Tractor Warm Up Question

Henro

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Letting it warm up without using it is better.
I have read that warming the engine up does little to warm the hydraulic oil. I guess this is reasonable. IF a HST anyway.

What I do after warming up the engine a bit, is I move the tractor in low range to warm up the hydraulic oil somewhat, before working the tractor. Just makes me feel good I guess.

Both my tractors are HSTs. Might be different for a gear tractor.

Edit: This is in winter. In summer I just warm the engine and feel that is good enough.
 
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RalphVa

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I've driven diesel cars from 1978 through to 2016 and tractors since 2004 and now near 10 years on a diesel generator. NONE of these have ever sat and idled to warm up. Start and go. Two cars went to 200k, one for 25 years. No problems.

The Isuzu generator driver, in particular, is started automatically and has to immediately spring into service at its approximately 1600 or so rpm it runs at.

Diesels take forever to warm up just sitting idling.
 
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rc51stierhoff

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I've driven diesel cars from 1978 through to 2016 and tractors since 2004 and now near 10 years on a diesel generator. NONE of these have ever sat and idled to warm up. Start and go. Two cars went to 200k, one for 25 years. No problems.

The Isuzu generator driver, in particular, is started automatically and has to immediately spring into service at its approximately 1600 or so rpm it runs at.

Diesels take forever to warm up just sitting idling.
In general if cold, especially for fuel, I would think that letting run for a few minutes is not a bad thing. Good thing would be to warm the fuel up in the engine as well as slowly radiating into the tank. If it can gel I suspect circulation would not be a bad thing. As far as starting I can’t image anything worse for the piston rings under all that compression and a cold engine and cold fuel. I am not sure why a block heater is a bad idea. If you have a block heater try this…in warmer season plug it in…let it do it’s thing then start. It’s like restarting a warm engine. It will absolutely start easier even in summer with a block heater(I know it is not necessary) than a cold start in summer. Don’t believe me, then try it and prove me wrong. So if a warm engine starts easier, how is that not better for the engine? If that is true why is a block heater or letting an engine warm up not helpful?
 
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ruger1980

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I have read that warming the engine up does little to warm the hydraulic oil. I guess this is reasonable. IF a HST anyway.

What I do after warming up the engine a bit, is I move the tractor in low range to warm up the hydraulic oil somewhat, before working the tractor. Just makes me feel good I guess.

Both my tractors are HSTs. Might be different for a gear tractor.

Edit: This is in winter. In summer I just warm the engine and feel that is good enough.
Actually the HST charge circuit runs over relief most of the time so a HST machine may warm up faster than a gear or GST machine may.
 

GreensvilleJay

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Winter, Spring, Summer and Fall.. I turn the key, 3 seconds of glowplug power, then start the BX23S up. Anytime I haven't done that , I CAN see/feel a difference in how it starts.
Truck has a remote start, it runs for 10 minutes, shuts off. In that time, engine heats up, tranny warms a bit, windshield gets defrosted.
When it gets really cold ,-20*C, let is run for 20 minutes
 
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bbxlr8

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Follow-up question to those making & using covers - Does the tractor come up higher in the "range" on the temp gauge?
  • I am sure the answer is yes, but how much in a relative way? Of course, it makes sense that it is based on usage and ambient conditions etc. Also, Can you get it too hot using it hard?

The broader question - Is the bottom of the range OK for these engines in the winter?

My frame of reference is older HP gas engines where there is such a thing as too cool from an engine wear standpoint... Ex) I am talking 160' thermostat vs 180' etc (not using it "cold") Doesn't really boil off moisture and more acids form faster.
 
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bird dogger

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Follow-up question to those making & using covers - Does the tractor come up higher in the "range" on the temp gauge?
  • I am sure the answer is yes, but how much in a relative way? Of course, it makes sense that it is based on usage and ambient conditions etc. Also, Can you get it too hot using it hard?

The broader question - Is the bottom of the range OK for these engines in the winter?

My frame of reference is older HP gas engines where there is such a thing as too cool from an engine wear standpoint... Ex) I am talking 160' thermostat vs 180' etc (not using it "cold") Doesn't really boil off moisture and more acids form faster.
Here's my take on your questions:

Follow-up question to those making & using covers - Does the tractor come up higher in the "range" on the temp gauge?

This was my experience with the B2650 during the first winter and covers: Winter Front Covers

Growing up on a farm, we always fabbed up winter front covers for our tractors doing their winter chores. Both for the gas and diesel tractors. For the benefit of both the tractor and operator. We had no cabs on them and relied on engine heat blown back towards the operator.

I am sure the answer is yes, but how much in a relative way? Of course, it makes sense that it is based on usage and ambient conditions etc. Also, Can you get it too hot using it hard?

Yes, you can get it too hot if you don’t use common sense. Most likely each person’s conditions, tractor, equipment, engine loading, outside temps, etc. are different. You do have to pay attention to your heat gauge until you get familiar with your tractor and operation in those varying conditions. If you get it too hot by using it too hard, you’re not paying attention to your tractor’s temperature gauge. You simply adjust/remove covers if your temperature rises above your comfort level.

On my B2650, I’ve found that once the tractor temp gauge is in the midrange (3 to 4 bars) it takes quite a bit more of a sustained loading to reach each successively higher segment on the temperature display. It doesn’t all of a sudden jump to the over temp range. If you glance at your gauge often you should have plenty of time to react. Again, that’s my tractor in cold winter temps here in northern ND. If you forget to take the covers off in the middle of April or in much warmer temps wherever you are……those results may be different. Common sense rules the day. All it takes is to watch your temperature gauge and adjust/remove whatever means of covers you are using once the temperature starts to rise above your comfort level for your tractor.

The broader question - Is the bottom of the range OK for these engines in the winter?

That’s a broad question with broad answers. Are you talking winter in mid southern states or winter in northern states? Winter on the coast of Washington or winter here in northern ND? Then there’s southern Canada by Ottawa vs. the northern Yukon. Alaska?

There can be over 100°F difference in what people call winter depending on their location. Then there’s wind chill on top of that. What one person is fine with in winter in his location might not apply to another in their location.

My frame of reference is older HP gas engines where there is such a thing as too cool from an engine wear standpoint... Ex) I am talking 160' thermostat vs 180' etc (not using it "cold") Doesn't really boil off moisture and more acids form faster.

I’m certainly no expert. What I’ve grown up with, been told, and could find from reliable sources on the web is that a good diesel oil likes to be in that +190°F range and even well above. I think the tractor over temp alarm would sound before your engine oil started breaking down from the oil's temperature being too high. Bob Is The Oil Guy is one source of info for reading.

At least in my winter weather conditions here, I like keeping the temperature gauge in the midrange or just above while using the tractor. Certainly much better for it than not having the temperature gauge register at all in our cold winter months. Using my covers gives me quick warmups, temps in the midrange, oil temp hot enough to burn off condensation, fuel under the hood is kept warm, no snow drawn into the air intake or engine compartment, etc.
 
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ve9aa

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I've driven diesel cars from 1978 through to 2016 and tractors since 2004 and now near 10 years on a diesel generator. NONE of these have ever sat and idled to warm up. Start and go. Two cars went to 200k, one for 25 years. No problems.

The Isuzu generator driver, in particular, is started automatically and has to immediately spring into service at its approximately 1600 or so rpm it runs at.

Diesels take forever to warm up just sitting idling.
Like Ralph, I've owned a few (VW) diesels in the past. I could never produce enough heat to thaw the windshield, nevermind the cabin, in the dead of winter if I just idled it, waiting, waiting.... I would idle it a little, then take off. Only way to get good heat.

My lawn tractor (diesel) I hop on it and go......approaching 1000hrs

My BX2380, I only idle it a couple minutes(from a heated garage) in the winter, then go....starting out slowly, then more aggressive.
In the summer, the BX2380 gets started up and pretty much go right away.

My neighbour has a 1960's International. He starts it, might idle it a minute, then go. I am pretty sure it's never been broken down the past 18 or so years since I've lived next door to him. My other neighbour (now moved away) had almost the identical tractor. Never an issue.

I dunno. I wouldn't race them right away at -40*C/F, but then again, they're tractors. Aren't they meant to be worked?
 
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TheOldHokie

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My frame of reference is older HP gas engines where there is such a thing as too cool from an engine wear standpoint... Ex) I am talking 160' thermostat vs 180' etc (not using it "cold") Doesn't really boil off moisture and more acids form faster.

I’m certainly no expert. What I’ve grown up with, been told, and could find from reliable sources on the web is that a good diesel oil likes to be in that +190°F range and even well above. I think the tractor over temp alarm would sound before your engine oil started breaking down from the oil's temperature being too high. Bob Is The Oil Guy is one source of info for reading.

At least in my winter weather conditions here, I like keeping the temperature gauge in the midrange or just above while using the tractor. Certainly much better for it than not having the temperature gauge register at all in our cold winter months. Using my covers gives me quick warmups, temps in the midrange, oil temp hot enough to burn off condensation, fuel under the hood is kept warm, no snow drawn into the air intake or engine compartment, etc.
Coolant temperature and oil temperature are two different things. Coolant thermostats open in that 180-190 degree range and coolant temperature is maintained at or just above 210. , The engine oil thermostat on my twin turbo BMWs opens at 210 and oil temperature can and does go considerably higher. The BMWs do not have a coolant temperature gauge but do have an engine oil temperature gauge which provides a hint at what BMW thinks is of greater concern. If would be nice if Kubota provided a transmission oil temperature gauge since that is the real concern on an HST tractor.

Dan
 
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johnjk

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I let it warm up. My winter routine is as follows. Start and let engine smooth out from cold start. Go in and put on overalls, and other winter gear. Back out to Disconnect battery tender and lower rops. Back out of the garage and over to where back blade is setting. Hook up blade (usually a 5-10 min fight). Pull out cigar of the day, admire, trim end and light. Enjoy and ensure good burn. Document tractor for OTT and cigar for other postings later when I’m done working. That’s another 5-10 minutes. By this time I’ve had the B idling at least 15 if not 20 min. Verify rear 3point and FEL operation and time to start playing in the snow. When done, the last thing I do is top off the fuel for the next time.
 
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lynnmor

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I dunno. I wouldn't race them right away at -40*C/F, but then again, they're tractors. Aren't they meant to be worked?
Whatever they are, it just a pile of parts designed to operate best under ideal conditions. Lubricants need to flow, seals need to be compliant and clearances should be right, varied temperatures changes all those things.
 
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ve9aa

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I let it warm up. My winter routine is as follows. Start and let engine smooth out from cold start. Go in and put on overalls, and other winter gear. Back out to Disconnect battery tender and lower rops. Back out of the garage and over to where back blade is setting. Hook up blade (usually a 5-10 min fight). Pull out cigar of the day, admire, trim end and light. Enjoy and ensure good burn. Document tractor for OTT and cigar for other postings later when I’m done working. That’s another 5-10 minutes. By this time I’ve had the B idling at least 15 if not 20 min. Verify rear 3point and FEL operation and time to start playing in the snow. When done, the last thing I do is top off the fuel for the next time.
I don't smoke anymore, but can really appreciate this post.

Well done!
 
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bbxlr8

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Thanks all - like other things in life, everything is relative and "winter" is also which is why I said PA. My version of cold is single digits down to 0 or -10ish?.

However, it seems you northern folks have been sending that polar vortex air down here more often! I don't get too concerned in the balmy teens and 20's 'F.

I have done homemade radiator blockers in other applications before. I know those premade covers are a slick solution if you need them a lot (ND & MN etc) but has anyone made their own...? (maybe should be in the Fabrication section?)
 

bird dogger

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Thanks all - like other things in life, everything is relative and "winter" is also which is why I said PA. My version of cold is single digits down to 0 or -10ish?.

However, it seems you northern folks have been sending that polar vortex air down here more often! I don't get too concerned in the balmy teens and 20's 'F.

I have done homemade radiator blockers in other applications before. I know those premade covers are a slick solution if you need them a lot (ND & MN etc) but has anyone made their own...? (maybe should be in the Fabrication section?)
Kubota seems to have only made a B3350 Snow Mask early on for the B3350 to help with its issues. (I found this out after I showed my dealer what I had come up with for my B2650)

Since I first showed my covers here on OTT, others have asked for a set and or something for their models. These are the models I now have patterns for and make at this time: Winter Front Covers for Sale

With another OTT member's help, we're working on a pattern for a set of covers to fit the L2501 model. They might be ready later this winter or hopefully by next winter for sure.

People have made their own covers/restrictors using anything from cardboard, plastic, bedsheets, carpet scraps, old tarps, etc. They all can work to perform the same function.

It doesn't have to be super cold to benefit from them. They really earn their keep when the temps start to dip below the freezing temps.

I think you'll like the looks of the L2501 covers when they're ready to go. 🙂
 

Henro

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Actually the HST charge circuit runs over relief most of the time so a HST machine may warm up faster than a gear or GST machine may.
Could you expand on this? Somehow it does not seem logical that a pressure relief valve would be designed to be activated most of the time.

I do not know that is why I am asking...
 

top gnome

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Thank you again for all of the replies. I learned quite a bit from this thread. I do have and use a block heater and the tractor is in a attached garage that rarely is below freezing. I have been letting it warm up for 5 minutes after pulling it out of the garage. thank you again. It is my first new tractor and first diesel tractor. 14 whole hours on it now.
 

TheOldHokie

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Could you expand on this? Somehow it does not seem logical that a pressure relief valve would be designed to be activated most of the time.

I do not know that is why I am asking...
Its actually being used as a low pressure regulating device.

Dan

 

Henro

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Its actually being used as a low pressure regulating device.

Dan

So does that mean when warming up the engine, the HST is also warming up?

Sorry for the simplistic question...

Don't have the interest to figure it out on my own. Do have the time though, being retired!

Edit: I see the comment in that video says the heat added by the PRV is not much, but certainly better than nothing...

Did not realize that was a link you posted to a video. Will check it out now. ANOTHER example of being where I am age wise I guess...

At the end of the day, doing what I do can't hurt anything it appears...

2nd edit: I see the comment in the video that heat generated by the activation of the PRV in the circuit is not that significant...But anything more than nothing must be a positive...

3rd edit: NOT sure why my ability to edit posts has turned sour. Thanks for the feedback. Helps me understand, and maybe others also who read this thread...
 
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GreensvilleJay

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re: So does that mean when warming up the engine, the HST is also warming up?

yes, think of HST as a car automatic tranny... as long as the engine is turning, 'tranny' fluid is moving....
 

TheOldHokie

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So does that mean when warming up the engine, the HST is also warming up?
Sort of. On these tractors the engine mounted implement pump and hydrostatic power steering is what is doing the real warm up and generating a lot more heat than the charge pump. But every little bit helps.

Dan