SOLVED BX23S FEL lift stopped working?

[leveraddict]

Well I determined the hose with the yellow tape is up and white tape is down or return. I removed the white down or return line put the hose in a bucket started the machine and the loader raised just as it should! I guess I have bigger problems?

 

[TheOldHokie]

Well I determined the hose with the yellow tape is up and white tape is down or return. I removed the white down or return line put the hose in a bucket started the machine and the loader raised just as it should! I guess I have bigger problems?
View attachment 106497

Good Job!!

We now know:

1. Pressurized oil il is getting into the base of the cylinder - e.g. the coupler on the base end hose is properly connected.
2. With the rod end hose disconnected the cylinders extend because the oil on the rod end can dump into the bucket via the open end of the hose.
3. When the hose is reconnected the rod end oil is blocked and the cylinders cannot extend.

So what is blocking the oil flow when the rod end hose is connected? First possibility is that quick coupler is not properly connected,

How do we test that? The 4 way coupler on the tractor side makes that a little tougher. No easy way to disconnect that pipe. Normally I would tell you to disconnect the power beyond line between the loader val;ve and the tractor and repeat the test you just ran using the power beyond hose. That will testthe coupler and teh path through the loader valve in one fell swoop. That may not be real easy given the layout of the BX23 plumbing. Here is a picture of the loader valve hoses. Can you access the connection I have circled in red?

Dan

 

[leveraddict]

Good Job!!

We now know:

1. Pressurized oil il is getting into the base of the cylinder - e.g. the coupler on the base end hose is properly connected.
2. With the rod end hose disconnected the cylinders extend because the oil on the rod end can dump into the bucket via the open end of the hose.
3. When the hose is reconnected the rod end oil is blocked and the cylinders cannot extend.

So what is blocking the oil flow when the rod end hose is connected? First possibility is that quick coupler is not properly connected

How do we test that? The 4 way coupler on the tractor side makes that a little tougher. No easy way to disconnect that pipe. Normally I would tell you to disconnect the power beyond line between the loader val;ve and the tractor and repeat the test you just ran using the power beyond hose. That will testthe coupler and teh path through the loader valve in one fell swoop. That may not be real easy given the layout of the BX23 plumbing. Here is a picture of the loader valve hoses. Can you access the connection I have circled in red?

Dan

View attachment 106498

"So what is blocking the oil flow when the rod end hose is connected? First possibility is that quick coupler is not properly connected"

So I take it the yellow hose (UP) pushes fluid out through the quick coupler to the loader rod to lift and the white (DOWN) return has (NO PRESSURE OUT) it line lets fluid return through the quick coupler back to the tank? When I remove the quick coupler I get some oil drip which I never saw before from the white connector like it wont let fluid return?

 

[TheOldHokie]

"So what is blocking the oil flow when the rod end hose is connected? First possibility is that quick coupler is not properly connected"

So I take it the yellow hose (UP) pushes fluid out through the quick coupler to the loader rod to lift and the white (DOWN) return has (NO PRESSURE OUT) it line lets fluid return through the quick coupler back to the tank? When I remove the quick coupler I get some oil drip which I never saw before from the white connector like it wont let fluid return?

Sorry - I take the basics for granted.

To extend a double acting cylinder pressurized oil is pumped into the base end. That forces the rod and piston to move towards the rod end. The oil that is in the rod end is pushed out by the piston and goes to tank. If the rod end oil cannot exit the cylinder the cylinder is hydraulicslly locked and will not extend. That is what is happening on your loader. We need to find what is blocking that rid rnd flow and fix it.

One way we can test the coupler is a slight variation on the test you just did. Disconnect the rod end hose as before but this time put a length of cheap vinyl tubing on the end of the coupler. Put the other end of the tubing in the bucket. Now stsrt the tractor and move the joystick to lower. It does not matter that the loader is already down. If the coupler is securely connected you will get a garden hose spray of oil out of the tubing. If no oil the coupler is not properly connected

Dan

 

[leveraddict]

So lets see if I did this correctly! Same line as before return line from cylinder. Last test you had me do I ran the rubber line into a pail and then was able to lift the loader while fluid came out the line.

For this test I think you want me to connect a length of tubing to the 90 deg. elbow coming from the cylinder and push down on loader joystick. I did that with bucket on the ground but nothing came from the elbow. So I lifted the bucket a few inches and dropped the loader and I did have oil shooting out the elbow.

 

[TheOldHokie]

So lets see if I did this correctly! Same line as before return line from cylinder. Last test you had me do I ran the rubber line into a pail and then was able to lift the loader while fluid came out the line.

For this test I think you want me to connect a length of tubing to the 90 deg. elbow coming from the cylinder and push down on loader joystick. I did that with bucket on the ground but nothing came from the elbow. So I lifted the bucket a few inches and dropped the loader and I did have oil shooting out the elbow. View attachment 106521

Nope. What I want you to disconnect id the hose at tje 4 way coupler. Put the tubing on the male thread on the coupler and the other end in the bucket. Start the tractor and move the joystick to the loader down position. If yhe coupler is connected you will get guch of pressurized oil out of the tube. No oil mrans the coupler is not working.

Dan

 

[leveraddict]

Ok give me a couple minutes!

 

[leveraddict]

Nope. What I want you to disconnect id the hose at tje 4 way coupler. Put the tubing on the male thread on the coupler and the other end in the bucket. Start the tractor and move the joystick to the loader down position. If yhe coupler is connected you will get guch of pressurized oil out of the tube. No oil mrans the coupler is not working.

Dan

Ok, I disconnected the white marked (For down) metal tubing on the top side of quick coupler. Started it up and pushed down on the joystick. Plenty of fluid coming through! The quick coupler has a good connection and is working fine! Next?

 

[TheOldHokie]

Ok, I disconnected the white marked (For down) metal tubing on the top side of quick coupler. Started it up and pushed down on the
joystick. Plenty of fluid coming through! The quick coupler has a good connection and is working fine! Next?

Hmmmmm.........

This is pointing to the 3pt which I thought we covered early on.. Let me go back over the behavior just to be sure we are on the same page.

The loader bucket curl and dump functions work fine

The loader will not raise.

Can you use down pressure on the loader to lift the front of the tractor off the ground?

Dan

 

[leveraddict]

Hmmmmm.........

This is pointing to the 3pt which I thought we covered early on.. Let me go back over the behavior just to be sure we are on the same page.

The loader bucket curl and dump functions work fine

The loader will not raise.

Can you use down pressure on the loader to lift the front of the tractor off the ground?

Dan

I can not raise the tractor off the ground using down pressure. I could with the dump function but thats not what your looking for.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I can not raise the tractor off the ground using down pressure. I could with the dump function but thats not what your looking for.

Thats right. We never talked about down pressure snd I just wanted to be sure that was not working as well. That fits with everything else.

I assume there are no remote valves or outlets on the machine. The factory valves dont fit the BX23 and no one has added a DIY valve?

This certsinly looks and smells like the 3pt valve is not in neutral as it should be and is blocking the power beyond line. The 3pt lever is full down and the lift arms are in the lowered position?

Dan

 

[leveraddict]

There are no remote valves or add on"s shes bone stock! 3 point lever is in middle position it goes back to the middle position by itself. The 3 point arms are down because you asked me to do that, but like I said before with the backhoe attached or without it the lift arms are always in the up position for over 5 years of ownership without issue.

 

[TheOldHokie]

There are no remote valves or add on"s shes bone stock! 3 point lever is in middle position it goes back to the middle position by itself. The 3 point arms are down because you asked me to do that, but like I said before with the backhoe attached or without it the lift arms are always in the up position for over 5 years of ownership without issue.

Bear eith me. I guess I dont understand the 3pt control on the BX23 and I just did some online research. I think Dusty provided some importany info about MMM earlier and I am just now realizing it.

Lever has 3 positions - back. middle , and forward?

Pull back to raise 3pt and push forward to lower?

Let go and it returns to center?

There is also a mower height adjustment knob below the seat?

Dan

 

[GreensvilleJay]

he's got a BX23S, same as me....
curl works fine so NOT a 3PH issue
loader has a joystick with 2 spool valves...1 (curl) works fine, the other 'lift' doesn't
curl works fine so NOT a 3PH issue

You might want to confirm that mechanically, the joystick does MOVE the spool valve both in and out.
If nothing else ,it's elimination of a possible cause.

 

[TheOldHokie]

he's got a BX23S, same as me....
curl works fine so NOT a 3PH issue
loader has a joystick with 2 spool valves...1 (curl) works fine, the other 'lift' doesn't
curl works fine so NOT a 3PH issue

You might want to confirm that mechanically, the joystick does MOVE the spool valve both in and out.
If nothing else ,it's elimination of a possible cause.

Have you not been following?

The oil flow from the loader valve lift circuit back to tank is blocked and is jamming the loader lift cylinders. That circuit goes through the 3pt valve and if it is not in neutral it will block.

Bucket dump and curl goes to tank via a different route which is why it works.

The loader valve and quick connects have all been tested and are working correctly.

Dan

 

[leveraddict]

Bear eith me. I guess I dont understand the 3pt control on the BX23 and I just did some online research. I think Dusty provided some importany info about MMM earlier and I am just now realizing it.

Lever has 3 positions - back. middle , and forward?

Pull back to raise 3pt and push forward to lower?

Let go and it returns to center?

There is also a mower height adjustment knob below the seat?

Dan

CORRECT!

Mower height adj I tried playing with it up down locked in the Top position and still no FEL lift! I even tried lifting while playing with the 3 pt lift lever.....nothing.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

he's got a BX23S, same as me....
curl works fine so NOT a 3PH issue
loader has a joystick with 2 spool valves...1 (curl) works fine, the other 'lift' doesn't
curl works fine so NOT a 3PH issue

You might want to confirm that mechanically, the joystick does MOVE the spool valve both in and out.
If nothing else ,it's elimination of a possible cause.

I'd also check the joystick linkage.

But, the lift spool DOES rely on the power beyond through the 3 pt valve, while the curl spool doesn't. The lift spool is a series circuit type.

 

[TheOldHokie]

CORRECT!

Mower height adj I tried playing with it up down locked in the Top position and still no FEL lift! I even tried lifting while playing with the 3 pt lift lever.....nothing.

All good thoughts and unfortunate it did not fix the issue.

It sure appears something in that section is blocking power beyond route back to tank. I would think youbwould be hearing the relief vslve if that is the case.

I am out of ideas. Time to hit the BX23S WSM for a better understanding of the 3pt circuit.

Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

I'd also check the joystick linkage.

But, the lift spool DOES rely on the power beyond through the 3 pt valve, while the curl spool doesn't. The lift spool is a series circuit type.

We know the lift spool is working. As soon as we disconnect the rod end hose and let it dump into a bucket up she goes.. Its not a joystick linkage problem.

Do you have sny insight into how the 3pt vslve works. Clearly not position control.

Dan

 

[PoTreeBoy]

All good thoughts and unfortunate it did not fix the issue.

It sure appears something in that section is blocking power beyond route back to tank. I would think youbwould be hearing the relief vslve if that is the case.

I am out of ideas. Time to hit the BX23S WSM for a better understanding of the 3pt circuit.

Dan

Is there a way for him to disconnect the PB (hose, hopefully) at the 3ph and put it in the bucket and see if it works?