Selecting a box blade for a subcompact

[ejb11235]

I have a BX23S and am starting the process of finding a box blade for it. Yesterday I spent a considerable amount of time (as in, up until 4AM) researching the design & specs on a bunch of different makes and models and compiling the results. My process is to learn as much as I can so when I finally make the purchase decision, I'll know what I bought, why I bought it, and what compromises I made.

I've identified what I think are some key design/construction differences. I'm curious if anybody has thoughts about these, or some aspect I have missed.

I live in the Pacific Northwest, so that seems to put me at a disadvantage, since most manufacturers seem to be on the east side of the country. Although I have some local options, there are a couple of units I'm interested that would have to be shipped, and I haven't yet investigated the shipping costs.

But first, I'm trying to identify the characteristics that will allow me to build my short list of candidates.

Overall weight & weight per foot
Of all the items listed here, this is the one where my lack of experience really limits my analysis. The overall weight affects the tractor's ability to lift it. It also affects the tractor's ability to drag it when the box is full of material. The BX23S specs indicate a 24" behind pin capacity of 680 pounds. While this is a couple of hundred pounds above the heaviest box I'm looking at, I don't want to have to run the engine wide open in order to lift the box. I assume that weight per foot affects the box's ability to keep the scarifiers in the ground. The guy from Everything Attachments says it this way: "This is weighing about 65 pounds per foot. And on a BX tractor, that's all it needs. You've got a 600, 700 pound lift. You've got a 260 pound box blade. That still gives you 400, 500 pounds to work with, and you've going to have that much dirt in here when you're done."

Width & Volume
A 5' box seems like it would get jobs done faster than a 4' provided the tractor can pull it. Plus, it seems like it would be good to have a box that's wider than the tractor's wheels for working on driveways. But I am aware that the overall volume is potentially a limiting factor if the box can carry so much material that the tractor can't pull it.

Stoutness of construction

• Side panel thicknesses range from .179" to 1/4 to 5/16 to 3/8.
• mast design & attachment: A-frame vs plate (not sure what the term is). I'm not really concerned about this, but there are some boxes where the mast only connects to the shank bar. This seems like a weak design. Most boxes also have connections to or near the back of the box
• clevis vs pin: a clevis design seems like it would provide better longevity by eliminating a flex point. The pin design seems like a real weak point for an implement that is dragging dirt
• type of steel: this seems like something to be aware of but not something that will drive my decision

Curved/formed moldboard
Several manufacturers touted their curved or formed moldboard and claim that it helps material stay moving in the box and reduces friction, which would be a good thing for a smaller tractor. I have no experience so I have no way to evaluate this claim.

Shanks

• # of shanks: More seems better but again, I have no experience so I can't evaluate the importance of this. There are some 4' wide boxes with only 3 shanks, and there are some 5' boxes with 4 shanks (instead of 5).
• Pin vs clip: I am almost deadset against buying a box that uses clips, but I know that the clips can be replaced with rods.
• Country of origin: some manufacturers tout that their shanks are not sourced from China
• Replaceable tips: shanks don't seem all that expensive so I'm not sure it matters that much

3pt hitch

• Category: Some of the boxes have a Cat 1 pin on a Cat 0 spacing. I don't think I like that.
• Mast height (upper linch pin): I don't know if this varies and if it's an issue
• Quick hitch compatibility: This seems like a good thing to have just because it gives me options in the future

 

[ejb11235]

By the way, here is a screen shot of the data I've gathered:

 

[jkrubi12]

You certainly have 'burnt the midnite oil' with that spec chart, impressive. Well organized!

I'm a new tractor owner, having recently acquired a B2601. I got a 54" Land Pride BB1254 box blade as part of the package. I knew I'd have some work for the BB, but along with the FEL it's getting more use than I imagined.

I find that it's easy to get so much material in the box that I can bog the tractor to a stop. I have tried to master the 3-pt hitch control to keep the tractor moving while maintaining lots of material in the box; not having much luck as it seems to create 'piles' that I must go over again to smooth out. But I am moving quite a bit of material and accomplishing my desired task (smoothing out & reshaping my rear lawn). BTW, I've seen loads of vids where users have 60" BB's on their B2601; I chose the 54" (as did my sales advisor) for the B2601, I'm very happy with it.

As far as other specs go, my BB serves as part of my rear ballast (300+ lbs) and I can say that it works well in that capacity also. The LP box that I have may not be the most HD BB available but it is well matched to the tractor which I'm happy about. It seems super well made, well designed and nicely finished. I'm considering creating some sort of wooden 'carryall' that I can fit onto the BB for hand tools & such.

For your use, I would advise looking at the compatibility w/your tractor first. Size, weight, design and perhaps even quick-hitch compatibility (maybe even price & availability) would be my primary considerations. It seems that all of the available brands/models are pretty solidly built so wearing one out is gonna take a long time!

My LP has four 'ripper' tines that are held in place with the 'clips'. Those clips, while seemingly a cheap cost saving design, work fine IMO. I've seen vids where owners have replaced them with custom-made 'rods' or pins, a nice upgrade. I find that I'm not really adjusting the tines very often at all; I could change all 4 in a minute or two with a pair of pliers easily if necessary. I'm more concerned with losing a clip than anything else.

In sum, I'm finding that I am using my BB much more than I thought I would. While it's not the biggest or heaviest, it's well-matched to the tractor (very important I'm finding). I'm a very new BB user, and I'm finding that with practice I'm getting better with it every day! My B2601 has an adjustment for the 3-pt that controls how quick the hitch reacts to the control input; I've adjusted mine to try to give me the quickest response so that my BB experience and performance is maximized.

I have watched (and will continue to watch) many vids on using a BB effectively, really grateful to the many 'tuber's that produce such excellent content!

 

[GreensvilleJay]

the one 'characteristic' that you didn't post.....

AVAILABILITY !

Perhaps THE most important one.

Depending on material in the box, 5' may be too much for the 23S. I know a B2601/LP54" BB will NOT move 35 year old 'crusher run' material.

Also, consider buying the 'dual rear remote' kit cause if you need a box blade, odds are good 'top and tilt' will be next on your list

 

[SteveBX23]

I use a 1260 perfectly fine…

 

[ctfjr]

. . .
Also, consider buying the 'dual rear remote' kit cause if you need a box blade, odds are good 'top and tilt' will be next on your list

This ^^^

I found it so much more efficient to use the box blade with a top n tilt.

 

[OrangeKrush]

I've got a Rural King 60" that I got a great deal on, my 2680 pulls it pretty effortlessly in cleaning up my drive. It's heavy and very well constructed.. can't see them made much better!

 

[ejb11235]

Thanks for all the replies so far. The choice between a 4' 4.5' and 5' seems to be the most crucial decision of all. My biggest fear is getting a box that's too big that I have to abuse my tractor to use or spend so much time fine-tuning the operation.

The BX23S has the mid-sized engine of the BX series, so I have to be careful about interpreting peoples' experiences using a 2680 to run a 5'. The sales guy at my local Kubota dealership advised getting a 4' box and due to having the box load up with so much materials that the tractor can't pull it.

A big part of this is learning what the limitations and capabilities of my BX23S are, and being realistic about what I'll be able to do. If I can run a smaller box blade smoothly and efficiently, then I'll get my projects done a lot faster than if I'm struggling with a larger box. On the other hand, I don't want to simply assume that I should get a 4' box. There are people like @SteveBX23 using a 5' with the BX23S.

Oh, what a process! But I enjoy immersing myself into things and learning as much as I can. Oddly enough, I hardly researched the tractor itself! I didn't want to deal with it ... I just said "I need a tractor with a backhoe, Kubotas have a good reputation, I'll buy orange." It definitely simplified things.

@GreensvilleJay: I am definitely thinking about availability ... that's the other spreadsheet, that I didn't post.

@GreensvilleJay: thanks for the heads-up on the rear remotes and top-n-tilts. You might have seen my postings about rear remotes on the BX23S, but now I have a concrete idea of why I would want them.

@jkrubi12 Thanks for the detailed reply and talking about the learning curve and operational difficulties. I've been disinclined to get the LandPride because of those clips, but you're right, that's a problem that can be fixed with rods.

 

[B737]

I think 5' box blade on a BX is a little optimistic.

I ran a 5' box blade on a B2601 and it didn't take much to stop that tractor in its tracks, that was with a light Land Pride BB1260. On the BX I used a 1248 and the machine had loaded rears. ymmv

the BX dual rear remote kit is the best deal in town, they are like $350 when i last ordered the kit a few years ago.

 

[RalphVa]

I've used the 5 ft Woods BB once on the B2601 tilted a bit to cut away some silt on an old road cut into the side of a hill. Worked great. Only thing that stopped it was an occasional big tree root. Little ones were just ripped out. Just had to raise the 3ph a tad each time.

Bought it to even out some bottom land after a guy comes in with a forest mulcher, etc. to clear some trees and stumps. Hasn't happened yet.

Rear remotes for Tnt were gonna take 4-6 weeks at the dealer, and Rite Fit had a 34 week backlog for the cylinders. So, I bought the tractor without them.

 

[ejb11235]

I think 5' box blade on a BX is a little optimistic.

I ran a 5' box blade on a B2601 and it didn't take much to stop that tractor in its tracks, that was with a light Land Pride BB1260. On the BX I used a 1248 and the machine had loaded rears. ymmv

the BX dual rear remote kit is the best deal in town, they are like $350 when i last ordered the kit a few years ago.

Thanks! I'm coming to the conclusion that a 4' is the way to go. I need to maximize the probability of success, and nothing will be more depressing than to go through this entire careful process and then end up with a unit I can't use. Your comment also makes me pay heed to the warning about overall weight, and aim for the sub-300 pound range. Oh wow, a quick look at my fancy spreadsheet shows me that all of the 4' boxes are under 300 pounds.

The BX rear remote kit is definitely interesting, but I need to work out the details on how it would be installed on the BX23S. The placement of the controls is perfect, of course. Someone else suggested rolling my own by plumbing off the backhoe connectors, but that leaves me with the problem of where to place the controls. It's unlikely I'll be doing any hydraulic work at the back-end in 2022.

Thank you again for your advice

 

[jyoutz]

Read the implement match sizing on the Kubota website.

 

[OrangeKrush]

If I had my choice when buying mine...used, I would have gone with a 48".
I said mine pulled it easily in my driveway to clean it up but I have not used it in dirt yet. different story!
It would be nice to have 4-5 scarifers on a 48".

 

[ejb11235]

Read the implement match sizing on the Kubota website.

You are gold. I didn't even know that existed.

BX Series: https://www.kubotausa.com/docs/default-source/lp-pdfs/01-bx-series-lp-implements.pdf
B Series: https://www.kubotausa.com/docs/default-source/lp-pdfs/02-b-series-lp-implements.pdf

Here's a screen shot on the box blades section. This is money. Very surprising that they go up to a 66" box width ... but I'm not going to ignore what people have said here. But that they go up to a weight of 370 is extremely interesting.

The below identified implements are either manufactured by Kubota or have received an Engineering Release approving use by Kubota, and thus meet the performance matching requirements for the specified power machines for normally anticipated operating conditions. The specifications below are intended for general application; unusual soil, terrain, or severe operating conditions may not allow for the use of a specific implement under those operating conditions. The use of implements which are neither manufactured or approved by Kubota for use with the specified power machines and which do not meet the below specifications may result in malfunctions or damage to the power machine, damage to other property and/or injury to the operator or to others. Any such malfunctions or damages are not covered by the Kubota express limited warranty. The power machine, implement, and operating conditions need to be evaluated and monitored by the operator to be sure that the conditions are within a safe operating envelope for general use.

 

[ejb11235]

One thing that occurs to me is that there are three use cases that we should probably be clarifying:

1) tuning up an existing driveway
2) spreading fresh gravel
3) leveling & preparing raw dirt, including roots

It seems to me that these challenge the tractor differently, especially #3, because it seems so radically different based on geography and vegetation.

 

[jkrubi12]

Ultimately it will depend how effectively your machine can put the power to the ground, cuz a BB of just about any size will be capable of digging in & overwhelming the tractor. Additionally, the material you are working has a big part in the result of the work, as stated previously.

I'd like to hear from LP BB users on how the scarifier 'clips' are holding up. I don't anticipate them failing but I have considered the possibility of losing one. I've only used the middle scarifier setting on my BB, which sets the tooth about 1" lower than the forward blade.

 

[Vigo]

I love all the thought that is going into this. I am technically new to tractors (<2yrs) but as an automotive Master Tech i have to know how everything works to be able to diagnose and fix it, so I didn't just buy a tractor.. I looked at damn near everything that was out there, tried to reverse engineer how every thing worked, bought a tractor, and then proceeded to test every bit of 'conventional wisdom' I could to find the holes and what people are missing. It's been a fun journey so far!

Anyway, my box blade experience is very relevant here because I pull a 60" box blade with a B6100, which is smaller and lighter than most of the BX series and has only a 500lb 3pt lift capacity.

Width: With 4wd, FEL adding its weight to the front tires, rear diff lock, and a gear transmission that can spin all 4 tires without stalling the engine or going into pressure relief, I can pull a 60" box blade with this tiny tractor. However, it DOES require constant attention and can be finicky. As you alluded to, a smaller box blade would require less operator interaction or a lower level of it to function and therefore could be more or less fun depending on whether you enjoy being challenged as an operator, or are just trying to get something done. I personally would be loathe to go all the way down to 48". I think 54 would be a sweet spot.

Weight: I can see two main uses for weight of the box blade. The obvious one is ripper penetration. The less obvious one is how far you have to roll at the beginning of a 'pass' for the rear blade or rippers to 'feed' into the ground and begin to cut. I have not looked up the spec but i believe my 60" blade is in the 300-350 lb range. I had no problem with its function at that weight, however.. I added a 113lb 54" loading dock bumper to the back (the thing made out of old tires that semis bump their trailers into at loading docks) so it is now in the 400-450lb range. It DOES function better on both the points above. However, it's brought me perilously close to my 3pt lift capacity. Before I added the weight, there would occasionally be times I couldn't lift a full box blade to dump it because enough material was 'stuck' to the box that it was way over my capacity, in which case i'd have to back up while lifting on the 3pt to release the material and be able to raise the box. After adding the weight, I'm hitting that point a lot more often. Since I modify everything i plan to increase the 3pt capacity instead of removing the weight, but that may be a path you have no intention of going down, in which case I would err towards <350lb blades to give you more 'headroom'. You can always add weight to it later, like i did. I do feel like a curved 'moldboard' rear wall of the box could be useful here because the churning of the material against the back wall would discourage as much material adhering to the box as you try to lift it.

Side wall thickness: I don't think it matters a lick unless you plan to use the thing on rock/gravel for a LONG time, in which case you can wear away the bottom front of the side walls in a number of years, in which case thicker would be better. But I personally don't see it as an issue. Plus, you can make 'skids' for the side walls out of some lightly modified pieces of angle iron, and if you wanted to bolt them to the side walls i'd rather be drilling through 3/16 side walls than 1/2 side walls.

Number of Shanks: I feel that 5 is better than 4. I only feel this way because with 5 you have the option to run ONLY the center shank lowered and use it as a rock/root ripper, or a tiny trencher, and have more intuitive 'placement' of it and load the 3pt evenly when trying to pull up and pry a rock out or rip a root. If you are running all the rippers down, then with a BX or something tiny less rippers would be better in the sense that you can run less rippers deeper, where you would have to run more rippers more shallowly before running into traction/pulling limits of the small tractor. So i would say 5 is good, 3 is probably just as good as 5 if not better for such a tiny tractor, and 4 is fine but minorly complicates the fringe use case of using only one ripper as a '3pt prybar in the dirt'.

Clevis vs Pin: I see it as a non-issue when pulled by the size of tractor we're talking about. I have stalled my tractor (movement, not engine) with my box blade many many times. Sometimes many times in the space of 20 feet. I have never distorted those mounting points. I don't think my tractor can pull hard enough to do it. PLUS, here's the kicker... I had one of my rockshaft arms fail (due to a loose bolt backing out, nothing to do with box blade weight etc) while travelling FULL SPEED (9-11mph for me) and drop one side of the box blade in the dirt like dropping anchor in the dirt. That was a hell of a test of the box blade construction, and my pin mounts STILL weren't damaged in any way. I think it's a non-issue on a tiny tractor.

3pt frame attaching to rear wall: I agree that it's preferable to have the 3pt frame not JUST attach to the ripper bar and also attach to the rear wall, but i also suspect it is a non-issue on this small of a tractor. One tertiary issue of whether the 3pt mount extends all the way to the rear wall is it might make it easier or harder to build YOUR OWN stuff in that area. IF you wanted to build some kind of weight rack, tool carrier/box, etc in that space, it may be simpler if it was wide open, or it may be preferable to already have some structure there you could attach to. So that minor factor just depends on whether you think you'd modify the box blade down the line.

I don't care about country of origin. I'd rather buy from China than feel like I am being priced out of a middle-class lifestyle, and that feels like a constant threat lately.

Lastly.. GET A POWER TOP LINK!! It takes a box blade from a bit of a hassle, to a very fun mental challenge. Rather than run another hydraulic circuit I installed an electro-hydraulic actuator as a top link (hydraulic cylinder with onboard electric pump) but that's an issue for another thread. But, GET A POWER TOP LINK.

 

[BetterThanAShovel]

I didn't see Bobcat brand on your list, and I'll throw it out there for consideration. I have a thread I made recently about the quest to purchase a boxblade for my B2650, and the winning element of the Bobcat was that they were available.

Bobcat box blade? Or Titan or Southern?

Bobcat is owned by Dooson in South Korea. Daedong in South Korea builds Bobcats for Dooson and they are also known for making good products such as Kioti tractors here in the US. South Korean manufacturers have a good reputation for quality and I would expect them to subcontract implements to...

www.orangetractortalks.com

I finally used it for the first time this last weekend, and I am OVERALL pretty pleased with it. I hope to update that thread today with the details. But it has a lot of the quality items you are looking for with it (clevis, scarifier numbers, no clips).

 

[TheShadyKubota]

@ejb11235 I too was in the same boat as you, flipping across all the different brands and wondering what I needed (staying up all night and researching during the day at work). Then Princess Auto (Like a Harbour Freight in the States) had a 60" Box Blade, last one left and I snagged it for cheap. I was worried that my BX2380 wouldn't be enough but when you but it in low gear, 4x4, and shanks down, I've been very surprised. Sure a 48" would probably be a little better however I have zero complaints on the 60" and I've done my 2" down gravel driveway and graded my clay property with zero hesitation. I think the unit is ~400lbs and very well built (for the price). Is it a Land Pride or EA.. probably not but I could probably have this thing for 10 years before I'll need to ever replace it.

I may have pulled the trigger a little quick because I could barely use my loader without any counterbalance, however I'm not disappointed. It may not say LandPride or Kubota on the side, but at least it doesn't say Frontier and painted green. lol

 

[Henro]

I think part of the reason for a great range of opinions related to what size box blade works with what size tractor, is partly due to many users not having top and tilt capability, so they set the box blade at one angle and keep it there most of the time. Just my impression, but who wants to be jumping off the tractor repeatedly, to adjust the top link to change the aggressiveness of the cut?

With T&T it is Sooooooo easy to become aggressive, that one can see how a wider box blade could be an issue on a smaller tractor. BUT if one is not being that aggressive, it is really a non issue for the most part, I suspect.

Having T&T on my B2910, I really have no need or desire to use the 60" box blade on my BX. AND because I can reach the limits of the 60" Box on my B2910, I just assume that it would not work well on my BX.

I have come to realize after following this thread, that a wider box blade when worked lightly, probably DOES become a reasonable solution for many people...

Do get T&T though if you can swing it. Makes implement use much more fun.