Thought it was hydrolocked, but it’s not

[Poulette]

Hi everyone,

I have a problem with the engine on my Kubota BX2350.

The issue started when I tried to turn on the engine, but the starter couldn’t make it do a full tour of the engine. It would turn 3/4 of the way and then get blocked. When I tried to turn it manually with the fan, same issue, it turns easily for part of the cycle, and then it becomes very hard to turn. It's been running just fine until this happened.

In the past, the tractor was flipped over and got hydrolocked with oil. I had fixed that by taking out the glow plugs and turning the fan to spit out the excess oil through the holes. Since the issue now felt similar, I tried doing the same: taking out the glow plugs, hoping that there was something inside there to eject, and the fix would be easy.

But it was not the case. The engine still won’t turn easily for the full cycle and nothing came out through the holes, (although it was definitely easier to turn the fan with the glow plugs out). But one thing I did notice is that when it was the part of the cycle where it became difficult to turn, there is a creaking noise.

I recorded a video (as a link here since only images can be attached on the forum) so you can see/hear what I mean. At the beginning it turns easily, but then when I start to turn it back and forth, that’s when there’s resistance to turning, and you can hear a creaking noise.

It does not appear to be specific to any cylinder, as the difficult part of the turn happens at different cylinders if I keep turning it (I can tell it’s different cylinders because I can feel the air being pushed out of each of the glow plug holes)

Any idea what this may be? An issue with the crankshaft maybe? Not sure how to investigate further, so any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much!

 

[Fordtech86]

There is no clutch on those, right? Could the resistance you are feeling be coming from the hst? Not sure how hard it is to get the prop shaft from the engine to hst out, but may be worth a shot to isolate it to a base engine concern or not. Could it just be a weak battery/starter/wiring/connection issue causing it to not turn over?

Hard to tell from the video, but the creaking noise sounds like it’s just the belt from trying to spin it by the fan.

 

[Torinodan]

That sounds bad. Busted rings?

 

[cthomas]

Remove fan belt to verify not accessory issue. What's oil look like?

 

[GSD-Keegan]

Maybe your digging way to deep?? Thinking there was a hydro lock or engine issue??
Is it possible the battery is weak or defective?? Have you tried a known good battery or even using boosters cables from another battery or vehicle??

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

So with the glow plugs out will it Crank full revolutions?
I do believe the noise your hearing is an injector injecting fuel, it is an odd noise???

 

[Poulette]

Thank you all for the replies! To answer the questions:

Fordtech86: There is no clutch on those, right? Could the resistance you are feeling be coming from the hst? Not sure how hard it is to get the prop shaft from the engine to hst out, but may be worth a shot to isolate it to a base engine concern or not. Could it just be a weak battery/starter/wiring/connection issue causing it to not turn over?
Hard to tell from the video, but the creaking noise sounds like it’s just the belt from trying to spin it by the fan.

Indeed no clutch. And after a little googling it seems doable to try to disconnect the prop shaft – will try that! As for the creaking (which maybe is unrelated) it doesn't seem to come from the belt if I put my ear down; it's definitely from the engine side.

Torinodan: That sounds bad. Busted rings?

Could be I guess the only way to know would be to take off the head. I'll have to try this eventually if it turns out no easier fix works!

GSD-Keegan: Is it possible the battery is weak or defective?? Have you tried a known good battery or even using boosters cables from another battery or vehicle??

Battery seems fine, and given that the resistance to turning the engine happens even when turning via the fan manually (so it's not the starter just being too weak), I ruled out any electrical issues.

cthomas: Remove fan belt to verify not accessory issue. What's oil look like?

Oil looks okay, it was changed only about 15 operating hours ago, so should be pretty fresh. I'll take a deeper look at the fan belt but a quick visual inspection doesn't show anything obvious.

North Idaho Wolfman: So with the glow plugs out will it Crank full revolutions?
I do believe the noise your hearing is an injector injecting fuel, it is an odd noise???

Yep it goes a full revolution with the glow plugs out, but with a lot of effort on one part of the cycle. It's definitely not normal.
Interesting point about the injector. It's true I do see a vapor come out of the glow plug hole at same time the noise happens (you can even see it in my video). I assumed the injectors were electrical though and thus wouldn't inject just by me turning the fan – could it be they're actually mechanical?

 

[AOW162435]

Thank you all for the replies! To answer the questions:


Indeed no clutch. And after a little googling it seems doable to try to disconnect the prop shaft – will try that! As for the creaking (which maybe is unrelated) it doesn't seem to come from the belt if I put my ear down; it's definitely from the engine side.



Could be I guess the only way to know would be to take off the head. I'll have to try this eventually if it turns out no easier fix works!



Battery seems fine, and given that the resistance to turning the engine happens even when turning via the fan manually (so it's not the starter just being too weak), I ruled out any electrical issues.



Oil looks okay, it was changed only about 15 operating hours ago, so should be pretty fresh. I'll take a deeper look at the fan belt but a quick visual inspection doesn't show anything obvious.



Yep it goes a full revolution with the glow plugs out, but with a lot of effort on one part of the cycle. It's definitely not normal.
Interesting point about the injector. It's true I do see a vapor come out of the glow plug hole at same time the noise happens (you can even see it in my video). I assumed the injectors were electrical though and thus wouldn't inject just by me turning the fan – could it be they're actually mechanical?

My assumption is that the injector pump is engine driven. Thus mechanical.

Andreas

 

[GeoHorn]

Bad battery.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Really need to CONFIRM 'battery seems fine', with a proper load test at store or replace with a KNOWN good battery. Also could be bad battery cables.Those can rot from the inside out.
What's unknown to us is age of tractor. Was battery replaced after the hydrolock issue ? How many hours put on it since then ? Does it get used regularly ?

 

[D2Cat]

Thank you all for the replies! To answer the questions:


Indeed no clutch. And after a little googling it seems doable to try to disconnect the prop shaft – will try that! As for the creaking (which maybe is unrelated) it doesn't seem to come from the belt if I put my ear down; it's definitely from the engine side.



Could be I guess the only way to know would be to take off the head. I'll have to try this eventually if it turns out no easier fix works!



Battery seems fine, and given that the resistance to turning the engine happens even when turning via the fan manually (so it's not the starter just being too weak), I ruled out any electrical issues.



Oil looks okay, it was changed only about 15 operating hours ago, so should be pretty fresh. I'll take a deeper look at the fan belt but a quick visual inspection doesn't show anything obvious.



Yep it goes a full revolution with the glow plugs out, but with a lot of effort on one part of the cycle. It's definitely not normal.
Interesting point about the injector. It's true I do see a vapor come out of the glow plug hole at same time the noise happens (you can even see it in my video). I assumed the injectors were electrical though and thus wouldn't inject just by me turning the fan – could it be they're actually mechanical?

Yes, mechanical. Might have them tested/rebuilt at a repair shop.

 

[fried1765]

Really need to CONFIRM 'battery seems fine', with a proper load test at store or replace with a KNOWN good battery. Also could be bad battery cables.Those can rot from the inside out.
What's unknown to us is age of tractor. Was battery replaced after the hydrolock issue ? How many hours put on it since then ? Does it get used regularly ?

Very few are willing to believe that they have a bad battery, and most never figure it out until many hours of unnecessary frustration.
A cheap 100A carbon pile load tester can be bought online from NAPA for $29.99, and it can be used when/as necessary, for many YEARS.
Load testing is free at auto parts stores, but using a load tester without having to remove the battery is most handy.
I have a 500A carbon pile load tester, (I have -$1600 worth (4) T-1275 golf cart batteries) and the 500A load tester only cost me $75.
Can't be hauling those huge batteries off to some distant place to have them load tested, and although a 500A load is not really adequate, it is enough to be a somewhat helpful indication of battery condition.

 

[Poulette]

Well I appreciate everyone who insisted that I check the battery! Turns out the wire coming out of the alternator came loose and wasn't charging the battery anymore. I used another battery to jump start it then let it run for a bit with the alternator actually connected.

I feel both relieved that it was an easy fix, and dumb for overcomplicating things.

Thanks again to everyone for the help and various suggestions

 

[GeoHorn]

Well I appreciate everyone who insisted that I check the battery! Turns out the wire coming out of the alternator came loose and wasn't charging the battery anymore. I used another battery to jump start it then let it run for a bit with the alternator actually connected.

I feel both relieved that it was an easy fix, and dumb for overcomplicating things.

Thanks again to everyone for the help and various suggestions

I spent untold miserable hours removing/reinstalling a starter motor on a JD compactor (really difficult, hanging upside-down while manipulating small parts in a difficult installation) over…and over…and over….
Because I had bought the machine from someone who said the battery was ”new”… AND the battery would Lite up the headlamps and simultaneously blow the Horn Loud…. leading me to believe it was ”good.”

The starter/alternator rebuilder rebuilt or replaced that starter THREE TIMES…always surprised the windings and the solenoid coil was fried… when it had tested ”Good” previously before it left his shop.

After becoming timid to take it back for a FOURTH time…. I “bit the bullet” and bought a New Battery for $130… Problem solved.

It’s sometimes difficult to believe a starting problem is a battery….. but it IS more often than one might imagine.

 

[GeoHorn]

deleted double post

 

[ve9aa]

I spent untold miserable hours removing/reinstalling a starter motor on a JD compactor (really difficult, hanging upside-down while manipulating small parts in a difficult installation) over…and over…and over….
Because I had bought the machine from someone who said the battery was ”new”… AND the battery would Lite up the headlamps and simultaneously blow the Horn Loud…. leading me to believe it was ”good.”

The starter/alternator rebuilder rebuilt or replaced that starter THREE TIMES…always surprised the windings and the solenoid coil was fried… when it had tested ”Good” previously before it left his shop.

After becoming timid to take it back for a FOURTH time…. I “bit the bullet” and bought a New Battery for $130… Problem solved.

It’s sometimes difficult to believe a starting problem is a battery….. but it IS more often than one might imagine.

THIS, right here.

I've only been a member here a couple years (but a member of a Classic car forum another 23+ years) and a bike forum about another 6+ years.

If I had a dollar every time someone swore up and down the battery (and/or cables) were "good", "very good" , "new" or "look ok" and they ended replacing who-knows-what else for parts or spending oodles of money on various mechanics, I'd be rich.

This is not (really) aimed at the OP, It happens.

Just sayin'

 

[Chanceywd]

I spent untold miserable hours removing/reinstalling a starter motor on a JD compactor (really difficult, hanging upside-down while manipulating small parts in a difficult installation) over…and over…and over….
Because I had bought the machine from someone who said the battery was ”new”… AND the battery would Lite up the headlamps and simultaneously blow the Horn Loud…. leading me to believe it was ”good.”

The starter/alternator rebuilder rebuilt or replaced that starter THREE TIMES…always surprised the windings and the solenoid coil was fried… when it had tested ”Good” previously before it left his shop.

After becoming timid to take it back for a FOURTH time…. I “bit the bullet” and bought a New Battery for $130… Problem solved.

It’s sometimes difficult to believe a starting problem is a battery….. but it IS more often than one might imagine.

I learned the hard way about 45 years ago on a 64 rambler that was my work car. It had run the battery down and I missed diagnosed and bought a new one only to have it weak and not start a week later. Then I used a meter and figured out it was a worn alternator v-belt that was riding in the bottom of the groove and not gripping on the sides. I tried turning the alternator by its fan to see if it was tight and it slipped. So a new belt and a check with a meter and no more dead battery. Always check for charging voltage and voltage drops now.

Bill