OK my old gen set motor has given up the ghost. So I have a gen set with no motor to drive it,,, NOW, I think if I could figure out how to put some pullies on the shaft and hook it up to my Kubota that i wouldnt have to buy a new generator set,,,,, SOOOOO all my smart friends what RPM would I have to run the gen set to get 240 ac AND how would I figure out the ratio for pullies from a 540 RPM pto
Old Gen Set
- Thread starter skeets
- Start date
Daren Todd
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
Massey Ferguson 1825E, Kubota Z121S, Box blade, Rotary Cutter
What horsepower engine was running it? Shaft size/ shape on the motor? Might be easier and cheaper to just repower it. How many kw was the generator?
Most generators run the engine wide open, 3000-3600RPM range. The way to set up the belting or gearing is with a ratio, that I usedta remember. However, since I gots a computer with google, and everything, here's a DIY link...
http://www.culvermotor.com/Engineering-Formulas/Pulley-and-RPM-Calculator.html
http://www.culvermotor.com/Engineering-Formulas/Pulley-and-RPM-Calculator.html
85Hokie
Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
BX-25D ,PTB. Under Armor, '90&'92-B7100HST's, '06 BX1850 FEL
Skeets,
A many a man has wanted to use their tractor PTO as a generation of electrical power. AND there are PTO gennys out there....
most of the people I know that were trying to do this was with a ol ford 8n or such....and the bottom line is that a 20+ HP engine (4 cyl) running a speed enough to handle a 5Kw or more power, after looking at allll the parts and pieces, the one part they never thought of was fuel usage. A larger tractor will be burn a lot of fuel, even a diesel engine running at a good RPM like 2500 to get the pto up and running right will still burn fuel at an inefficient rate.
most generators need to run at a very specific rpm to make the 60hz and 120+/- volts - and with that you will want your tractor to run at a manageable rpm too!
I am with Daren - the cheaper route and more efficient route is to get another engine to hook back up to the genny....I know that aint what cha wanna hear, and WHEN you do get all the pulleys and belts and everything else hooked up - I damn sure want to see it!!!!
An interesting discussion here:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/pto-driven-generator-engineering-help-159869/
Bruce
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/pto-driven-generator-engineering-help-159869/
Bruce
Grouse Feathers
New member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
BX2370, FEL, Snowblower-BX5455, Homebuilt Forks, LP RB1560, LP GS1548
Skeets
I looked at some online formulas for pulleys and belts and decided that was to much work for a retired engineer when I am confident of the outcome. So I decided to make a complex engineering estimate known as a SWAG (scientific wild ass guess). It will be difficult (probably out of reach financially) to increase all that low speed (540 rpm) torque to power at 3600 rpm. The pulley on the tractor will need to be 6.7 times larger than the one on the generator. Belt loads will be high and slippage of the belt on the smaller pulley will be a problem.
The issues can be resolved but would require expensive pulleys, belts, and bearings to handle the loads. A gear box would work better, but that too would be expensive. The mid pto with higher speed would work better, but is less accessible and would probably require a drive shaft and more bearings.
Options: 1 Replace the motor or the whole generator set. 2 Buy Daren Todd's diesel...lol
I looked at some online formulas for pulleys and belts and decided that was to much work for a retired engineer when I am confident of the outcome. So I decided to make a complex engineering estimate known as a SWAG (scientific wild ass guess).
It will be difficult (probably out of reach financially) to increase all that low speed (540 rpm) torque to power at 3600 rpm. The pulley on the tractor will need to be 6.7 times larger than the one on the generator. Belt loads will be high and slippage of the belt on the smaller pulley will be a problem. The issues can be resolved but would require expensive pulleys, belts, and bearings to handle the loads. A gear box would work better, but that too would be expensive. The mid pto with higher speed would work better, but is less accessible and would probably require a drive shaft and more bearings.
Options: 1 Replace the motor or the whole generator set.
2 Buy Daren Todd's diesel...lol
Daren Todd
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
Massey Ferguson 1825E, Kubota Z121S, Box blade, Rotary Cutter
Options: 1 Replace the motor or the whole generator set.
I would have to be a little selfish and hold on to the diesel
Getting my hands on one is a once in a lifetime deal. Now I could probably make someone a good deal on a 6.5 horse Koehler
Last edited:
Thanks guys, well I see another misguided brain fart is not a good idea. And doing a bit of research my self it seems that the generator head might not be able to handle the lateral stress placed on the bushings buy pulley placement. But maybe if I used a short shaft and a coupler,, awww hell this is getting way out of hand. Maybe I will just pull it a part and see what hurbir firght has in the way of 10 hp motors, or maybe just bite the bullet and buy a new 10kw and forget about it
The way I would do this would be to trailer mount it and long shaft PTO drive it. Then pulley sizes and stresses are irrelevant as it all gets incorporated into the mounting frame.
Is it cost effective? Not after you count your time, effort, and blood into the cost. However, that can be said for most projects. The value comes in knowing you did it yourself and done right, it can be a joy to use and work with for years.
Add a welder onto the trailer, lights, toolboxes, etc. etc. You have a portable, PTO powered workshop.
So, if you are faced with a challenge, you can go the easy way, the so-so way, or all out crankin' way!
This guy had a hit and miss engine and built a tractor for it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRyH9GvoUdU
Is it cost effective? Not after you count your time, effort, and blood into the cost. However, that can be said for most projects. The value comes in knowing you did it yourself and done right, it can be a joy to use and work with for years.
Add a welder onto the trailer, lights, toolboxes, etc. etc. You have a portable, PTO powered workshop.
So, if you are faced with a challenge, you can go the easy way, the so-so way, or all out crankin' way!
This guy had a hit and miss engine and built a tractor for it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRyH9GvoUdU
ShaunBlake
New member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
B6100D; B219; Piranha bar; Hodge stabilizers; Filled Ag rears; R322T w/48" deck
CaveCreekRay
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L3800 HST, KingKutter box scraper, KingKutter 66" rake, County Pride Subsoiler
No muffler... Hit and Miss engines do not like backpressure!HOLY CRAP IS THAT THING LOUD!!!
Grouse Feathers
New member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
BX2370, FEL, Snowblower-BX5455, Homebuilt Forks, LP RB1560, LP GS1548
The way I would do this would be to trailer mount it and long shaft PTO drive it. Then pulley sizes and stresses are irrelevant as it all gets incorporated into the mounting frame.
Is it cost effective? Not after you count your time, effort, and blood into the cost. However, that can be said for most projects. The value comes in knowing you did it yourself and done right, it can be a joy to use and work with for years.
Add a welder onto the trailer, lights, toolboxes, etc. etc. You have a portable, PTO powered workshop.
Skeets, since you don't weld go with the trailer mount leave off the welder and tool boxes and add a beer cooler. That way you can stop and have a cool one while mowing the orchard.
So, if you are faced with a challenge, you can go the easy way, the so-so way, or all out crankin' way!
Beer cooler is certainly the all out crankin' way!
On the subject of hit n miss, I prefer this one, in a car: https://youtu.be/ULQ6196Tfds
It even has its own hit and miss starter...
It even has its own hit and miss starter...
The prairie farm report had an episode about portable shops, one was a three point cabinet with a pto generator. Welder grinder and drill press were the mounted tools, then hand tools and electric hand grinder and lights for late work.
Could do a setup for carpentry or running the household power.
Thought about something like this myself.
Could do a setup for carpentry or running the household power.
Thought about something like this myself.
Thumper the head it self is good 6kw, the motor is shot, it throw the rod through the case so its toast. As far as how much we run it, well seems when the wind blows the wrong way we loose it, and with a well, its not something that is just something to have laying around. So yes maybe 80 hours a year not much maybe but when you need it you need it. I just know I lived off that thing for 13 days 4 or 5 years ago during the winter. So yeah I need it,,,lol
Trying to tie the generator head to the tractor PTO mechanically can probably be accomplished, but...
Consider that without some form of load sensing device working from the genset output to control the tractor RPMs, every time the electrical load changes the RPM won't and you'll suffer voltage sags and brownouts and frequency problems.
Depending on your application the ratty power might work for a while. I sure wouldn't want to hook it to anything important.
The WinPower (and similar) line of PTO-driven generator sets have internal "power conditioning" controls to make the power output useable even when not controlling the tractor RPMs. They also tend to have a flywheel effect as a method of conditioning or maintaining power quality by maintaining stability of output.
For my money, and exactly what I have done, is invest in a quality name brand blue, white, or red engine-driven welding generator with plenty of auxiliary power output--perhaps 10,000+ watts on a 4-line (hot, hot, neutral, ground) 220-vac output circuit.
You'll usually get a better-to-premium engine and high-end generator head along with safeties, fuel capacity, some or a lot of real copper, and better controls and generally better quality and survivablity than a throw-away big-box-store generator. And you get another portable welder with high resale value.
We now use a 25-hp Kohler driving a red machine with 12KW aux output mounted on a wheeled carriage as a backup to the main genset. Wheel it to the transfer switch and plug it in and keep the place going while changing oil / belts on primary Shrek the Big Green Screamin' Machine (it does; could run a small hospital and has).
Get a dual-fuel or propane conversion on the engine and forget about fuel storage (or acqusition during trying times) problems. I've seen one that had an aftermarket natural gas-or-propane switch on the "carb" to use either fuel.
We're believers, having gone a record 17-days without, living on genset.
Please post back your experiences and considerations so we may all learn.
Consider that without some form of load sensing device working from the genset output to control the tractor RPMs, every time the electrical load changes the RPM won't and you'll suffer voltage sags and brownouts and frequency problems.
Depending on your application the ratty power might work for a while. I sure wouldn't want to hook it to anything important.
The WinPower (and similar) line of PTO-driven generator sets have internal "power conditioning" controls to make the power output useable even when not controlling the tractor RPMs. They also tend to have a flywheel effect as a method of conditioning or maintaining power quality by maintaining stability of output.
For my money, and exactly what I have done, is invest in a quality name brand blue, white, or red engine-driven welding generator with plenty of auxiliary power output--perhaps 10,000+ watts on a 4-line (hot, hot, neutral, ground) 220-vac output circuit.
You'll usually get a better-to-premium engine and high-end generator head along with safeties, fuel capacity, some or a lot of real copper, and better controls and generally better quality and survivablity than a throw-away big-box-store generator. And you get another portable welder with high resale value.
We now use a 25-hp Kohler driving a red machine with 12KW aux output mounted on a wheeled carriage as a backup to the main genset. Wheel it to the transfer switch and plug it in and keep the place going while changing oil / belts on primary Shrek the Big Green Screamin' Machine (it does; could run a small hospital and has).
Get a dual-fuel or propane conversion on the engine and forget about fuel storage (or acqusition during trying times) problems. I've seen one that had an aftermarket natural gas-or-propane switch on the "carb" to use either fuel.
We're believers, having gone a record 17-days without, living on genset.
Please post back your experiences and considerations so we may all learn.
All good points Stubbyie a 25kw would be much more than I would ever need but nice to have. 10kw would about all i would need for day to day living the 6kw is at the low end of what i need. This old head is pretty clean, just for shitsngiggles I brought a scope home from work and hooked it up I figured this has got to be super dirty, its not a pure swine but not real dirty either. I dont know who made the head or what the internals are like. For a while I had a cap bank from a small sub hooked up and they made things sooo nice inrush was like not even noticeable on say a motor start up.
Summer with out some power is not to bad, but winter is another matter all together. Now if I could find a 10kw diesel that I could wheel around, and afford that would be cool
Summer with out some power is not to bad, but winter is another matter all together. Now if I could find a 10kw diesel that I could wheel around, and afford that would be cool