All I know is I started running sync in my HDs long before anybody esle around here and always got,, its gona blow up,, you ll spin the bearing out,, its not good for air cooled motors,, yada yada yada,, well none of it ever happend,, So yeah the stuff works and works well,, Im all done now
Quieter HST tractor
- Thread starter Cal270
- Start date
i started out using mobile 1 before it was fashionable. i had a 90 chrysler lebaron turbo. never used normal oil in it. 10,000 mile oil changes. when i sold it, the dealership remarked that the engine was very quiet. told me that most of them with mileage like mine sounded like a diesel.
been using synthetics ever since.
been using synthetics ever since.
RCW
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
BX2360, FEL, MMM, BX2750D snowblower. 1953 Minneapolis Moline ZAU
As Bulldog pointed out - well-said.Those you think that placing 30 weight in your tractor is the right idea, well go ahead and do it ....by all means.....those who change their car oil every 3000 miles, by all means do so!
Oils today are just a wee bit better than oils in the past! (inject sarcasm here)
Part of the problem are folks like me - everything here runs full synthetic, except for a few small engines. Even the Stihl equipment uses synthetic 2-cycle oil. I understand the stuff is better - just can't make the leap of faith to the modern-day new-fangled stuff!!
My last cellphone had rotary dial!!
While the oil is so much better, are the filters?? Can you rely on months/years of service without accumulating condensation/moisture??
As I've said repeatedly here, just to make myself feel better, I'll extend service intervals A LITTLE. I do my truck motor oil at 4-5,000 miles, instead of 3 like before.
Will my SUDT2 stay in the BX from 38 hours until 438 hours - probably not. At 150 now, have time to decide. 200 hours sounds pretty good to me.
You get the idea - I like the stuff and want to take advantage of the newest technologies - just can't get away from what we always did before.
Of course, all my stuff is small. So for $100, I can change out anything and won't break the bank. No so with the big machines like Bulldog's.
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RCW, the way you talk was just like I was when Amsoil was introduced to me. A very good friend of mine told me about it and I was like no way. I was a very happy Mobil user and had always had great luck with their products. I grew up on a farm and everyone was old school. If it said change at 3K it didn't mean put 3001, that was treated like a sin. Whatever the manual said it how it was and nothing else would do.
When I was 16 I bought my first dirt bike and the owner said he used Mobil 1. Told me the bike did great and I should continue to use that oil. So my synthetic adventure began. I started to see a difference in how long the oil stayed clean and how much cooler it ran than anything else I had been on.
Now when my buddy told me about Amsoil my first thought was, I'm happy with what I have and don't need to change. After a few days I told him to order me enough to change my F150 over and I would give it a try. At that time I averaged 9 mpg driving to work. I picked up 2 mpg when I changed my engine oil. A week or so later I changed my tranny and transfer case and gained 2 more mpg. Put ATF in my power steering and it felt like driving a new truck it turned so easy. Changed the front and rear diff and gained 1 mpg. So in total I picked up 5 mpg on local driving which allowed my to be able to drive to work all week on one tank of gas instead of 2 like before.
I did a lot of side by side testing to compare Amsoil to what I was using. Temp readings, how smooth it operated, fuel consumption, anything I could compare I did and every single time Amsoil performed better. All of this was uncharted ground for me and I was nervous about any kind of change because it was against everything I had been taught. My dad was a stubborn man but before he passed away I had him using Amsoil in all his stuff.
My advise, start small and test it yourself. Try some 2 stroke oil, you'll see a difference. Take a video so you have proof it runs good before the switch. Amsoil stands behind what they sell and will cover repairs if it's their fault. After the first test you'll be curious about what else it will do. Try some small engine oil, you will see and hear the difference in your little B&S engine. Change the gear oil in your rotary cutter. Rev it to pto speed, kick it in neutral, then time it until it stops turning. After you change the gear oil don't be surprised when it spins 2 or 3 minutes longer than before. And it will run quieter and smoother that ever before.
I'm going to shut up before I shift into second gear. I have over 20 years of stories I could share about Amsoil and how it's helped me. I became a believer, I wasn't born one. Only after seeing it with my on eyes and crunching my on numbers did I continue to use it. Now it's in everything I own and I have no regrets. Don't try it unless you are willing to give up what your using right now. If you give it a true test Amsoil will out perform every other brand, hands down nothing will come close.
When I was 16 I bought my first dirt bike and the owner said he used Mobil 1. Told me the bike did great and I should continue to use that oil. So my synthetic adventure began. I started to see a difference in how long the oil stayed clean and how much cooler it ran than anything else I had been on.
Now when my buddy told me about Amsoil my first thought was, I'm happy with what I have and don't need to change. After a few days I told him to order me enough to change my F150 over and I would give it a try. At that time I averaged 9 mpg driving to work. I picked up 2 mpg when I changed my engine oil. A week or so later I changed my tranny and transfer case and gained 2 more mpg. Put ATF in my power steering and it felt like driving a new truck it turned so easy. Changed the front and rear diff and gained 1 mpg. So in total I picked up 5 mpg on local driving which allowed my to be able to drive to work all week on one tank of gas instead of 2 like before.
I did a lot of side by side testing to compare Amsoil to what I was using. Temp readings, how smooth it operated, fuel consumption, anything I could compare I did and every single time Amsoil performed better. All of this was uncharted ground for me and I was nervous about any kind of change because it was against everything I had been taught. My dad was a stubborn man but before he passed away I had him using Amsoil in all his stuff.
My advise, start small and test it yourself. Try some 2 stroke oil, you'll see a difference. Take a video so you have proof it runs good before the switch. Amsoil stands behind what they sell and will cover repairs if it's their fault. After the first test you'll be curious about what else it will do. Try some small engine oil, you will see and hear the difference in your little B&S engine. Change the gear oil in your rotary cutter. Rev it to pto speed, kick it in neutral, then time it until it stops turning. After you change the gear oil don't be surprised when it spins 2 or 3 minutes longer than before. And it will run quieter and smoother that ever before.
I'm going to shut up before I shift into second gear. I have over 20 years of stories I could share about Amsoil and how it's helped me. I became a believer, I wasn't born one. Only after seeing it with my on eyes and crunching my on numbers did I continue to use it. Now it's in everything I own and I have no regrets. Don't try it unless you are willing to give up what your using right now. If you give it a true test Amsoil will out perform every other brand, hands down nothing will come close.
I have been in the engine business since the 60's.
Gears destroy oils
Blowby destroy oils
Insufficient heating up allows condensates to destroy oils
If you are an infrequent user, dino oil is the right way to go, changing it once a year, perhaps the filter every other year. This assumes you are well below manufacturer rated change intervals.
If you are a hard user and changes are based on extreme usage or sheer hours, then syn is the ticket.
I have a pickup, I drive it about 3,000 miles a year, I use dino. It is changed once a year, filter every other year. My other car, I drive it about 15,000 a year, it gets syn and is changed twice a year.
My tractor will get less than 100 hours a year. The engine, probably just T5 every year and a filter every other year. The HST will go by the book (300 hours I believe) and I'll spring for the SUDT.
Oiling failures I have seen are due to:
Failing to check levels
Using the wrong weight of oil
Not enabling the engine to get to full operating temperature by usage. Idling once a month does not do it, it must be under load.
Running under load before up to base operating temps.
A syn last more hours than dino. But if time (once a year) is greater than run hours, there is little to nothing to be gained by syn and save the coin and run dino. But if you run hard and/or to change intervals, over the long run, syn is better.
I've used a lot of different syns over the years (loads of Amsoil back in the 80's when I raced RX7's), I still have several cases of Amsoil grease. I have not seen a case where one syn is better than another in identical run situations. What I've seen is good lubes in conjunction with good practices make for a near trouble free engine/mechanical life.
Gears destroy oils
Blowby destroy oils
Insufficient heating up allows condensates to destroy oils
If you are an infrequent user, dino oil is the right way to go, changing it once a year, perhaps the filter every other year. This assumes you are well below manufacturer rated change intervals.
If you are a hard user and changes are based on extreme usage or sheer hours, then syn is the ticket.
I have a pickup, I drive it about 3,000 miles a year, I use dino. It is changed once a year, filter every other year. My other car, I drive it about 15,000 a year, it gets syn and is changed twice a year.
My tractor will get less than 100 hours a year. The engine, probably just T5 every year and a filter every other year. The HST will go by the book (300 hours I believe) and I'll spring for the SUDT.
Oiling failures I have seen are due to:
Failing to check levels
Using the wrong weight of oil
Not enabling the engine to get to full operating temperature by usage. Idling once a month does not do it, it must be under load.
Running under load before up to base operating temps.
A syn last more hours than dino. But if time (once a year) is greater than run hours, there is little to nothing to be gained by syn and save the coin and run dino. But if you run hard and/or to change intervals, over the long run, syn is better.
I've used a lot of different syns over the years (loads of Amsoil back in the 80's when I raced RX7's), I still have several cases of Amsoil grease. I have not seen a case where one syn is better than another in identical run situations. What I've seen is good lubes in conjunction with good practices make for a near trouble free engine/mechanical life.
William1, I have a honest question and in no way mean to offend.
What is the reason or advantage to not changing the filter every year when you change the oil?
I've always been taught that oil doesn't go bad, it simply gets dirty. Since the dirt (so to speak) is trapped in the filter why not change it so everything gets a fresh start?
What do you know that I don't?
Thanks, Bulldog
What is the reason or advantage to not changing the filter every year when you change the oil?
I've always been taught that oil doesn't go bad, it simply gets dirty. Since the dirt (so to speak) is trapped in the filter why not change it so everything gets a fresh start?
What do you know that I don't?
Thanks, Bulldog
Not changing a filter is simply because it is highly doubtful it has any debris in significant quantities in it. A low hour machine, the big issue with oil is simply age and exposure to the elements. A filter is usually completely filled with oil and does not have condensate issues.
In all honesty, a filter can usually last multiple oil changes and really is not a concern unless operated in harsh environments. There is a lot of surface area. Remember too, it only filters out the 'big stuff'. Any tiny particle (typically less than 1/2 of the minimum running clearance) will just pass through and not affect anything. So filters normally allow the tiny stuff to get through. After the first runtime hours, all the left over manufacturing 'sparf' has been washed out and collected by the filter. Hence the request by Kubota to do an early oil and filter change. This I stick to and if anything, would possibly shorten the number of hours to first change. Again, depending on the working conditions.
Oil filters are cheap and it is not a big deal (and certainly easy enough to do) where a filter change with every oil change is not a big deal. But it is over kill.
Oil does 'wear out' and it gets dirty. Any oil subjected to shearing forces (going through gears) does wear out, The extreme pressures applied by the gears do cut the oil molecules up like worms though a meat grinder. This is one of the areas syns shine in that they have more longer chained molecules and that enable it to last longer. The other part of oils that 'wear out' is the additives. Over time, they simply loose their effectiveness. The dirty aspect is from blowby and condensate. Dino oil too, tends to change color simply when heated up. Syn does too but it usually requires much higher temps and if it is changed by temp, you probably over heated and need to resolve that. It is not dirty, it is just not honey colored anymore. So you need to temper the desire to change just based on oil color. A fresh oil change and a long day can result in darkened oil.
For those really interested, you can send off a sample of your oil to a place like Blackstone - http://www.blackstone-labs.com/
and really find out its' condition.
I know a lot of people who are all over the book on oil changes. Some, only do the specified intervals, irrespective of time or usage conditions. Others, change it when the honey color goes away. One of my neighbors has a BX. He got it three years ago (I think) He does not have even 40 hours yet. He was talking to me and telling me he was going to get his first service probably this spring!!!! I told him he should of had the oil changed at the twelve month mark and he stated he only had about 10 hours on it at that time. Stored in an unconditioned space, that engine has been breathing in and out humid VA air, exhaling every hot day and sucking in cool, humid night air. I would not be in the least bit surprised to find milk colored goo on the inside of his valve cover and up in all the internal recesses.
Too often is way better than not often enough. But a filter is a closed part of the oiling system and does not have a condensation problem. So on a low hour, low usage machine a filter every other year is plenty (except that first change, then you should change it). Though I do rec. oil changes every year, even if the engine is never run.
On a really old and high hour machine, oil changes and filter changes may be needed more often though all that is being done at that point is to forestall the inevitable and a rebuild is on the horizon.
A very sensitive person can 'feel' when oil is 'going off'. Transmissions begin to feel 'notchy'. Pressure relief valves 'whine' louder. Lifters can take just a quarter second longer to pump up. Oil pressures drop when hot.
Cut open an old filter (slice, no saw or grinder) and spread out the pleats. I do this from time to time and usually see nothing except in race engines.
Back to your final point 'oil doesn't go bad, it simply gets dirty' then why ever change the oil, just a new filter should do the trick Easy enough to test. Take a oil sample. Change the filter, run the engine for a half hour and take another sample and get them tested.
An oil filters life is over when particulate it has captured exceeds it flow capability and forces the internal bypass valve to open. Of course, you never want to get there. But if there is next to nothing in the filter, changing to does nothing (other than peace of mind). Ditto with air filters. Oiled foam type, are serviced once a year (the oils dry out) or when dirt is visible to the eye or a pinch leaves teh fingers feeling gritty. Paper filers, tapped out over white paper shows the level of debris. If it is a lot and it takes a vigorous effort to dislodge it, that filter is most certainly done. Same if it is quite few years old, even if never run, the paper drys out and becomes brittle. If the filter is just a couple of years old and still looks like a new one, it is fine. Feel the pleats, if they are hard, it is past its' prime.
In all honesty, a filter can usually last multiple oil changes and really is not a concern unless operated in harsh environments. There is a lot of surface area. Remember too, it only filters out the 'big stuff'. Any tiny particle (typically less than 1/2 of the minimum running clearance) will just pass through and not affect anything. So filters normally allow the tiny stuff to get through. After the first runtime hours, all the left over manufacturing 'sparf' has been washed out and collected by the filter. Hence the request by Kubota to do an early oil and filter change. This I stick to and if anything, would possibly shorten the number of hours to first change. Again, depending on the working conditions.
Oil filters are cheap and it is not a big deal (and certainly easy enough to do) where a filter change with every oil change is not a big deal. But it is over kill.
Oil does 'wear out' and it gets dirty. Any oil subjected to shearing forces (going through gears) does wear out, The extreme pressures applied by the gears do cut the oil molecules up like worms though a meat grinder. This is one of the areas syns shine in that they have more longer chained molecules and that enable it to last longer. The other part of oils that 'wear out' is the additives. Over time, they simply loose their effectiveness. The dirty aspect is from blowby and condensate. Dino oil too, tends to change color simply when heated up. Syn does too but it usually requires much higher temps and if it is changed by temp, you probably over heated and need to resolve that. It is not dirty, it is just not honey colored anymore. So you need to temper the desire to change just based on oil color. A fresh oil change and a long day can result in darkened oil.
For those really interested, you can send off a sample of your oil to a place like Blackstone - http://www.blackstone-labs.com/
and really find out its' condition.
I know a lot of people who are all over the book on oil changes. Some, only do the specified intervals, irrespective of time or usage conditions. Others, change it when the honey color goes away. One of my neighbors has a BX. He got it three years ago (I think) He does not have even 40 hours yet. He was talking to me and telling me he was going to get his first service probably this spring!!!! I told him he should of had the oil changed at the twelve month mark and he stated he only had about 10 hours on it at that time. Stored in an unconditioned space, that engine has been breathing in and out humid VA air, exhaling every hot day and sucking in cool, humid night air. I would not be in the least bit surprised to find milk colored goo on the inside of his valve cover and up in all the internal recesses.
Too often is way better than not often enough. But a filter is a closed part of the oiling system and does not have a condensation problem. So on a low hour, low usage machine a filter every other year is plenty (except that first change, then you should change it). Though I do rec. oil changes every year, even if the engine is never run.
On a really old and high hour machine, oil changes and filter changes may be needed more often though all that is being done at that point is to forestall the inevitable and a rebuild is on the horizon.
A very sensitive person can 'feel' when oil is 'going off'. Transmissions begin to feel 'notchy'. Pressure relief valves 'whine' louder. Lifters can take just a quarter second longer to pump up. Oil pressures drop when hot.
Cut open an old filter (slice, no saw or grinder) and spread out the pleats. I do this from time to time and usually see nothing except in race engines.
Back to your final point 'oil doesn't go bad, it simply gets dirty' then why ever change the oil, just a new filter should do the trick
Easy enough to test. Take a oil sample. Change the filter, run the engine for a half hour and take another sample and get them tested.An oil filters life is over when particulate it has captured exceeds it flow capability and forces the internal bypass valve to open. Of course, you never want to get there. But if there is next to nothing in the filter, changing to does nothing (other than peace of mind). Ditto with air filters. Oiled foam type, are serviced once a year (the oils dry out) or when dirt is visible to the eye or a pinch leaves teh fingers feeling gritty. Paper filers, tapped out over white paper shows the level of debris. If it is a lot and it takes a vigorous effort to dislodge it, that filter is most certainly done. Same if it is quite few years old, even if never run, the paper drys out and becomes brittle. If the filter is just a couple of years old and still looks like a new one, it is fine. Feel the pleats, if they are hard, it is past its' prime.
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Bulldog, The "oil doesn't go bad it just gets dirty" may be accurate but not relevant. Your absolutely correct, the base stock in the oil you put in an engine does not go bad unless you overheat it. However the additive package in the oil goes away over time. The detergents, emulsifiers, corrosion preventatives... the list is huge. All those things added by different companies in different amounts to make their oil perform the way it does, are degraded over time. Basic chemistry and has nothing to do with filtration. The implication is that if, say you run an extremely small micron filter or a centrifugal filter, your oil may be clean, it may be spotless, but over time it may be just the base stock without the features added by the oil maker that give it some very specific performance properties. If all you were worried about was clean oil, you could run really inexpensive oil and really great filtration. However, lubrication isn't the only thing we demand from our oil.
A blast from the past. I had to go bad a read some of this just to remember what was going on.
Yeah, lubrication is what I want and that's why I don't mind spending the money for Amsoil.
Yeah, lubrication is what I want and that's why I don't mind spending the money for Amsoil.