resurfacing flywheel mm reference values

[North Idaho Wolfman]

OH MY, I'm thinking your going to need a real long vacation when this is all over!

 

[Apogee]

I'd recommend bolting the old clutch assembly up to the flywheel and reassembling as a test. If it works fine, then you will know the flywheel is machined correctly. If your old clutch is too far gone, just use a new disk with the rest of the old parts to get an idea. Yeah, it's a hassle, but at least it will eliminate the flywheel variable.

If it works correctly, then you need to start measuring every piece of the new assembly vs the old. SOMETHING is different...

Also, brake parts cleaner is your friend when assembling the final clutch assembly.

Good luck and please keep us posted.

Steve

 

[BAP]

Unfortunately, a bigger hammer isn't always the best move. I agree with trying the old parts if there is another left to make it work. Comparing one by one with the individual pieces is probably how you are going to eliminate the wrong pieces.

 

[olthumpa]

I've got my fingers crossed and I told the pups to cross paws too for you!

QUICK!!! tell those pups to cross their paws in the other direction, the last clutch assembly was the worst yet.

How old are ya? Grandbabies and all........
Sound feisty for an old man.

53 but my body feels allot older than that.
"Grandbabies and all........" Yup, One is 4 years and 2 mths the other 11 mths. We have one son and a daughter in-law and I could not be more proud of any of them.

OH MY, I'm thinking your going to need a real long vacation when this is all over!

I don't mind turning wrenches, I just like to some progress for my labor.
When the tractor is back up and running, there is a 21 year old bottle of Scotch sitting on a shelf that is going to have a mean hurt put on it and the next morning probably me too.

I'd recommend bolting the old clutch assembly up to the flywheel and reassembling as a test. If it works fine, then you will know the flywheel is machined correctly. If your old clutch is too far gone, just use a new disk with the rest of the old parts to get an idea. Yeah, it's a hassle, but at least it will eliminate the flywheel variable.

If it works correctly, then you need to start measuring every piece of the new assembly vs the old. SOMETHING is different...

Also, brake parts cleaner is your friend when assembling the final clutch assembly.

Good luck and please keep us posted.

Steve

I have gone through 6 cans of break parts cleaner so far and have two and a half left. (this whole project started when I tore up the rear differential, that part of the project is complete now but untested) I figured while I had the whole back of the tractor apart I might as well go a little further and check the clutch. It was starting to slip in first gear and the linkage was all adjusted. Good thing I checked because it was time for a new one.

I already put the old one back in and both stages disengage.
I have the factory specs for the flywheel and it is machined to exactly,(no + or - tolerances), what it should be.
I agree that "SOMETHING is different..." The three clutch assemblies that I have tried have all been manufactured by A&I and all three were different in some way or another from the others. Apparently the QA from A&I on the clutch assembles is horrable.

Unfortunately, a bigger hammer isn't always the best move. I agree with trying the old parts if there is another left to make it work. Comparing one by one with the individual pieces is probably how you are going to eliminate the wrong pieces.

I learned long ago that letting your temper get the better of you only costs you in the long term it's best just to put things down and try another day. I just wiped the ratchets sockets and torque wrenches down, shut the lights off and went into the house, but I did feel like doing a little redecorating it.

Thanks everyone for your input and help.

Oh, and a bribe of an extra scoop of kibbles for the pups wouldn't hurt.

 

[Apogee]

How much is the difference between ordering it from Kubota vs the aftermarket parts? I'm sure it cost double knowing Kubota, but after this much hassle, it might actually be worth the extra $$$.

Were all of the old clutch parts bad or just the disks? Would it be possible to just use the new disks with the old pressure plates? Or maybe, take the old pressure plates in and have them rebuilt? That way, at least you'd know that the house was machined correctly.

Food for thought...

Steve

 

[olthumpa]

How much is the difference between ordering it from Kubota vs the aftermarket parts? I'm sure it cost double knowing Kubota, but after this much hassle, it might actually be worth the extra $$$.

Were all of the old clutch parts bad or just the disks? Would it be possible to just use the new disks with the old pressure plates? Or maybe, take the old pressure plates in and have them rebuilt? That way, at least you'd know that the house was machined correctly.

Food for thought...

Steve

Two Kubota dealers told me they could not get a clutch assembly that would fit and I could not find an OEM clutch on the internet. If I could get an OEM clutch assembly, the price would be about 3 to 4 times more $$.
Rebuilding it was my first choice but I found out that it is out of the question. Essential parts that need to be replaced are unavailable. There are visible stress cracks in the first and second stage pressure plates. I would assume the spring discs have been weakened from use and should be replaced. The wholes in the lifting arms, second stage clutch cover and the arms that the throw out bearing compress all are egg shaped from wear.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Apogee]

Bummer! Of course the easy solutions would be too simple...

It might be worth calling a couple of dealers in Canada. They have access to different parts from Kubota than the US dealers. Not sure exactly why, but I've heard of them being able to source parts from Kubota that dealers in the States could not.

Short of that, perhaps bring both the new and old clutch assemblies to the machine shop who did the flywheel work and see if they'd help you figure out what is different. Perhaps they'd be able to re-machine whatever has been manufactured incorrectly.

Good luck,

Steve

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Maybe moving on to a different parts supplier would help you out:

Clutch assy.
http://www.madisontractor.com/32425-14200-assembly-dual-clutch-8-5.html
or
http://www.ebay.com/itm/32425-14200...-L2250-L2550-L2650-9200-Tractor-/220913468736

Back disk
http://www.madisontractor.com/32425-14400-clutch-disc-8-5-organic-solid.html
or
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Kubota-Clutch-Disc-L235-L275-L2250-L2650-L2850-32425-14400-/320720768980

 

[olthumpa]

Maybe moving on to a different parts supplier would help you out:

Clutch assy.
http://www.madisontractor.com/32425-14200-assembly-dual-clutch-8-5.html
or
http://www.ebay.com/itm/32425-14200...-L2250-L2550-L2650-9200-Tractor-/220913468736

Back disk
http://www.madisontractor.com/32425-14400-clutch-disc-8-5-organic-solid.html
or
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Kubota-Clutch-Disc-L235-L275-L2250-L2650-L2850-32425-14400-/320720768980

Already got 2 bad ones from madisonttractor.com.
One bad one from reliableaftermarketpartsinc from their web site.
All have been manufactured by A&I. reliableaftermarketpartsinc is sending me another assembly from a different manufacture. The first one they sent was supposed to be from a different manufacture but to expedite the order someone changed it to A&I. I called them Friday and spoke to the person that I originally talked to. (helps to write things down) He checked the order and was not to happy that it had been changed because I had told him I was not interested in an A&I assembly. So the drama continues.

 

[lsmurphy]

You just need to hit it with a bigger hammer.

 

[olthumpa]

You just need to hit it with a bigger hammer.

I thought about doing that to the old assembly but keeping it around at least until I have everything back up and running seemed the wiser choice.

 

[Apogee]

So, a dumb question if I may:

Each time I've looked at pics of the clutch assembly I've noticed the three bolts on the end of the clutch forks. Is it possible to adjust these? What I'm wondering is if one can adjust the protrusion of the three bolts so the pto clutch engages/disengages with (or close to) when the main clutch releases. Could it be that these need to be adjusted and not used as set from the manufacturer or is this not how it works? Is there another adjustment someplace else that I can see that independently controls the release of the pto clutch? Could it be somehow it was incorrectly assembled at the factory and the disengagement arms aren't sitting in a machined relief or something like that thereby throwing the "throw" adjustment off?

It's a fairly sophisticated assembly and it's difficult for me to understand how every one shipped so far is built wrong.

Am I completely off base here?

 

[olthumpa]

Apogee, the three bolts that you refer to are indeed used to adjust the gap between the through bearing and the "clutch forks". The clearance on these does have to be adjusted. These are not the problem and I have tried many different gaps and even longer bolts to see if it would make any difference and it did not.

There are also three bolts and lock nuts on the side of the clutch assembly that need to be set between 0.95 and 1.00mm. When you step on the clutch peddle the through out bearing is supposed to push the "clutch forks" into the center of the clutch assembly. This lifts the pressure plate on the first stage releasing the drive clutch. The three bolts that are on the side of the clutch assembly are bolted through and locked to this pressure plate. When this plate is raised, the 1.0mm gap that I referred to closes until one of the second stage clutch pressure plate in contacted. If you continue to depress the clutch these bolts lift up one of the pressure plates for the second stage there by disengaging it.

The problem that I have is that when the clutch assembly is bolted to the flywheel these "clutch forks" are drawn down into the center of the clutch assembly allowing for very little travel , there by not allowing the bolts on the side to be lifted up enough to even make contact with the second stage pressure plate. The clutch forks bottom out and will not lift the second stage pressure plate.

I have taken the clutch assemblies apart to make sure that they are assembled correctly.

Poor machining is one of the problems. On one of the assemblies one of the clutch forks did not move freely binding because machining was sloppy. Excess metal was shards were left in all three forks.

 

[Apogee]

I was looking carefully at the pics and exploded diagram last night. Looking at what I'm guessing was the original assembly (post 51, pic 5) & (post 52, pic 2), the clutch disc hub appears to facing the rear of the clutch (away from the flywheel). In the other pics of the new assembly, it appears that the hub is assembled facing the flywheel.

More importantly, in looking at the exploded diagram it appears the hubs have to be facing the same direction. In other words, looking at the diagram, it appears the each hub needs to face away from the flywheel towards the rear of the clutch assembly.

Is this how you've been assembling it? I did notice your comment that the disc can only go one way, but I'm wondering if it can only go one way due to how the pto clutch disc is installed. In other words, if the pto clutch disc is in backwards, then the hub will hit the hub of the main clutch so it would only fit one way... What I'm wondering about is what if you flipped the pto disc, which would subsequently force the main disc to also be flipped so that the stack is assembled with both hubs facing the rear of the clutch away from the flywheel...

Does this make sense?

I'm sure you've tried everything, but I figured it might be worth mentioning as an idea.

 

[Apogee]

I may have my directions mixed up regarding if the hub is facing either towards or away from the flywheel. But, what I'm getting at, is in the pics of what *I think* is the original assembly, the disc is assembled with the hub facing in the opposite direction as what I'm seeing in the pics of the new assembly.

Food for thought.

Steve

 

[Apogee]

"The problem that I have is that when the clutch assembly is bolted to the flywheel these "clutch forks" are drawn down into the center of the clutch assembly allowing for very little travel , there by not allowing the bolts on the side to be lifted up enough to even make contact with the second stage pressure plate. The clutch forks bottom out and will not lift the second stage pressure plate. "

One final idea:

If you place the original main housing on a flat table and measure the height from the table surface to a point someplace at the center of housing, then compare it to the same spot (and therefore hopefully the same height on the new housings), it'd be interesting to know if the problem is that they're machining the new housings short. Wouldn't that cause the clutch assembly to get sucked down when you assemble it, thereby limiting the release fork travel?

 

[olthumpa]

Yesterday my father fell and hit his head and was taken to the hospital. Things have only gone down hill since then. Late this afternoon he was moved from the hospital to a Hospice for care until he passes away.

This puts the tractor and the rest of my life on hold. Family comes first.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Very sorry to hear about your father!

Yes, family first!

 

[Apogee]

Very, very sorry to hear about your dad. Our thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.

Take care!

Kind regards,

Steve

 

[BAP]

I am very sorry to hear about your Father. It must be very tough and hard on you and your family. Let us know when you are ready to tackle the tractor again, and we will provide what knowledge we can. Take care of yourself and family that definitely comes before anything else.