Tandem Axle Trailer Tongue and Tractor Drawbar At Different Heights

UpNorthMI

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3200, L3901, MX5800, SVL75-2, KX040
May 12, 2020
850
568
93
Up North, MI
I'm looking at a tandem axle dump trailer and wondering what I should do when the drawbar height is not in line with the height of the tongue on the tandem trailer. Take a look at this video:


It looks like the tongue on the trailer may be as much as 6" or more above the drawbar height of the tractor and that the drawbar has been fitted with a vertical extension post. Is this a solution or should I be towing from a receiver frame attached to my 3pt hitch? I've always been advised that any heavy tow load should be done using the drawbar.

One thought was to weld a height adjustable ball mount to the top of the drawbar to get the trailer connected level, I assume there must be something available that solves this problem?

I'm evaluating buying a single axle 2T version or this heavier twin axle trailer shown in the video to use with my L3901 and my MX5800 for hauling firewood and occasionally sand and gravel up to the capacity of the trailer. My land is flat and I'm looking to take things steady, I sometimes have to do a 2 mile round trip to get to the far corners. These trailers come with just the dump cylinder and hoses to fit to the rear hydraulic remotes, nice and simple.

I'm sure I'm not the first to consider this issue and look forward to any input.
 
Last edited:

sheepfarmer

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3560, B2650, Gator, Ingersoll mower
Nov 14, 2014
4,449
677
113
MidMichigan
I vote for draw bar modification. That’s a lot of weight and torque to put on 3 pt hitch. Since you have a couple of big tractors, an adjustable height mod would be useful.
 

UpNorthMI

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3200, L3901, MX5800, SVL75-2, KX040
May 12, 2020
850
568
93
Up North, MI
I think the tandem axles are carrying the weight of the load my tractor is just pulling it, l pull a large heavy 6’ wide angled disc attachment with ground contact with my MX 3 pt hitch, is a trailer any different?

l could buy the single axle 2 ton version which will connect straight to the drawbar with no issue, I’m concerned that the load will be larger from a single axle trailer due to increased tongue load on the drawbar.
 

NCL4701

Well-known member

Equipment
L4701, T2290, WC68, grapple, BB1572, Farmi W50R, Howes 500, 16kW IMD gen, WG24
Apr 27, 2020
2,788
4,227
113
Central Piedmont, NC
Have pulled trailers and wagons off 3 pt quite a bit. There are some issues with that, as you probably know, which can be avoided by using the drawbar. Obviously you can pull with the 3 pt; if you can pull a plow you can pull a trailer.

Problem pulling is when you have the hitch point above the centerline of the rear axle which tends to pull the front wheels off the ground. That problem would be the same whether you’re pulling from the drawbar with a riser above the rear axle centerline or the three point set too high. The 3 pt connection to the trailer is generally further away from the rear axle than the drawbar which increases the amount of torque applied by the trailer by the tongue weight and by pulling above the rear axle (if you’re doing that).

Problem with stopping with 3 pt is it floats unless you have some method to lock it in place. The surge brakes would be great but they have to have something to push against. If you’re going downhill and the hitch gets above center of the lift arm pins on the tractor, the trailer can push the hitch up, and worst case if it pops off a ball hitch it can hit you in the back. You can solve that problem with a stay strap that attaches to the top link on one end and lift pin or drawbar on the other like the photo. Have seen some that are slotted to allow adjustment. If you’re on flat ground maybe not a problem.

You can pull a trailer with the 3 point, you just have to consider the force vectors involved and set it up to make sure the trailer doesn’t hit you in the back and the front of the tractor stays on the ground.

D60C5E96-D9A4-4B24-ADAC-FA155ED5ED4E.jpeg
 

i7win7

Well-known member

Equipment
BX2370, B2650 grapple, tree puller, trailer mover, 3 point hoist, mower, tiller
Feb 21, 2020
3,379
3,982
113
Central, IL
One thought was to weld a height adjustable ball mount to the top of the drawbar to get the trailer connected level, I assume there must be something available that solves this problem?
I think the problem is dumping, all material weight is transferred to rear axle. If you can weld or take parts to weld shop, why not add 2" receiver to drawbar.

 

i7win7

Well-known member

Equipment
BX2370, B2650 grapple, tree puller, trailer mover, 3 point hoist, mower, tiller
Feb 21, 2020
3,379
3,982
113
Central, IL
As a proud owner of a 3pt trailer mover, I have reservations of dumping a loaded trailer.
20140905_123006.jpg
 

nbryan

Well-known member

Equipment
B2650 BH77 LA534 54" ssqa Forks B2782B BB1560 Woods M5-4 MaxxHaul 50039
Jan 3, 2019
1,231
763
113
Hadashville, Manitoba, Canada
I'm looking at a tandem axle dump trailer and wondering what I should do when the drawbar height is not in line with the height of the tongue on the tandem trailer. Take a look at this video:


It looks like the tongue on the trailer may be as much as 6" or more above the drawbar height of the tractor and that the drawbar has been fitted with a vertical extension post. Is this a solution or should I be towing from a receiver frame attached to my 3pt hitch? I've always been advised that any heavy tow load should be done using the drawbar.

One thought was to weld a height adjustable ball mount to the top of the drawbar to get the trailer connected level, I assume there must be something available that solves this problem?

I'm evaluating buying a single axle 2T version or this heavier twin axle trailer shown in the video to use with my L3901 and my MX5800 for hauling firewood and occasionally sand and gravel up to the capacity of the trailer. My land is flat and I'm looking to take things steady, I sometimes have to do a 2 mile round trip to get to the far corners. These trailers come with just the dump cylinder and hoses to fit to the rear hydraulic remotes, nice and simple.

I'm sure I'm not the first to consider this issue and look forward to any input.
This is my setup for my B2650 and 5K single axle dumper. Love it. I will be adding a chain to hold the 3-point receiver hitch down when dumping heavier loads. With this 5000lb. gvw fully loaded trailer properly balanced there will be around 500 lbs at the hitch (10%), and the tractor 3-point is rated at over 2100 lbs capacity at lift point. That's more than the standard drawbar's capacity. I fill it with firewood, or wood chips, or compost, and it hauls like a dream. Compost loads pretty much maxed out the trailer, it's almost as dense as regular topsoil.
IMG_20201217_130759365.jpg

IMG_20201217_150157632.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users

UpNorthMI

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3200, L3901, MX5800, SVL75-2, KX040
May 12, 2020
850
568
93
Up North, MI
This is my setup for my B2650 and 5K single axle dumper. Love it. I will be adding a chain to hold the 3-point receiver hitch down when dumping heavier loads. With this 5000lb. gvw fully loaded trailer properly balanced there will be around 500 lbs at the hitch (10%), and the tractor 3-point is rated at over 2100 lbs capacity at lift point. That's more than the standard drawbar's capacity. I fill it with firewood, or wood chips, or compost, and it hauls like a dream. Compost loads pretty much maxed out the trailer, it's almost as dense as regular topsoil.
View attachment 52832
View attachment 52831
That's a pretty big trailer and must have some weight when loaded. Where are you planning to chain it to? Top of receiver frame to drawbar?
 

Thunder chicken

Active member

Equipment
M7060
Dec 29, 2019
295
120
43
Northern ontario
I’ve used the 3pt trailer movers like shown above, wirh my double axle (7k) dump trailer. As an experiment, I didn’t chain the 3pt down and dumped a load, on slightly I level ground. The 3pt came up and gave everything quite a shake and could have been bad.
I chained it down to the drawbar for a while but forgetting it’s chained could have bad endings for something. Plus i tow On the public roads at speed.
so I had a drawbar receiver made up. The trailer has an adjustable height coupler, I guess the one you are looking at does not. But you can get those ‘drop’ receivers, use it backwards to get the height?
47F321B3-B6EC-44B9-93D3-D9D8FCDEE6F1.jpeg
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

Henro

Well-known member

Equipment
B2910, BX2200, KX41-2V mini Ex., Beer fridge
May 24, 2019
5,781
2,965
113
North of Pittsburgh PA
I pulled my 5x8 single-axle dump trailer with my BX2200 A LOT a couple summers ago, using an attachment similar to what Huey posted the picture of above. 200 or 300 loads, did not keep track. Up some grades where I about lost traction sometimes, depending on soil dampness. Generally carried about a ton of dirt in the trailer, or a bit more.

One advantage I found using the 3PH was when dumping I could raise the 3PH full up, before raising the dump bed, and increase the dump angle a bit, which was desirable in my case.

The risk of using the 3PH when pulling the trailer is that there is no down pressure, and if things shift, the hitch could suddenly raise to the full up position, unexpectedly. I did not run into this, but tried to make sure when loading the trailer I had ample tongue weight.

Pulling from the draw bar is probably the safest way. But if you keep in mind the difference with the 3PH, it can work pretty reliably too, in my experience anyway...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

nbryan

Well-known member

Equipment
B2650 BH77 LA534 54" ssqa Forks B2782B BB1560 Woods M5-4 MaxxHaul 50039
Jan 3, 2019
1,231
763
113
Hadashville, Manitoba, Canada
That's a pretty big trailer and must have some weight when loaded. Where are you planning to chain it to? Top of receiver frame to drawbar?
Yes. The comment about raising the 3-point hydraulically while chained is a good point, and I'll have to experiment carefully a bit to be certain that there won't be damage caused by that, for sure!
 

GreensvilleJay

Well-known member

Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
Apr 2, 2019
11,396
4,897
113
Greensville,Ontario,Canada
Modify the trailer tongue to lower the ball coupler! That way you can USE the drawbar. 3 sections of 2by2 tubing,staggered an inch will give you a 6" drop. You've probably seen trailers with this setup , though usually only 2 or 4 ". Going 6" is not a big deal.
 

UpNorthMI

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3200, L3901, MX5800, SVL75-2, KX040
May 12, 2020
850
568
93
Up North, MI
I’ve used the 3pt trailer movers like shown above, wirh my double axle (7k) dump trailer. As an experiment, I didn’t chain the 3pt down and dumped a load, on slightly I level ground. The 3pt came up and gave everything quite a shake and could have been bad.
I chained it down to the drawbar for a while but forgetting it’s chained could have bad endings for something. Plus i tow On the public roads at speed.
so I had a drawbar receiver made up. The trailer has an adjustable height coupler, I guess the one you are looking at does not. But you can get those ‘drop’ receivers, use it backwards to get the height?
View attachment 52848
Thanks, this was also the best solution that I came up with for the double axle dump farm trailer. also good suggestion to modify trailer tongue height from other members.

I’m leaning towards buying the 2 ton single axle version for simplicity and cost. The single axle version is also half the weight at only 700lbs and I can use either my L3901 or my MX5800 to tow it without any drawbar modifications, both have rear remotes to operate the trailer dump feature. I will buy the 6’ length trailer box as I need to get into tight woodland areas, to load cut tree logs or rounds. Most loading will be by grapple, plan to put my order in next week.
 

BA76

Active member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
MX5400 Tractor, RB3784 Rear Blade, RCF2072 Brush Mower, FDR1672 Finish Mower
Dec 21, 2020
85
105
33
Illinois
I’ve used the 3pt trailer movers like shown above, wirh my double axle (7k) dump trailer. As an experiment, I didn’t chain the 3pt down and dumped a load, on slightly I level ground. The 3pt came up and gave everything quite a shake and could have been bad.
I chained it down to the drawbar for a while but forgetting it’s chained could have bad endings for something. Plus i tow On the public roads at speed.
so I had a drawbar receiver made up. The trailer has an adjustable height coupler, I guess the one you are looking at does not. But you can get those ‘drop’ receivers, use it backwards to get the height?
View attachment 52848
Thats exactly what I’ve been picturing for my tractor drawbar. I thought I put the receiver on top tho so the trailer weight would be directly down on the drawbar instead of underneath, pulling down on the adapter frame. I want to be able to transport my e35 Bobcat mini-excavator around the farm. I have a 14,000lb tilt top trailer. When positioned correctly the trailer axels support most of the excavator weight.
 

UpNorthMI

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3200, L3901, MX5800, SVL75-2, KX040
May 12, 2020
850
568
93
Up North, MI
Thats exactly what I’ve been picturing for my tractor drawbar. I thought I put the receiver on top tho so the trailer weight would be directly down on the drawbar instead of underneath, pulling down on the adapter frame. I want to be able to transport my e35 Bobcat mini-excavator around the farm. I have a 14,000lb tilt top trailer. When positioned correctly the trailer axels support most of the excavator weight.
The MX has a much greater capacity at the drawbar, I looked up the maximum recommended trailer weight for my tractors:

L series - 2,000lbs
MX 5800 - 7,700 lbs

Be careful with your trailer and mini ex, the combined weight will be over 10,000 lbs, slow and steady!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

GeoHorn

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
M4700DT, LA1002FEL, Ferguson5-8B Compactor-Roller, 10KDumpTrailer, RTV-X900
May 18, 2018
6,039
3,316
113
Texas
Modify the trailer tongue to lower the ball coupler! That way you can USE the drawbar. 3 sections of 2by2 tubing,staggered an inch will give you a 6" drop. You've probably seen trailers with this setup , though usually only 2 or 4 ". Going 6" is not a big deal.
Pardon the disagreement...but that is one of the last things to do, IMO.

Most dump trailers already incorporate an adjustable ball-height and that option should be used before anything else. The next option would be as Thunder Chicken suggested above. The worst solutions will be to weld on the draw-bar (when bolting is almost always better using correct hardware such as grade-8) and the alteration of the trailer tongue and using the 3-pt without hold-downs are outright hazardous. YMMV
 

GreensvilleJay

Well-known member

Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
Apr 2, 2019
11,396
4,897
113
Greensville,Ontario,Canada
My comments were based on this being an 'offroad' only trailer so It only has to attach to the OPs tractor. I did a quiklook in Ontario at SA NHS dumpers and none up here have adjustable tongue heights,even the TA minidumpers are fixed height. Both of my highway used dumpers are fixed height. If the OP wants to use on the road,he'll have to ask IF the bearings/hubs are rated for highway use. Usually the MFR will use low cost(cheaper) 'low speed' hubs for offroad trailers..saves them money,higher profit.
TC's idea works fine when you add a 6" riser sleeve. I do that when I haul dumper with pickup. Fun part is trying to remember WHERE the 6" riser/2-5/16 ball got dropped last time I used it.....