Should I Buy a MX5800?

Tacoma16

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Dec 12, 2019
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1
Michigan
Want your opinion if the MX5800 is the right tractor for me. I have about 16 acres to mow and plan to use a rotary cutter to do it. I will mow 4 to 5 times a year.

I would like to run a Woods DS8.30 pull type or RCR2596 pull type, both are 8ft cutters. What I am mowing is open field that can grow up to 3 feet tall. Just want to keep it to about a foot tall. My goal is to mow at 3.5 to 4 mph. Can this tractor handle those cutters at that speed?
 

BigG

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l2501, FEL, BB, Rotary cutter, rake,spreader, roller, etc. New Holland TL80 A
Sep 14, 2018
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West Central,FL
I think you will be pleased with the MX 5800 (PTO 50 hp). Is your only intent for the tractor to mow the 16 acres? Once you have this mowed down and are mowing the field regularly it might be more tractor then you need. Rhino mowers make a TS 10, I believe is the number, that is a low hp, 10 foot batwing which might help if speed is what you are after.

I mow with a Rhino TW 96 on a New Holland TL 80 A ( PTO 69 hp).
 

Roadworthy

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Aug 17, 2019
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If the tractor's only job is mowing the sixteen acres it's probably overkill. I use an L2501 and a five foot rotary mower on ten acres. I don't know my mowing speed - probably about four mph - and it takes about an hour per acre.
 

Garrik

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MX6000
Aug 7, 2019
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San Jose, CA
Keep in mind that this machine has been replaced by the MX6000 - so the only way to find a 5800 is used or an old production unit still on a dealer's lot somewhere.
 

Tacoma16

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Dec 12, 2019
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There are a few new mx5800’s near me. Might wait for the mx6000. Depends on what the price difference would be. Besides mowing I will be doing some snow blowing but that’s about it.
 

SidecarFlip

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There are a few new mx5800’s near me. Might wait for the mx6000. Depends on what the price difference would be. Besides mowing I will be doing some snow blowing but that’s about it.
Tecumseh? That is 5 miles from me. I'm in Deerfield. I bet you are looking at Redline in Adrian correct? I don't do business with them, used to before they bought the franchise from Dan (Dan's Farm Equipment) but since he sold out, I've switched to Carleton Farm Supply in Carleton, Michigan. Great dealer, great service, good prices. Bought my last 3 M's there.
 

Tacoma16

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I looked at redline and got a quote, but they wouldn’t budge much on price. Thanks for the recommendation, I will definitely look at the Carleton dealer. The dealer I am looking at is Kings Kubota out of Coldwater and Jackson.
 

SidecarFlip

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I looked at redline and got a quote, but they wouldn’t budge much on price. Thanks for the recommendation, I will definitely look at the Carleton dealer. The dealer I am looking at is Kings Kubota out of Coldwater and Jackson.
Owning Kubota's for 34 years now, I know them too. Give Keith at Carelton a call 734 - 654-8222 Keith is the owner and a real straight shooter, Buy all my Kubota equipment there. Tell him Daryl told you to call and see what he has. He as a boatload of Kubota's on the lot and out back. Lots of nice low hour used ones too and he delivers, for free.

Actually, we are pretty good friends. Never been steered wrong there.

Don't care for Redline at all. Too supermarket like. Reminds me of Bader Deere in Tecumseh (deal with them too, I have green stuff as well) I preferred Fred Ott in Birkey but they got bought out by Findlay Equipment.
I like simple, no frills dealers and Keith is simple and no frills.

He sells a lot of Kubota's. Probably has what you want.

When Dan Hupp owned (Redline) is was a good, friendly dealer. When Dan and his wife sold out, things changed and not for the better either. When Hoyt Whelan owned the Deere dealership in Tecumseh, same deal, friendly place. When Bader bought them, things changed as well and not for the better.
 

BigG

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l2501, FEL, BB, Rotary cutter, rake,spreader, roller, etc. New Holland TL80 A
Sep 14, 2018
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West Central,FL
I am wondering as we give advice about the MX5800 and its suitability for this task of mowing , what about the cost? Roadworthy brings up a good point. If speed is not the main concern a gear drive L2501 would be a great tractor to mow with at a minimum cost. The tractor would run new at $13 to $14 with out a loader.( 2.28 acres at 4 mph 7.3 hours) A new MX5800 on Tractorhouse at $30-35 but that is HST with a FEL. (3.49 acres calculated at 96" at 4 mph 4.6 hours)

To me that is a lot of money difference. In addition the cost of the mowers could be added to the mix. RCR2596 approximately $5000 an RCR1260 around $1500.

Or is there something in between the two that would be better.
 

eserv

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BX24, A1000 Kubota Generator
May 27, 2009
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I am wondering as we give advice about the MX5800 and its suitability for this task of mowing , what about the cost? Roadworthy brings up a good point. If speed is not the main concern a gear drive L2501 would be a great tractor to mow with at a minimum cost. The tractor would run new at $13 to $14 with out a loader.( 2.28 acres at 4 mph 7.3 hours) A new MX5800 on Tractorhouse at $30-35 but that is HST with a FEL. (3.49 acres calculated at 96" at 4 mph 4.6 hours)

To me that is a lot of money difference. In addition the cost of the mowers could be added to the mix. RCR2596 approximately $5000 an RCR1260 around $1500.

Or is there something in between the two that would be better.
If you can manage with a tractor under 28hp it will be much simpler and much cheaper to maintain in the long run because it won't have the complication of all the DPF and other emission control devices the higher HP tractors have
 

KennysNewFarm

Member

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MX5800
Dec 28, 2017
220
13
18
Missouri
If you can manage with a tractor under 28hp it will be much simpler and much cheaper to maintain in the long run because it won't have the complication of all the DPF and other emission control devices the higher HP tractors have
It seems like people are too afraid to buy big HP based on your DPF comment. I have had 3 flawless regens and it did not affect my work at all. When I start the tractor in the shop I do not have black smoke and it rarely smells like diesel fumes. It has a 7 year warranty and if you find a good dealer why worry so much. I would really like to buy a 10 foot bat wing for my MX5800 in the near future. Here is a thread I started awhile ago talking about brush hogs. May help the OP make a decision on tractor, implements, etc.

https://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43584
 
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BigG

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l2501, FEL, BB, Rotary cutter, rake,spreader, roller, etc. New Holland TL80 A
Sep 14, 2018
1,951
770
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West Central,FL
If you can manage with a tractor under 28hp it will be much simpler and much cheaper to maintain in the long run because it won't have the complication of all the DPF and other emission control devices the higher HP tractors have
That is what I was trying to bring up. There are people that are making a living with the tractor and that will justify the bigger more expensive tractor. And I wonder if the dealer recommends something for the profit margin or is it what he has in stock.
 

eserv

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BX24, A1000 Kubota Generator
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It seems like people are too afraid to buy big HP based on your DPF comment. I have had 3 flawless regens and it didn’t affect my work at all. When I start the tractor in the shop I don’t have black smoke and it rarely smells like diesel fumes. It has a 7 year warranty and if you find a good dealer why worry so much.
Because I work on the darn things and I know that sooner or later your tractor is going to cost you a LOT of money!
 

SidecarFlip

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Was up at Carelton on Monday and Keith has a few used but well maintained units on the lot. Pre Tier 4, which are getting hard to get.

Said before, I don't want one and I've done good with my M's with minimal repairs. heck, my open station M has just under 4000 hours on it and my cab M has 2000 on it. Other than routine maintenance, oil and fluid changes and greasing, both have been mostly trouble free and I fully expect them to outlast me.

Keith told me that anytime I want to sell either one, he'd be interested in buying them but he knows they are not for sale.

To me, the words 'Emission Compliant' equate to big bucks at some point and that isn't just Kubota either. They all have issues relayed to emissions hardware. My hew Holland dealer sells Kioti and NH tractors (get my hay tools from them) and both Kioti and NH are having emissions issues.

Same applies to my Kubota dealer. I go out in the shop and everytime I'm there, there is an emissions unit being worked on.

Not my thing.
 
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eserv

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BX24, A1000 Kubota Generator
May 27, 2009
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Hardisty, Alberta
Well let’s hope not. I service mine and keep everything up to date.
The expected life of a DPF muffler is 3000 hours, your exact time might vary. DPF's are expensive and the labor to re and re them is high.even with the best of maintenance that expense will be unavoidable.
 

KennysNewFarm

Member

Equipment
MX5800
Dec 28, 2017
220
13
18
Missouri
The expected life of a DPF muffler is 3000 hours, your exact time might vary. DPF's are expensive and the labor to re and re them is high.even with the best of maintenance that expense will be unavoidable.
Is there a way to eliminate them?
 

SidecarFlip

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The expected life of a DPF muffler is 3000 hours, your exact time might vary. DPF's are expensive and the labor to re and re them is high.even with the best of maintenance that expense will be unavoidable.
Exactly. The DPF has a finite life, I think (if I'm not mistaken) that it's reported to be viable for 2500 regens and then it's done), so no matter what or how you maintain your tractor, at some point you will be faced with an expensive repair. The other issue is of course regen frequency. Not being a Kubota tech. I don't have any idea how the emissions components determine the DPF lifetime, if it's by count of regens by the ECM electronically or by sensing the restriction of flow of exhaust gas through the DPF, but be assured, at some point, the engine will derate and the cannister will need replaced.

Being retired from the Class 8 heavy truck arena and having worked at a Western Star dealership for 28 years, I've seen first hand how that replacement plays out because just like the Kubota (and other emissions compliant Tier 4 final engines (Deere or Kioti or whatever because they all use the same basic emissions components to achieve the emissions requirements), the byproduct, the burned ash in the cannister is considered a hazardous substance and must be disposed of in a specific manner, not tossed in a garbage can and secondly, the cannisters themselves must pass a rigorous inspection to even be cleaned and at the dealership where I worked, less than 5% passed. 95% were destroyed and replaced with new and they aren't cheap.

I think Kubota is banking on the fact that most original owners won't put nearly those service hours on their machines, at least not the original owner but some owner will and some owner will be on the hook for a DPF cannister replacement. That is a given.

You can take the best care of your unit but the bottom line is at the point of derate, you will be replacing the cannister and most likely other components in the emissions system as well, if, it makes it DPF cannister capacity that is, because the failure rate of the associated components is pretty high as well.

How it works and consider yourself fortunate you don't have a higher powered unit that has not only a DPF cannister but DEF injection as well. DEF dosing issues are another can of worms.

All about clean air and the enviroment as you as the end user gets to pay for it.

Why I'm perfectly happy with my Pre Tier 4 Kubota's. I can with some black (particulate) smoke and I like that smell of combusted diesel fuel.

...and why Pre Tier 4 tractors are highly valued. No issues other than routine ones.

The engines are a time bomb that get closer to a huge repair bill with every regeneratioin.

Being the industrious people we are, most everyone wants to do a 'delete'. Problem is, you cannot just unplug the sensors and negate the emissions hardware. The emissions systems are all married to each other so if you 'delete' one aspect, the engine's ECM will go into derate. How it's designed.

I maintain that of Rudolph Diesel were alive today, he'd be shocked at what emissions engineers have done to his efficient and reliable engine.:)
 

eserv

Well-known member

Equipment
BX24, A1000 Kubota Generator
May 27, 2009
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Hardisty, Alberta
Exactly. The DPF has a finite life, I think (if I'm not mistaken) that it's reported to be viable for 2500 regens and then it's done), so no matter what or how you maintain your tractor, at some point you will be faced with an expensive repair. The other issue is of course regen frequency. Not being a Kubota tech. I don't have any idea how the emissions components determine the DPF lifetime, if it's by count of regens by the ECM electronically or by sensing the restriction of flow of exhaust gas through the DPF, but be assured, at some point, the engine will derate and the cannister will need replaced.

Being retired from the Class 8 heavy truck arena and having worked at a Western Star dealership for 28 years, I've seen first hand how that replacement plays out because just like the Kubota (and other emissions compliant Tier 4 final engines (Deere or Kioti or whatever because they all use the same basic emissions components to achieve the emissions requirements), the byproduct, the burned ash in the cannister is considered a hazardous substance and must be disposed of in a specific manner, not tossed in a garbage can and secondly, the cannisters themselves must pass a rigorous inspection to even be cleaned and at the dealership where I worked, less than 5% passed. 95% were destroyed and replaced with new and they aren't cheap.

I think Kubota is banking on the fact that most original owners won't put nearly those service hours on their machines, at least not the original owner but some owner will and some owner will be on the hook for a DPF cannister replacement. That is a given.

You can take the best care of your unit but the bottom line is at the point of derate, you will be replacing the cannister and most likely other components in the emissions system as well, if, it makes it DPF cannister capacity that is, because the failure rate of the associated components is pretty high as well.

How it works and consider yourself fortunate you don't have a higher powered unit that has not only a DPF cannister but DEF injection as well. DEF dosing issues are another can of worms.

All about clean air and the enviroment as you as the end user gets to pay for it.

Why I'm perfectly happy with my Pre Tier 4 Kubota's. I can with some black (particulate) smoke and I like that smell of combusted diesel fuel.

...and why Pre Tier 4 tractors are highly valued. No issues other than routine ones.

The engines are a time bomb that get closer to a huge repair bill with every regeneratioin.

Being the industrious people we are, most everyone wants to do a 'delete'. Problem is, you cannot just unplug the sensors and negate the emissions hardware. The emissions systems are all married to each other so if you 'delete' one aspect, the engine's ECM will go into derate. How it's designed.

I maintain that of Rudolph Diesel were alive today, he'd be shocked at what emissions engineers have done to his efficient and reliable engine.:)
Every regen leaves behind a small amount of ash which builds up in the DPF eventually plugging it. The larger ones can be cleaned but that requires disassembly and then cleaning at a approved facility. I'm not saying to never buy a DPF equipped tractor but if a smaller machine without a dpf will do the job for you why put yourself through the added expense?
 

SidecarFlip

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Is there a way to eliminate them?
Not cheaply, if at all. Manufacturers have visited that issue and made it so 'deletion', if at all possible, is a very expensive undertaking.

In the Class 6-8 market there are deletion components available and they are used but again, they are expensive and of you get caught, the fines are huge.

How do you get caught? Pretty easy really. All the DOT has to do is measure the opacity of the exhaust stream as the engine is throttled up and down. Once they determine that the opacity isn't within parameters, then the fun (expense) begins.

Not so much with tractors (getting caught) but because of the 'married' parameters of the systems, it's sill hard and expensive to do a delete and of course illegal. If you have a deleted engine (and can afford it), don't plan on ever selling it through a dealer or trading it in because any dealer who don't do an inspection of the components and makes sure they are in working order, assumes all liability. Not gonna happen.

It's my contention that at some point in the future, diesel engines like gasoline engines will overcome the issues as technology advances, but for now, it is what it is.

I'm sure Kubota regrets their 'reformer' equipped engines. I don't see those engines ever being reliable no matter what 'fixes' Kubota applies.

Caterpillar went the same route with their venerable 3406 series by adding a 'reformer', in simple terms a furnace where diesel fuel was ignited by a sparkplug of all things and the superheated and combusted diesel fuel was introduced into the exhaust stream to 'burn' the created soot off and eliminate opacity. Didn't work as planned and why Cat got out of the on road market years back. Back in the day, a 'Cat' was the engine of choice for high power applications. Today, you cannot get one new. Only ones in existence are pre Tier 4 engines and they are very pricey plus you cannot put one in anew chassis. Has to be what is termed a 'glider kit' and the government is cracking down on that too.

Bottom line is, with the financing, you can do anything. Issue is, is it worth it?