Trailering a L47 TLB

[chrisvconley]

That must have been a very tight fit on an 18' trailer.

My L48 TLB is 11' dig v/s the L47 10' dig, thus my BH is a slight bit longer.
Mine fits on my 14K, 20' construction trailer, but with the loader bucket not flat on deck, and the BH bucket over the stern by a few inches.

Interesting - it fit fine! Here's a little picture of "Jack-Jack".

 

[fried1765]

Interesting - it fit fine! Here's a little picture of "Jack-Jack".

"fit fine" seems kinda subjective.
I always trailer my L48 with the hoe down, and chained/strapped to the deck.
The use of the boom pin may be Ok, but with the hoe on deck, the overall center of gravity is lower, and IMHO it is a much better/safer tie down configuration.

Congratulations on your L47 TLB.
They are such magnificent machines!

 

[notforhire]

"fit fine" seems kinda subjective.
I always trailer my L48 with the hoe down, and chained to the deck.
The use of the boom pin may be Ok, but with the hoe on deck, the overall center of gravity is lower, and IMHO it is a much better/safer tie down configuration.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the law require that in addition to the tractor tie downs, the loader bucket and the backhoe be tied down too?

 

[fried1765]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the law require that in addition to the tractor tie downs, the loader bucket and the backhoe be tied down too?

I do not know if the "law" is the same on this in all states.... or not.
But for me: It is a no brainer!
BOTH loader bucket...and hoe bucket ...ARE chained/strapped down!

 

[dirtydeed]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the law require that in addition to the tractor tie downs, the loader bucket and the backhoe be tied down too?

No. It does not if the boom lock (aka Transport Lock) is in place.

 

[fried1765]

No. It does not if the boom lock (aka Transport Lock) is in place.

Maybe so.... in some states?....but still not a good idea!
I very seriously doubt that method would pass muster in Canada!

 

[dirtydeed]

Maybe so.... in some states?....but still not a good idea!
I very seriously doubt that method would pass muster in Canada!

Look Fried. I answered notforhired's question. He didn't ask for an opinion nor is he in Canada.

 

[fried1765]

Look Fried. I answered notforhired's question. He didn't ask for an opinion nor is he in Canada.

I have always believed that OTT is about gathering opinions, and offering to assist each other in making informed decisions!
It was/is not my intention to offend or upset you, or anyone else.
I am very sorry.

 

[dirtydeed]

Yes, OTT is generally about opinions. Read his question again. He was asking about the law, not opinions.

If you still won't accept my answer, you can check it out here

(at approx the 7 min mark). This kind trooper is referring to the US Federal Regs

Oh, you're not hurting my feelings at all. You're free to strap yours down any way you wish.

edit: I suppose I should add an edit to the original question. Yes, the loader bucket needs to be strapped. However, I do believe that applies only to machines over 10,000 lbs. But that would be only an opinion.

 

[chrisvconley]

"fit fine" seems kinda subjective.
I always trailer my L48 with the hoe down, and chained/strapped to the deck.
The use of the boom pin may be Ok, but with the hoe on deck, the overall center of gravity is lower, and IMHO it is a much better/safer tie down configuration.

Congratulations on your L47 TLB.
They are such magnificent machines!

Yes, I should have put the boom down on the deck! The rental yard loaded it for me and I didn't yet know what I was doing. Just took it over to the dealer and had the boom down. Thanks for pointing that out!

 

[troverman]

...I would say a 1/2 ton truck is a bit undersized to haul the L47. My truck GCWR (truck + trailer) is 16000 and on a scale I'm at 16500. Even though I'm towing 10600 (200 over limit of truck or trailer), I'm still exceeding GCVR.It's kinda of a catch for fullsize trucks...they're rating to tow a lot more than their payload/ GCVR allows especially if they have 4 doors and stuff inside. I discovered that technically the tundra should only have 1000 in the bed despite the sticker saying 1800 because on the scale with just me in it, the truck weights 6k and the GVWR is 7k, though I've put 2500 LB in the bed plenty of times and it handled it fine. Towing 10k+ the truck drives fine though you can tell the truck is at it's limit, which isn't exactly being safe. It's no worse than putting 2500 in the bed and in both situations if some clueless car turns in front of my without look, I probably wont be able to stop in time.

Here is how I load my L47 on the trailer: I drive up on the ramps (not back up like you should a skidsteer), which are barely wide enough. The rears wheels are spaced wider than the fronts, where the rears will be partly off the ramps and the fronts are center though close to the other end. If I had weigh spacers, I just wouldn't work. As I climb the ramps, the backhoe is about 1 inch from scraping on a level surface. If the rear of the trailer has an uphill, it will probably scrap...likewise it wont if you have a downhill. All those other smaller kubota tractors with a backhoe would scrap for sure, requiring you to use wood blocks etc. I drive it forward till the rear wheels basically line up between the two axles. I've found that I actually need to drive up a little further to level the trailer better. Considering trying to drop the front ball a slot to fix that, though that is already kinda low and pulling up forward is no big deal.

Here is how I strap it down: I have a long 7k rated chain that I pass through the two rear tow hooks (chain goes along the trailer). Each end of the chain connects to the slots on the backhoe frame (I guess they are there specifically for towing). I have rachet chain binder that I can then use in the center, however I found that all I need to do is just drive forward to tension it (no racket required). Up front, I take a racket strap around each wheel and loop it to the lower tow hooks. There isn't a good spot up front to tie down to and I discovered that since the front pivots, if you don't attach to the wheels, once side can get loose as you drive around. IMO this a big miss... why can't kubota design these tractors with hauling loops to attach to??? The backhoe has it so don't doesn't the front? The front bucket as some nice hooks on them, but it clearly says that is the level gauge and not to use for hauling...they seem plenty strong for it though.

A TLB is flexible, but you quickly realize the (un)practically on a job. If you want to use a 3PT attachment, you must make multiple trips. This adds to your cost because so many jobs are less than 1 day. If I had a larger trailer and truck to bring everything with me to do a job in a single day, that would be a HUGE saver. Mainly for any kind of dirt or driveway work, you want/need a box blade. So many situations where you want to bring multiple attachments, including backhoe buckets etc. You could try to put something in the truck bed, but in my case, I my truck is maxed out.

Future plans:

- I need a heavy duty 3/4 ton truck with 16000 towing capacity. Ideally it should have 24000-26000 GCWR (the cut off needing a CDL) and about 3k payload. The truck itself will be 10k GVWR so wont be able to pull anything more than a 16k rated trailer otherwise you need CDL (even if it's empty and you're not using the capacity, DOT will just look a your truck door sticker, the trailer sticker, and then do the math). I wont be getting a diesel because the it takes away from payload capacity and the emissions crap they put on are nightmare. Don't need diesel to tow 14k...a gas engine could handle that...heck even F150 with a turbo V6 can do it easy. Don't need dually either...just adds weight, cost, and makes the truck ride worse. Used to be a 'regular cab, no options, and 8 foot bed' kinda guy, but with 3 kids, I kinda need the 4 doors (even though I got a family car, still end up using a truck to move kids around), and with a trailer, having an 8 foot bed becomes less of a requirement (though I'd still prefer 8 ft, 6.5 probably good enough).
- The trailer should be 16k rated. Ideally want a 24 foot gooseneck, which is heavier and would leave maybe 12k to haul. This gives a buffer and lets me potentially get equipment at 10-12k weight (M62 for example, though I'm happy with my L47 for now). An 8 foot trailer where the fenders are under would be nice. Going to give aluminum trailers more consideration...they save a significant amount weight at adds to you towing ability. The trailer should have wider longer ramps.

You are correct a 1/2 ton pickup is really too light duty to be pulling a 10,000lb trailer. It will do it, but if done repeatedly (commercially), you will likely see components fail, such as the wheel bearings, axles, differentials, driveshaft u-joints, transmissions, brakes, etc. Your comment on the EcoBoost "easily" towing 14k lbs is not accurate. No pickup truck tows 14,000lbs "easily" and that includes modern 1-ton dually diesels with 1,000lb-ft or torque. You will feel that load and the engine will work. The EcoBoost is an impressive engine for its size and output, but there is a reason it is not offered in Ford's heavy-duty lineup, because it won't hold up. If you compare a 1/2 ton truck's frame, axles, suspension, driveshafts, brakes, etc, etc...so a 3/4 ton or up...there is a world of difference in size.

You commented on towing 10k lbs behind your Tundra as not being "worse" than having 2500lbs in the bed of your truck. I would disagree, because 10,000lbs of inertia trying to control your truck is a lot worse than 2500lbs of inertia added to the bed of your truck. But frankly, 2500lbs is too much for a half ton truck, and doing that a few times will cause problems. The axle tubes themselves are stressed at this point.

Finally, your future plans are mostly on point. If you want a 3/4 ton, you are right that a gas engine gives you significantly better payload, although likely less max towing. Sometimes the diesel engine provides a heavier duty transmission and rear axle, things to consider. Diesel engines move very heavy loads with less RPM and effort, and use less fuel doing it, but right now the cost of diesel is much higher than gas, and the added cost of the diesel engine option (+$10k) is a lot. In my opinion, the best gas powertrain right now is the Ford 7.3L "Godzilla" engine with the 10-speed automatic transmission. Very understressed engine that is simple to work on and should last forever.

As a quick example, I have three trucks I tow with - a 2005 F-350 dually crew cab pickup with the 6.0L Powerstroke, a 2003 F-550 dump truck with the 6.0L Powerstroke, and a 2022 RAM 2500 crew cab with the 6.4L Hemi / 8-speed combination. Both the pickups have gooseneck hitches in the bed and both have factory trailer brake controllers. The 550 is a dump truck with a pintle hitch. I have a 30' gooseneck (16k) and an 18' deckover (16.5k) for moving my equipment. The normal load is a Kubota MX6000 cab tractor, loader, and 7-foot flail mower, loaded rear tires, spacers, etc. The tractor weighs in at 7,244lbs and the flail mower is another 1300lbs or so. The gooseneck trailer weighs in at 5,700lbs approximately, leaving 10,300lbs capacity. My tractor and mower together end up being roughly 8500lbs, so I have a little room left on the trailer. Sometimes I bring my Wright zero turn mower (1300lbs) along and basically max out the trailer. I have pulled this load with my RAM 2500 gas truck, and my conclusion is its too much for a 2500. The load needs to be carefully balanced or the back end of the truck sags. Goosenecks put 15-20% of the weight into the bed, more than the 10-15% on the bumper pull trailer. My RAM has a factory rating of 3100lbs of payload and 14,700lbs of towing (3.73 axle ratio). The gas engine has enough power to move the load, but it works very hard on hills and grades. I really like the 8-speed transmission, but I suspect if I towed this load repeatedly, the transmission would not have a long life. Also, with the 2500's lighter suspension, you get pushed around by the gooseneck especially with a tall tractor on it. However, this truck tows my 8,000lb 20' enclosed box trailer very well. Towing this same gooseneck fully loaded with the dually pickup is a much better experience. The dually offers so much better stability and the trailer cannot bully the truck nearly as much. There is less squat. I'm not going to say the diesel engine is effortless with this load, because its not, but it works less hard than the gas V8, despite only a 5-speed automatic transmission. The 550 dump truck is a similar experience except it has a massive rear axle, suspension, and brakes that dwarf what the 350 dually has. Squat and control are not an issue. The 4.88 axle ratio helps move things along. But that truck works as well.

I had a 2019 RAM 3500 (single rear wheel) with the High Output Cummins and towed this load as well. The added power makes life even easier, but it is still not effortless, and the dually still is far more stable.

I think it depends upon what you want. A half ton pickup can do a lot of work but still drives great around town and can do pretty well on fuel. They ride and steer nicely. A 3/4 ton rides quite a bit worse and the steering isn't as precise or quick. They don't accelerate or stop as fast as a half-ton, and they use quite a bit more fuel. However, they can be loaded down with payload or trailer far more than a half ton can be.

 

[jyoutz]

You are correct a 1/2 ton pickup is really too light duty to be pulling a 10,000lb trailer. It will do it, but if done repeatedly (commercially), you will likely see components fail, such as the wheel bearings, axles, differentials, driveshaft u-joints, transmissions, brakes, etc. Your comment on the EcoBoost "easily" towing 14k lbs is not accurate. No pickup truck tows 14,000lbs "easily" and that includes modern 1-ton dually diesels with 1,000lb-ft or torque. You will feel that load and the engine will work. The EcoBoost is an impressive engine for its size and output, but there is a reason it is not offered in Ford's heavy-duty lineup, because it won't hold up. If you compare a 1/2 ton truck's frame, axles, suspension, driveshafts, brakes, etc, etc...so a 3/4 ton or up...there is a world of difference in size.

You commented on towing 10k lbs behind your Tundra as not being "worse" than having 2500lbs in the bed of your truck. I would disagree, because 10,000lbs of inertia trying to control your truck is a lot worse than 2500lbs of inertia added to the bed of your truck. But frankly, 2500lbs is too much for a half ton truck, and doing that a few times will cause problems. The axle tubes themselves are stressed at this point.

Finally, your future plans are mostly on point. If you want a 3/4 ton, you are right that a gas engine gives you significantly better payload, although likely less max towing. Sometimes the diesel engine provides a heavier duty transmission and rear axle, things to consider. Diesel engines move very heavy loads with less RPM and effort, and use less fuel doing it, but right now the cost of diesel is much higher than gas, and the added cost of the diesel engine option (+$10k) is a lot. In my opinion, the best gas powertrain right now is the Ford 7.3L "Godzilla" engine with the 10-speed automatic transmission. Very understressed engine that is simple to work on and should last forever.

As a quick example, I have three trucks I tow with - a 2005 F-350 dually crew cab pickup with the 6.0L Powerstroke, a 2003 F-550 dump truck with the 6.0L Powerstroke, and a 2022 RAM 2500 crew cab with the 6.4L Hemi / 8-speed combination. Both the pickups have gooseneck hitches in the bed and both have factory trailer brake controllers. The 550 is a dump truck with a pintle hitch. I have a 30' gooseneck (16k) and an 18' deckover (16.5k) for moving my equipment. The normal load is a Kubota MX6000 cab tractor, loader, and 7-foot flail mower, loaded rear tires, spacers, etc. The tractor weighs in at 7,244lbs and the flail mower is another 1300lbs or so. The gooseneck trailer weighs in at 5,700lbs approximately, leaving 10,300lbs capacity. My tractor and mower together end up being roughly 8500lbs, so I have a little room left on the trailer. Sometimes I bring my Wright zero turn mower (1300lbs) along and basically max out the trailer. I have pulled this load with my RAM 2500 gas truck, and my conclusion is its too much for a 2500. The load needs to be carefully balanced or the back end of the truck sags. Goosenecks put 15-20% of the weight into the bed, more than the 10-15% on the bumper pull trailer. My RAM has a factory rating of 3100lbs of payload and 14,700lbs of towing (3.73 axle ratio). The gas engine has enough power to move the load, but it works very hard on hills and grades. I really like the 8-speed transmission, but I suspect if I towed this load repeatedly, the transmission would not have a long life. Also, with the 2500's lighter suspension, you get pushed around by the gooseneck especially with a tall tractor on it. However, this truck tows my 8,000lb 20' enclosed box trailer very well. Towing this same gooseneck fully loaded with the dually pickup is a much better experience. The dually offers so much better stability and the trailer cannot bully the truck nearly as much. There is less squat. I'm not going to say the diesel engine is effortless with this load, because its not, but it works less hard than the gas V8, despite only a 5-speed automatic transmission. The 550 dump truck is a similar experience except it has a massive rear axle, suspension, and brakes that dwarf what the 350 dually has. Squat and control are not an issue. The 4.88 axle ratio helps move things along. But that truck works as well.

I had a 2019 RAM 3500 (single rear wheel) with the High Output Cummins and towed this load as well. The added power makes life even easier, but it is still not effortless, and the dually still is far more stable.

I think it depends upon what you want. A half ton pickup can do a lot of work but still drives great around town and can do pretty well on fuel. They ride and steer nicely. A 3/4 ton rides quite a bit worse and the steering isn't as precise or quick. They don't accelerate or stop as fast as a half-ton, and they use quite a bit more fuel. However, they can be loaded down with payload or trailer far more than a half ton can be.

The economics of a diesel vs gasser truck is situational. I tend to buy new or near new and keep a vehicle for 250k miles. At that mileage, a gasser truck has very little resale value, but a diesel still will sell for a decent price. And a diesel gets 30% better mpg than a comparable gas vehicle. However if someone trades their vehicle at 100k miles, then the gasser will pencil out better financially.

 

[troverman]

The economics of a diesel vs gasser truck is situational. I tend to buy new or near new and keep a vehicle for 250k miles. At that mileage, a gasser truck has very little resale value, but a diesel still will sell for a decent price. And a diesel gets 30% better mpg than a comparable gas vehicle. However if someone trades their vehicle at 100k miles, then the gasser will pencil out better financially.

Here in the saltbelt (NH), a rig with 250k on it is 99% likely to be rusted to death and has no value regardless of what engine is in it, unfortunately.

 

[dirtydeed]

Troverman, regarding your comment about sag when loaded. I recently installed a set of Timbren SES on my Ram 3500 chassis/cab dump truck. These are essentially taller rubber "bump stops" that serve as a spring when the vehicle is loaded. They not only significantly reduce rear end sag, but they really help with preventing body roll as well.

On most pickup trucks, there is still a gap between the axle housing and Timbren SES so your "unloaded" ride remains unchanged. They work as advertised.

Here is a link to their site. https://timbren.com/p-35851-timbren-ses.html

They can be purchased from many other retailers including amazon for significantly less than the advertised price on the website.

Hope that I didn't derail this thread. Carry on.

 

[troverman]

Troverman, regarding your comment about sag when loaded. I recently installed a set of Timbren SES on my Ram 3500 chassis/cab dump truck. These are essentially taller rubber "bump stops" that serve as a spring when the vehicle is loaded. They not only significantly reduce rear end sag, but they really help with preventing body roll as well.

On most pickup trucks, there is still a gap between the axle housing and Timbren SES so your "unloaded" ride remains unchanged. They work as advertised.

Here is a link to their site. https://timbren.com/p-35851-timbren-ses.html

They can be purchased from many other retailers including amazon for significantly less than the advertised price on the website.

Hope that I didn't derail this thread. Carry on.

Thanks, I am aware of Timbrens. On my 350 dually, I actually installed the Firestone Ride-Rite air springs on the rear axle, with an on-board compressor, in-cab suspension pressure gauge and +/- air pressure control. I can make the truck level now with any load, but its important to still not overload the rear axle. Half ton rear GAWR is going to be around 4,000lbs; you can exceed that fairly easily. 3/4 and 1-ton SRW is going to jump to 7000+ lbs and dually will be around 9k.

 

[jyoutz]

Here in the saltbelt (NH), a rig with 250k on it is 99% likely to be rusted to death and has no value regardless of what engine is in it, unfortunately.

The financial aspects of the decision isn’t one size fits all. In my area, we use other road de-icing chemicals and materials, not salt. Also we drive far more miles on average in the west than in other regions, so we have a lot of newer vehicles with 200-300k miles.

 

[notaz3]

Some states interpret the 49 C.F.R. § 383.5 to read that any trailer RATED over 10,000 pounds requires a CDL even if it is empty.
Even if you have a HD dully rated with a Class 5 hitch, you still are not able to tow 10,001 pounds without CDL.

 

[6869704x4]

Yes, I should have put the boom down on the deck! The rental yard loaded it for me and I didn't yet know what I was doing. Just took it over to the dealer and had the boom down. Thanks for pointing that out!

Don't sweat it. Your'e fine either way.

 

[6869704x4]

Some states interpret the 49 C.F.R. § 383.5 to read that any trailer RATED over 10,000 pounds requires a CDL even if it is empty.
Even if you have a HD dully rated with a Class 5 hitch, you still are not able to tow 10,001 pounds without CDL.

Can you tell us what states those are?

 

[fried1765]

Some states interpret the 49 C.F.R. § 383.5 to read that any trailer RATED over 10,000 pounds requires a CDL even if it is empty.
Even if you have a HD dully rated with a Class 5 hitch, you still are not able to tow 10,001 pounds without CDL.

Does that over 10,000 lb. CDL "requirement" apply if towing a trailer only for private use?
Why do motorhome owners not need a CDL?
Most/many motorhomes are well in excess of the 26,001 CDL required weight, and many tow a car behind as well.