ground but providing a good reason my hand was not empty to be giving a hand-shake…. and said, “Look Bud! We’re not friends. We’re not going to BE friends. And if you are ever on my side of this gate again I will not be bothering the sherriff. You’ve got about 30 more seconds before this gate automatically closes. Capiche?”

He has not been back.

 

[D2Cat]

Geo, what made you think of this today?

 

[Flintknapper]

Disagree with the first assessment the Sheriff made. You had already spoken with the young man and told him he could NOT use your property to access the river. Gate closed or open, he had 'notice' that he was not to enter your property (for the purpose cited). UPS driver is not your 'agent' and could not give consent real or implied. So that dog won't hunt.

Trespass occurred just as soon as the guy entered your property (to access the river) despite your warning not to. That is 'criminal trespass' in Texas.

 

[hagrid]

I agree.

 

[Bmyers]

I wonder why the guy wasn't charged with breaking and entering/damage to property?

 

[mcmxi]

The only comment I have is the "brandishing" of a weapon for the purpose of intimidation. Montana is a very gun friendly state, but showing a firearm with the intent to intimidate or threaten is a felony up here, but perhaps not in Texas.

We have millions of acres of public land in Montana with plenty of access to rivers and lakes but there is an ongoing problem with poaching and particularly trespassing during hunting season. I had a guy on a 4-wheeler driving around my property and my neighbor's a few years ago. When I approached him and asked him what he was doing the situation rapidly deteriorated. I was armed with a revolver in a holster that he couldn't see, but ultimately he came at me with the 4-wheeler so I knocked him off it and he ended up face planting in a ditch by the driveway. He lay there for a minute groaning as I was calling 911 to report his attempted assault and my necessary defense.

I told him to leave my property and headed back to the house still on the phone with dispatch. It took him 10 minutes or more before he got back on the 4-wheeler and headed down the driveway. 20 minutes later he was back in a purple PT Cruiser with a woman driving. They stopped at the turn which is 175 yards from my kitchen window. They both got out and opened the rear hatch. At this point I opened one of the kitchen windows, got a rifle set up and dialed 911 again. I told dispatch that if either of them presented a weapon that I would do whatever was necessary to defend myself. A sheriff was supposedly on the way.

The couple might have seen me or not, but they got back in the car, turned around and left. I received a call from a Sheriff about an hour later asking me if I needed help and if I had No Trespassing signs posted. I never did see a Sheriff.

A few months later I was going door to door in the area trying to organize a dust control program since the county pays 50% of dust control for sections of road longer than 1/2 mile. I knocked on the door of a trailer and a rough woman answered. At first she was interested in the program but asked me where I lived. I pointed to my place and then she went ballistic. She told me that I'd killed her husband since he passed away a little over a month after our altercation. I told her that he was trespassing and that he'd attacked me and I defended myself. She told me to get the #@$% off her property so I backed away keeping my eyes on her and my hand behind me and close to the revolver I always carry.

 

[007kubotaguy]

This is what backhoes are made for.

 

[mcmxi]

This is what backhoes are made for.

There was a story of a farmer in England who used a telehandler to remove a vehicle that was illegally parked on his property. He was attacked by the vehicle's owner and eventually ended up in court. He was found not guilty of all charges though, and rightfully so!

 

[GeoHorn]

I thought of this today …because ..Today… I am using that electrical cable and pizzed-off again about it.

As for the sherriffs’ actions and opinion: It is not uncommon for law enforcement officers to not know the details of law. If it’s not a violent action which needs immediate suppression… a LEO may prefer to “tamp down” the emotions and seek amicable solutions than to make arrests amid questionable prosecution issues.

The UPS driver did not authorize entry and was not my ”agent” for the trespasser. The trespasser took advantage of a gate which automatically remains open 60 seconds before closing on his own decision. UPS had no liability or responsibility in this matter.

Trespasser cannot be charged with “breaking and entering”…because he didn’t “break” into the property…. and no one observed him “break” into the shed.…(in fact, it was only a closed door…not actually locked)…..and the sherriff did not Observe any offense. The sherriff responded to my complaint relying upon my statements….not his own observation. (hypotheticals: You can tell the cop that you saw me speeding but he cannot cite me for what you claim. The police can arrive at the scene where my car is smashed-into your parked vehicle… and I can be over the .08 limit… but no one observed me to actually drive my car… the police and the owner of the crunched car arrived after I’d exited my car. They only saw me standing on the street.
(Unless I was sufficiently plastered to be foolish to actually ANSWER the police when he asked “What happened here?” …and if I answered “Well, I was driving and fell asleep.” But if I remain silent.. it might be difficult to prove I was the actual operator of the vehicle.

There’s more to such stories than might appear to the ordinary citizen.

 

[Biker1mike]

My 2 cents. I agree with you ! BUT, what does his hair length have to do with it ? If he kept his hair high and tight would if have mattered ?

 

[GeoHorn]

His hair had nothing to do with it other than to give a description of the guy. I could have written “white guy” …but one might question that as well. Should I have said “hare-brained” instead? …because at that early in the relationship I didn’t know that about him…I only noticed his hair length and his AR plates…

 

[Fordtech86]

BUT, what does his hair length have to do with it ?

You know long haired freaky people can’t obey the signs

 

[D2Cat]

Hair length, color, etc. can be important in describing someone. Don't take offense if you sport long hair!!

I recently had a package delivered by Fed Ex. Driver came up my driveway and required about an 8 point maneuver to get turned around to get out. He actually scraped the front bumper of my truck. I had been under the truck only a few minuted earlier to install a fog light bulb and still have a piece of cardboard laying there that I had been laying on.

The driver left the package, didn't take a picture to confirm delivery and sent to messages.....just left in a hurry. I watched the entire episode from a second story window.

It was real easy to describe the driver because he had shoulder length hair with bright green full length globs intermingled with his black hair. ( My guess he's a new hire who doesn't know how to back a truck!)

When I contacted Fed Ex about the incident they wanted a description. That's what I told them. They asked for camera evidence. I didn't have any. I took picture showing the parking area, turn around area, location of truck and damage to front passenger side bumper.

After bit of going back and forth with Fed Ex insurance carrier they got camera form the truck and confirmed what I reported was what happened and was paid for damages.

That fellow's hair made it easy to confirm who the driver was!

 

[Daren Todd]

About 3 years ago some long-haired young man about 30 pulled up outside our security gate as we were heading to town…he was driving a little Ford Ranger PU with Arkansas plates and a kayak on top….(we have about 1500 acres on the river) and asked how to get to the river. He was told “this is private land and you cannot use it to get to the river” He said that in AR the river is public. I pointed out the river is public but this is NOT Arkansas and my property is not for public travel..…and we went on to town. The security gate closed behind us.
A couple hrs later we returned and put the groceries away. UPS had delivered a pkg and left it on our doorstep.

Late at night the dog was barking and we found a storage-shed broken into and about 75-feet of 4-ga. electrical cable pulled-out and strung across the grass.
Next day the long-hair shows up at our door and wants to know if I have a tractor to pull him out of the river. He’d gotten his pickup stuck in the sandy shoreline. He was on our property (we’re deeded out to the channel of the river.)
How did he get there? When UPS used the delivery instructions to drop off the pkg…he simply followed them thur our security-gate, drove across our property to the river and got stuck.
It was HE who broke into our shed looking for a rope/cable/or chain to try to extricate his truck!! (What an idiot! thinking he might use electrical cable to pull a truck out of deep sand…. AND breaking into my shed. The dog had scared him off and he’d spent the nite in his truck.)

I called the sherriff …. who informed me that since UPS had opened the gate to allow him into our property he could not be charged with trespass….Yet…. but that after I had warned him to “get off” the property he has 24 hrs to get his stuck-truck off the property or I could place a claim upon it and charge him with trespass if he’s still standing on the property.
Idiot wants to know if it’s “OK” with me if he calls a buddy who has a wrecker to come out of town and pull him out. (Sherriff points out privately to me that if I give permission for him to bring a friend onto the property that would provide him a defense to trespassing and that any damage to the property by the wrecker and truck would have been by my permission.)

I told the idiot that he could either call a commercial wrecker service….not a friend… or I’d make charges against him tomorrow. Meanwhile, the river-authority now gets involved (they share radios with the sherriff) and they say that any damage to the water quality when that truck leaks or is submerged will be the fault of the owner…..or…the possessor if I put a lien on the truck…. and they plan to open floodgates on the upstream dam in 3 days.

I take my tractor down to the river and pull Idiot out of the sand and tell him to follow me to the gate. (I wanted to open the gate for his exit instead of him seeing the code…AND I wanted to take him to the gate via a particular route to prevent him seeing certain assets I have on the property.)

We got to the gate, I opened it, and he stuck his hand out the window in an attempt to shake-hands with me. I pulled my pistol out of my pocket, keeping it pointed at the ground but providing a good reason my hand was not empty to be giving a hand-shake…. and said, “Look Bud! We’re not friends. We’re not going to BE friends. And if you are ever on my side of this gate again I will not be bothering the sherriff. You’ve got about 30 more seconds before this gate automatically closes. Capiche?”

He has not been back.

Even in Arkansas, accessing the river through private property is still considered trespassing unless you have written permission from the land owner.

There are only a few states that I know of that have extremely liberal laws that allow public access to anyone's property unless the land is explicitly posted with signs every so many feet apart.

 

[NCL4701]

Unfortunately I have more stories about trespassers than I would prefer. Only one I think advisable to post on a public forum other than a few where we just advised the folks to leave and they politely obliged, which isn’t very interesting.

Had a gentleman who was hunting from a deer stand in the back side of our place. Told him to leave. He said he wasn’t leaving. Called sheriff. An amicable older deputy showed up who was quite obese. Drove him as far as we could but it was still a good hike through brush and briars to get to the hunter. Deputy was sweating, worn out, and generally hurting by the time we got to the hunter. He told the guy to get his stand and clear out. Guy told him it was public land (it isn’t and there’s no public land nearby) and he wasn’t leaving. Deputy told him he was going to sit down and recover while he watched him leave and if he ever had to make that hike again to get him out of a deer stand he was going to bring his rifle, cut the last 100 yards off the hike, and blow him out of the stand. Guy left and hasn’t been back.

 

[Biker1mike]

You know long haired freaky people can’t obey the signs

Yup. If I started a post by saying, " This guy with a MAGA hat walked from my back property....". I would be accused, and rightly so, of starting with a bias.
Defining the person for the start of a story is not the same as giving a description to the police.

I really hate when down state hunters walk past the posted signs to ask if they can hunt my property. If you do not come up the driveway and show some respect you will be told to leave. Actually the answer is always no. All my neighbors are posted and there are are plenty of better places to hunt. You just gotta walk way far from houses and the neighbors livestock.

 

[85Hokie]

So to add another story to these great stories.

I was vice president of a local "club" - large swimming pool and tennis courts.

It seemed that we had some yungin' s who wanted to take late night early morning (2 am) swim - long before cameras and all that great stuff.

Somehow we got a couple of names from the locals - called the town police and they said .......

"you have no trespassing signs posted?" - we said no, he said, aint nothing we can do about it then!

BUT if you DO have those signs posted and have the proof we can then do something!

I wanted to be a smartass and say - we dont have signs up that says - "come in anytime, over the 8' chain-link fence either.

In this part of the woods - if a gun is pointed to, as in on the hip or otherwise - one can be charged with the ol "brandishing a firearm" HERE is the VA law - " criminal offense to point, hold or brandish a firearm in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another "

so ifn you point to it - use it and THEN get the backhoe ready!!!!

 

[Bmyers]

Late at night the dog was barking and we found a storage-shed broken into and about 75-feet of 4-ga. electrical cable pulled-out and strung across the grass.

I guess I misunderstood this line from the post, sorry.

 

[chim]

My 2 cents. I agree with you ! BUT, what does his hair length have to do with it ? If he kept his hair high and tight would if have mattered ?

Reminds me of a phrase one of my late co-workers used - "Sassy longhair blabbermouth Yankee hippie"

Never did find out if it was a line from a movie or he originated it.

 

[PaulR]

1) I'm surprised the Sheriff said you could not press charges for trespass. I thought if it was your property, you can trespass anyone you want.
2) I live Massachusetts (aka Liberal sh!thole). Sadly, I can count a few different instances there in your story where the trespasser would be pressing charges on you and the Sheriff would have you in cuffs.