Tier 4 emissions on 2014 kubota 4060

[Retired Iron Peddler]

Bill,
Thanks for your input, it makes sense.
Had concerns buying a 60's tractor due to the new technology. So far it is a non-issue. Great fuel economy and no diesel smell.
When not running a pto attachment keep rpms 1900-2000.
Mark

In addition to no smoke and diesel smell lingering in my shop after starting, the direct injection common rail four cylinder turbocharged diesel engine in my L5460HSTC is quieter running than my old L3830GST with three cylinder naturally aspirated indirect injection diesel engine. With direct injection, the engine starts immediately after turning on the key without waiting for the glow plugs to warm.

According to the readout on the IntelliPanel, my tractor is averaging 1.2 gallons per hour of diesel fuel. To put that figure in perspective, if that were a highway truck being driven at an average speed of 50 mile per hour, the miles per gallon (MPG) would be a little less than 50-MPG. The digital readout also tells me the amount of fuel the tractor has used since new.

According to the maintenance schedule, there is a required turbocharger, EGR system, and DPF cleaning at 1,500 hours. I have no idea what that will cost and I haven't asked my local dealer what the cost would be. I doubt they have a cost established yet since I don't think any Tier 4 tractor has come close to that many hours. It will take me 5-6 years at the rate I use my tractor to reach that many hours of use. By that time there should be plenty of dealer tech training, work experience, and time established to have it done efficiently.

Bill

 

[Cal270]

Bill,

When you are not running the pto, what rpm do you run?
I run a little higher than the L3800 that I had prior. Mainly to keep the engine temp up.

When starting the tractor let it idle at 1,300 rpm until the temp gauge comes up some, 6 minutes or so, and then lightly run the tractor for a bit.

When stopped I let it idle at 1300 rpm, and keep idling to a minimum.

Maybe over doing it but this is a Tier 4 system.

My L3800 this past winter, would let it idle on warm-up for 20-30 minutes.

Mark

 

[Retired Iron Peddler]

Bill,

When you are not running the pto, what rpm do you run?
I run a little higher than the L3800 that I had prior. Mainly to keep the engine temp up.

When starting the tractor let it idle at 1,300 rpm until the temp gauge comes up some, 6 minutes or so, and then lightly run the tractor for a bit.

When stopped I let it idle at 1300 rpm, and keep idling to a minimum.

Maybe over doing it but this is a Tier 4 system.

My L3800 this past winter, would let it idle on warm-up for 20-30 minutes.

Mark

All I've done with the tractor since it was delivered at the end of June is mow. For 540 on the PTO, I run the engine at 2.400 RPM. I have used my grapple a couple of times to load and haul cut brush to one of my burn piles. When using the grapple I slow the engine down to about 1,800-2,000 RPM if I'm not in the transmission mode that changes the engine speed in relation to the speed control pedal.

I don't idle the engine more than a couple of minutes to cool down the turbocharger before shutting it down and I only warm the engine only in the time it takes from starting it, backing out of my shop, closing the shop doors. Unnecessary idling/warm up/cool down time only wastes fuel and creates more soot load in the DPF. Diesels warm much quicker when put under a moderate load. I do the same with my diesel pickups (I've owned 5), I start it and when is shows oil pressure, I put it in gear and go at moderate speed.

Bill

 

[djm1204]

Just a question and if it's in the wrong thread - please just tell me and I'll delete it.

I am reading about the engines and trying to understand some comments - an L3800 vs l3901 ....an I correct that the L3800 does not have the new emissions control stuff and the L3901 does ?

Same apply to L4600 and L4701 ?

I am reading about Tier 4 engines and best I can understand is that a Tier 4 engine has the emissions control "stuff"

How about "Interim Tier 4" engines ? is that with or without the emissions control stuff that will require regren ?

Thanks in advance for any information you can share.

 

[Cal270]

Kubota just regenerated at 80 hours.
Took 13 minutes.
28 hours since last regen.
Tractor ran at 2100 rpm while I ran it.

Most likely it will regen sooner next time with winter coming and less pto time, and more warm up.

Did install a OEM block heater and Battery Tender Jr.

 

[Cal270]

Dgm1204
My L3800 was not tier 4.
Maybe best to stop by a Kubota dealer and sales will be more than willing to explain details.
I was hesitant on buying a Tier 4 but it will be the future of diesel tractors.
Good luck !

 

[Cal270]

Regenerated today at 96.5 hours, 16.5 hrs since last regen. Need to increase rpm to 2350 before the rpm indicator symbol went off.
Cooler weather & I let it idle 15 minutes before using it. No pto time so rpm is mainly 1800-2000 range.
Snow plowed today with fel snow plow. Gravel not froze solid yet so hard to be careful NOT to push gravel around....

 

[sheepfarmer]

Just to add info with another tier 4 tractor, my 3560 regenerated for first time at 20 some odd hours, seems like it took less than 15 minutes, didn't notice the light blinking til I was ready to put it away so had it regen standing still out on the lawn. I couldn't get the parked regeneration sequence to work, but the auto regen sequence worked fine. Mine gets idled a lot because I use it to carry manure out to the back pasture in the bucket and it takes a few minutes to load it. I too don't mind that it doesn't smell of diesel, although the CO is still there. It has been a great tractor so far. I love the ground level fuel fill, the auto throttle, the manual turtle mode for creeping the 72 inch bucket into a 78 inch doorway, the hydraulics that are easy to control...it could make loading up the spreader almost fun.

So far we have not had enough snow to plow in my part of Michigan, Cal you have all the luck! or maybe not if it gets like last winter.

 

[Grateful11]

Just to add info with another tier 4 tractor, my 3560 regenerated for first time at 20 some odd hours, seems like it took less than 15 minutes, didn't notice the light blinking til I was ready to put it away so had it regen standing still out on the lawn. I couldn't get the parked regeneration sequence to work, but the auto regen sequence worked fine. Mine gets idled a lot because I use it to carry manure out to the back pasture in the bucket and it takes a few minutes to load it. I too don't mind that it doesn't smell of diesel, although the CO is still there. It has been a great tractor so far. I love the ground level fuel fill, the auto throttle, the manual turtle mode for creeping the 72 inch bucket into a 78 inch doorway, the hydraulics that are easy to control...it could make loading up the spreader almost fun.

So far we have not had enough snow to plow in my part of Michigan, Cal you have all the luck! or maybe not if it gets like last winter.

So you guys are not really seeing much of the way of negatives on the Tier 4? We're thinking of trading in the L3940 for an L6060, another Open Station. Our L3940 idles a fair amount as it's used mainly for 38 head of breeding stock Herefords on a feedlot that used to be a dairy. That's the main thing that scares me about the Tier 4. Round bales are rolled off by hand with a pitch fork into stanchioned troughs. We're getting a Worksaver Spin-Off skid steer hydraulic hay unroller quoted with the tractor. So a 3rd function will be needed. I think they're pushing the limit on the L3940 for handling all these round bales as it is now. It's not quite 5 years old and has about 1050 hours on it. It's also used to load an IH 155 manure spreader, sometimes as many as 20 loads in one day about once every month or so. It's used for nearly all the chore work around the farm.

Our Youtube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPAR4rxGJNYlQIu7snVQ2nw

 

[Cal270]

Grateful
Check out Sheepfamer post on this topic on Tractor Operating.
Has a link on new Kubota engines changes....mainly turbo engines will no longer have DPM Regeneration!
Check with your dealer to see when this change takes place.
For your application of idling a lot would seem route to go.
Good luck and post what u find.
Cal270

 

[Grateful11]

Grateful
Check out Sheepfamer post on this topic on Tractor Operating.
Has a link on new Kubota engines changes....mainly turbo engines will no longer have DPM Regeneration!
Check with your dealer to see when this change takes place.
For your application of idling a lot would seem route to go.
Good luck and post what u find.
Cal270

I will definitely check into this. Had not heard anything like it anywhere else. Sounds like a win win situation if this happens.
Thanks Cal270.

 

[sheepfarmer]

I am not sure avoiding idling is completely necessary? Cal270's observations, and mine too, are that the dpf doesn't accumulate particles at higher rpm's. And in fact may reduce them if accumulated. But if regeneration when full is seamless when needed, any increase in fuel used would probably be offset by that used if rpm's are run higher than needed for the job at hand? So until I can find more information about optimum use of this engine dpf combination, on mine I have tended to follow directions for warmup, eg 5 min at half rated rpm (around 1300 rpm) for temps above 14F and then use the rpm appropriate to job. So if I am in autothrottle it varies continuously. I don't like clanging my bucket around on the loader and have to put the 72 inch bucket through a 78 inch doorway to dump manure carts into it so slow and gentle is better.

For your use, I would guess your rpm would be plenty high enough under normal useage.

That said each of these engines is different, even in the Grand L 60 series, and not just in the number of cylinders. Mine is naturally aspirated, but some have turbo. It will be interesting when more users have experience with the 2014's for a couple of years.

 

[nickelplated5s]

Tier 4 standards are just what comes out the tailpipe. How the manufacturer gets there is up to them. My Stupid Duty, Chevy, VW, etc. all have to meet the same standard. Search my user name here, http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f148/, and you'll see why I bought an '09 L4740.

Prolonged idling is bad. There is a mod for SD's that an upfitter switch can be used to bump up the idle. When the computer shuts you down the odds are you won't be in traffic

 

[sheepfarmer]

Nickelplated, I don't think I found the right threads, you have several hundred posts on that forum! But if SD refers to a truck I don't have any basis for comparison, my "new" truck is a 2003 Duramax...new relative to the 79F350 I traded in.

The only thing I can add is that it sounds like the new Kubotas, or at least mine, might have something like the mod you are describing. The manual hand throttle sets the lower limit for the rpm when you are running in auto throttle. Autothrottle makes the tractor behave like a car: step on the gas and both the speed and the rpm increase simultaneously. If we can find out what that minimum ought to be that would be good. I sent an email to Kubota about idling versus shutting it off, since I'm curious.

Yes I am glad there are no traffic jams on my farm!

 

[sheepfarmer]

I emailed kubota to see if I could find out any more information about idling versus shutting the engine off versus running up the rpm when not needed. The replies basically support what other folks have posted from their dealers. I paraphrase because Kubota would apparently prefer that their emails not be circulated.

1. It is ok to turn your Kubota off and on to avoid idling.

(This is contrary to most older diesel engine practices as I learned them. Anyone know what's different in these engines? Or why it was bad for the older engines for that matter? One answer was that these are small engines, and the wear and tear on starters etc is less of a problem than on the engine in a semi.)

2. Higher rpm and heavier load are important to avoid particle accumulation and regens. He emphasized load too. Basically work your tractor

3. You need to have a minimum rpm for regeneration to occur. (That is made clear in directions for regeneration. My observation would be you do have to pay attention to the lights on the dash.)

I did not get an answer to the question if there was a down side to frequent regeneration, eg wear on the DOC etc, aside from the inconvenience.

The person replying mentioned that there were many theories and theorists...

 

[Grateful11]

We spent close to 2 hours with the dealer I spoke of earlier in this thread. I sent him a link about the DOC emissions engines. He said he would read over it and he also knew who to call at Kubota that should know if there are any plans to put these engines in US bound tractors. Now if he follows through with it maybe I'll have some more info on this soon.

He did say that supposedly this coming Fall the 80+HP Kubota's will be using DEF and DPF and it will add about 15% to the cost of the tractors. He said has also been told that the Grand L series will be running DEF within 2 years.

Off-Topic he said between the Tier IV emissions running up cost and the new NC farm tax exempt changes it appears their sales may take a big hit this year.

 

[ItBmine]

Just a thought. Why don't we all email these guys to show them interest in DPF deletes for the small compacts. They already do agricultural tractors, and their deletes and programs work wonders on big rigs.
http://www.dieselspec.ca/

It would be pretty easy for them to come up with a fix as these small compacts are a lot less complicated than the systems on big trucks.

 

[nickelplated5s]

Nickelplated, I don't think I found the right threads, you have several hundred posts on that forum! But if SD refers to a truck I don't have any basis for comparison, my "new" truck is a 2003 Duramax...new relative to the 79F350 I traded in.

Been working too much, SD = Super Duty. Mine's been in 9 times in 90K miles for emission faults. If you poke around the other site you will find them.

Based on what I've learned from my SD there will be temperature sensors in the exhaust system. Those are a known fault, I and many others carry a spare. DEF system is the second biggest issue, pump, heater, sensors. In the SD when you get the add DEF message you need to add more than 1/2 for the sensor to reset. Stupid because 1 jug is less than 1/2. I keep mine full. DEF in fuel will cause an injector pump to fail.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Nickelplated, I think I ran across an OTT post in which you mentioned being stuck in an intersection with a horsetrailer...my worst nightmare. The designers of those trucks should be ashamed of themselves. Yankee ingenuity should be able to do better. I understand better where you are coming from.

 

[nickelplated5s]

Three horses, four German Shorthairs and my better half. No one got hurt though. The truck had been in two days prior and they couldn't diagnose. I've learned a lot about T4 stuff over the years. There's a new post here from an L3901 owner who had the engine runaway. I'm very glad I opted for a low hour 2009.