Problems with Float - BX2230, LA211 FEL

[RobiBX2230]

So, I'm new around tractors but I bought a BX2230 used and I'm using it to snow blow with the 50" front mount blower -- Problem is, I cannot seem to get the hydraulics to float. I picked the tractor up in September and I didnt use the FEL very much so I can't remember if I could float it. However, I'm now using the front quick hitch (BX2753, I believe, if it matters) and cannot seem to get it right. I've read a lot and learned that moisture can be an issue in the cold with not allowing float until the machine is warmed up, this I've read was fixed by Kubota in later model years by adding a small pin hole (somewhere) to allow any moisture to drain... I'm attaching some picutes. Float should be a detent position all the way forward, but I cannot get my loader control into that position no matter how hard I push and I've pushed hard, and I really don't want to break anything. I can, however, get my loader control valve into some sort of detent all the way to the right (as if I were dumping the bucket, it doesn't stay there, but I can pop it into a secondary position far right). This seems a bit weird to me... Any help would be appreciated!

 

[GWD]

Does it float when you hold the lever all the way forward by hand?

Another way to look at it is: will the lever go any further past the simple "lower" position and if it does, does it float when held there?

There may be corrosion in the detent valve if it won't hold there. Don't try to take it apart since it is full of small ball bearings that like to go hide. After making that mistake on a L3650, a small hole was drilled in the bottom of the case that covers the detent valve and WD40 is hosed into it each time the FEL is greased.

Make sure there is no physical obstruction like a twig or wayward bolt keeping the lever from reaching this "extra forward" position. The lever base and knuckles are supposed to be lubed when greasing but lack of lube would not likely cause the kind of failure you are experiencing.

Last suggestion - make sure the little lock lever is operating properly and is truly fully unlocked for all lever functions.

 

[RobiBX2230]

Does it float when you hold the lever all the way forward by hand?

Another way to look at it is: will the lever go any further past the simple "lower" position and if it does, does it float when held there?

There may be corrosion in the detent valve if it won't hold there. Don't try to take it apart since it is full of small ball bearings that like to go hide. After making that mistake on a L3650, a small hole was drilled in the bottom of the case that covers the detent valve and WD40 is hosed into it each time the FEL is greased.

Make sure there is no physical obstruction like a twig or wayward bolt keeping the lever from reaching this "extra forward" position. The lever base and knuckles are supposed to be lubed when greasing but lack of lube would not likely cause the kind of failure you are experiencing.

Last suggestion - make sure the little lock lever is operating properly and is truly fully unlocked for all lever functions.

The lever will NOT go past the simple lower position. When the machine is at idle (or off) I can get it to stay in simple lower, but cannot go past it. I took the cover off for the picture to show there is no obstruction... The lock lever is fully out of the way, it was rough to slide so I greased it up while I was in there... I just dont know why I cannot get it in the "extra forward" position. And like I mentioned there is an "extra right" position for some reason. I saw someone else's BX2230 valve pictures on this site and they look different, but not wildy different... I'm LOST being a rookie and it gets very frustrating. If I just put it in simple lower position at idle it can stay and will do nothing, however, if I idle the tractor up, I lift the front wheels of the tractor (with bucket curled all the way back or even just the snow blower on the front).

 

[GWD]

Well, I wish I could help more but maybe someone else here can come up with something.

I did take apart my valve and clean it out - that is how I know about the escaping ball bearings. It is not an adviseable thing to do.

Perhaps you can remove the whole valve assembly and take it to a tractor dealer or hydraulic repair shop to get it looked at professionally and fixed right.

 

[RobiBX2230]

Here is a quick video of what has been driving me insane!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrLYjPDQIlA

 

[Wotrboi]

The valve is equipped with a "regenerative" function on the dump circuit. The normal position to the right, short circuits the fluid from the retracting side of the cylinder into the extending side. That in addition to the fluid from the pump allows a very quick dump cycle. The far right position eliminates the "regen" and provides a slower but more powerful dump cycle.

 

[GWD]

Let me know if you can see a sticker or plate on your loader control that is either BX2013, or BX2014. The loaders control valve and wether or not the quick hitch option was selected at time of new delivery made a difference on which valve the ordering dealer selected. Since you have added a quick hitch, you may now be finding out that you have a mis-matched control valve, or one that is not compatible with quick hitch implements, like a snow blade or blower. Usually, a loader hydraulic control that has a float feature, has one cartridge that is physically longer in length, and when looking at the control valve, it is easily noticed.

Both cartridges on your control valve are the same length. The cartridge with the sticker "YW249" tells me your valve is not loaded with a "float" catrtidge.

Ooooh...Good knowledge. That would seem to be the answer.

The float cartridge, if present, is indeed longer than the other. I noticed that also in the picture but didn't make the intellectual next step.

 

[tshep]

Hi all - newbie with similar problems.... this thread is referenced at TBN...
It's a fairly new-to-me BX23.

I have what looks exactly like the third picture in the OP (I think it's even the same number on the black cylinders/hexagons).
For our first snow I did NOT float, after advice I really pressed lever hard into 12:00 position and it went past, and hung once, and then just didn't hang - but continued to travel past 12:00.
On our second snow, I really felt like the bucket floated, or at least fell. I could push into 12:00 and lift the tractor front wheels, and then push past that and the tractor would fall. Based on that, I felt like I had 'found' Float, even if it would not maintain position.

Decided to try to get into mechanism - got cover off, and tried to loosen 2 lower cylinder/nuts. Mine seem to be hex shaped for the lower - say 3 inches - and then reduce to a slightly less diameter circle as they enter the control. I do not see threads on the reduced part as it enters. The shaft to the control (from the stick) seems to have the same travel range as its mate (1/4 or so up and down from centered), and then it alone goes another 1/8th or so into the control.

VIC - GWD - how do I reconcile what I seem to get (a position past 12:00, where the front wheels will drop), equal length cylinders, and your posts?

And, regardless, how are the black hex cylinders serviced? I gave mine what should have been a good enough tug for right handed machine threads. Is there something I didn't notice?

Thanks all - I tend to get wordy when I'm trying to be clear...

 

[SteveBX]

I have the same problems with float. My ontrol behaves the same as what you posted in your video, except it does not have two positions when you push the lever to the right. Did you ever find a solution? If so, what was it?

 

[TheOldHokie]

Here is a quick video of what has been driving me insane!

Float is normally a fourth position in the lift down direction. The fourth position going right is for disabling regenerstion on the bucket dump.

Dan

 

[SteveBX]

Float is normally a fourth position in the lift down direction. The fourth position going right is for disabling regenerstion on the bucket dump.

Dan

Dan,
Thank you for the reply. The picture below is annotated with the position that does not seem to be there. Mine behaves exactly as the as the video posted by RobiBX2230. Holding the lever all the way north, continues to push the bucket down and lift the front of the tractor. No matter how hard I push, there is no detent engaging and no float.

Quite honestly, I believe it is the same tractor. I bought it in late 2010 from a guy with a last name starting with "Robi" in the same small town as RobiBX2230 and exactly the same combination of tractor and attachments.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Dan,
Thank you for the reply. The picture below is annotated with the position that does not seem to be there. Mine behaves exactly as the as the video posted by RobiBX2230. Holding the lever all the way north, continues to push the bucket down and lift the front of the tractor. No matter how hard I push, there is no detent engaging and no float.

Quite honestly, I believe it is the same tractor. I bought it in late 2010 from a guy with a last name starting with "Robi" in the same small town as RobiBX2230 and exactly the same combination of tractor and attachments.
View attachment 74568

Can you post a picture of the valve showing the entire body including handles? Based on the diagram there should be four positions on the boom and three positions on the bucket. Perhaps someone has reversed the spools????

Never mind - I see you already posted a picture. The left most spool has a fourth position - the rightmost does not. That's a very interesting valve - no ports on the top. When you place the valve in the rightmost position does it lock and hold on its own?

Dan

 

[GreensvilleJay]

in looking at those 3 pictures,' someone' wrote '12' on the valve sections...
so I have to...
wonder if that 'someone' actually replaced the valve assembly with another unit, the WRONG one ?

 

[SteveBX]

in looking at those 3 pictures,' someone' wrote '12' on the valve sections...
so I have to...
wonder if that 'someone' actually replaced the valve assembly with another unit, the WRONG one ?

Dan,

It does lock in the tight most position and stay there. Not sure what it does while in that position. I tried switching the hydraulic lines to the front mounted snowblower to use the lef/right on the valve and see if that position would float. I did take more photos. I will not bother posting as they match the ones earlier in the thread right down to the hand-marked "12".

Float is not a must have, but it would be handy in some situations. Right now I think it would help with the front mounted snow blower (get the height high enough so I can still steer and reduce wear on the blade and feet, and low enough to scrape a little). If it is the wrong valve, I could get the right one. Do you or anybody else know if there is a non-Kubota (lower cost option)?

 

[TheOldHokie]

Dan,

It does lock in the tight most position and stay there. Not sure what it does while in that position. I tried switching the hydraulic lines to the front mounted snowblower to use the lef/right on the valve and see if that position would float. I did take more photos. I will not bother posting as they match the ones earlier in the thread right down to the hand-marked "12".

Float is not a must have, but it would be handy in some situations. Right now I think it would help with the front mounted snow blower (get the height high enough so I can still steer and reduce wear on the blade and feet, and low enough to scrape a little). If it is the wrong valve, I could get the right one. Do you or anybody else know if there is a non-Kubota (lower cost option)?

If it locks in the rightmost position i would guess its float. The cartridge marked YW... is an inlet pressure relief.

If you raise the bucket curl hack and then lock the valve right what happens? If it sags all the way down that would also indicate float. And if while its locked in that position you can lift the front edge of the bucket and it drops when you let go it is most definitly in float.

Dan

 

[SteveBX]

Although it has two positions to the right, it does not lock in the right-most position, Even if held in the right most positions, it does not float.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Although it has two positions to the right, it does not lock in the right-most position, Even if held in the right most positions, it does not float.

Now I am confused. In post #14 you said it locks in the right most position. I also see the pictures were not yours but Robi's.

That is a very strange valve and does not match anything shown in the LA211 parts diagrams. All of those valves have threaded top ports and yours has those cast in runners going to the side. It makes it difficult to tell which port goes where on the valve.

And Kubota returns no parts data for a BX22 anything

Dan

 

[SteveBX]

Now I am confused. In post #14 you said it locks in the right most position. I also see the pictures were not yours but Robi's.

That is a very strange valve and does not match anything shown in the LA211 parts diagrams. All of those valves have threaded top ports and yours has those cast in runners going to the side. It makes it difficult to tell which port goes where on the valve.

Dan

I was mistaken in post #14. It does not lock in the right-most position. Yes, the pictures were Robi's. I took pictures as well. They matched Robi's. I am sure it is the same tractor. I have attached one of my photos for comparison.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I was mistaken in post #14. It does not lock in the right-most position. Yes, the pictures were Robi's. I took pictures as well. They matched Robi's. I am sure it is the same tractor. I have attached one of my photos for comparison.
View attachment 74577

Yes I would say its the same machine. Odd I can't get any parts diagrams for it. The position label on the loader clearly does not match the valve you have and the LA211 parts breakdown does not show that valve. That cast in work port manifold on the side is clearly purpose built for something special.

Dan

 

[whitetiger]

Yes I would say its the same machine. Odd I can't get any parts diagrams for it. The position label on the loader clearly does not match the valve you have and the LA211 parts breakdown does not show that valve. That cast in work port manifold on the side is clearly purpose built for something special.

Dan

I think this is what you are looking for