oil for MX6000

[GeoHorn]

R

Try again. That is a MSDS (required by law) not a PDS.

Dan

Try again. I edited my previous post to clarify and identify the ingredients of SUDT2.

Give it up, Hokie. No matter what you say, think, or do…. SUDT2 is the proper fluid for Kubotas which specify it.

(Like the rest of us…you just don’t like paying for it.)

 

[TheOldHokie]

R


Try again. I edited my previous post to clarify and identify the ingredients of SUDT2.

Give it up, Hokie. No matter what you say, think, or do…. SUDT2 is the proper fluid for Kubotas which specify it.

(Like the rest of us…you just don’t like paying for it.)

Once agsan no. That is a safety data sheet. It lists the chemicsls that might pose a health or safety hazard to people or the environment. It has nothing to do with performance data.

I can give you the data of interest but your mind is set and you are not interested in really knowng the differences.

I use SUDT2 in my 4 year old L3901. I know what I am getting for that extra money and I think its worth the premium.

The garden tractors leak like a sieve and they have been switched to the TSC Traveller Premium that I used for 25+ years in the old B7200DT. I know what I gave up and its no longer worth the premium.

Dan

 

[Trash Panda]

That my friend is exactly Kubota's marketing strategy.

UDT (Universal Dynamic Tractor) oil is as generic as it gets.

SUDT is a low viscosity formulation with enhanced water tolerance. At the time of its introduction (1999) Kubota had lots of information on the new formulation. That wuickly went POOF.

If I gave you that data would it change your mind?

Dan

That all depends on the data, I suppose.

 

[GeoHorn]

Once agsan no. That is a safety data sheet. It lists the chemicsls that might pose a health or safety hazard to people or the environment. It has nothing to do with performance data.

I can give you the data of interest but your mind is set and you are not interested in really knowng the differences.

I use SUDT2 in my 4 year old L3901. I know what I am getting for that extra money and I think its worth the premium.

The garden tractors leak like a sieve and they have been switched to the TSC Traveller Premium that I used for 25+ years in the old B7200DT. I know what I gave up and its no longer worth the premium.

Dan

No…not entirely correct, . in fact, it lists the chemical….and Also point out the LACK of hazards they pose. Read the Entire document. NO “marine hazard,” etc etc.
(but don’t use it for eye-wash or personal lubircants, LOL)

 

[TheOldHokie]

No…not entirely correct, . in fact, it lists the chemical….and Also point out the LACK of hazards they pose. Read the Entire document. NO “marine hazard,” etc etc.
(but don’t use it for eye-wash or personal lubircants, LOL)

Give it up. I have read dozens of those sheets. That is material safety data required by law. It is not lube oil performance data.

Dan

 

[RCW]

Dan - generally, in your mind does an HST tip the scales toward the benefit of SUDT2?

Earlier in the thread you mentioned that a geared tractor probably isn’t worthy of the premium for SUDT2.

That has been my lay-persons understanding as well.

My 12 year old BX is an HST of course.

Never considered deviation from SUDT2. Sounds like you are in the same position with your L tractor.

For the 3 gallon capacity and long service interval, the “premium” cost is minuscule on an hourly or annual basis.

Kind of lost track, but I think I’ve changed it 3 times in 500+ hours. Well-exceeds the recommended interval.

 

[TheOldHokie]

That all depends on the data, I suppose.

Thats a super good answer. OEM's do not formulate their own oils. The develop perfromance requirements using industry test methods. They give those requirements to formulators who are free to use whatever chemical concoction they want as long as the finished oil meets or exceeds the performance requirements. Here are the basic performance requirements for UDT and SUDT.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Dan - generally, in your mind does an HST tip the scales toward the benefit of SUDT2?

Earlier in the thread you mentioned that a geared tractor probably isn’t worthy of the premium for SUDT2.

That has been my lay-persons understanding as well.

My 12 year old BX is an HST of course.

Never considered deviation from SUDT2.

For the 3 gallon capacity and long service interval, the “premium” cost is minuscule on an hourly or annual basis.

Kind of lost track, but I think I’ve changed it 3 times in 500+ hours. Well-exceeds the recommended interval.

In 1999 Kubota published a SAE Technical Paper describing in some detail their development of a new high performance SUDT oil. They motivation they gave in the intro was the more demanding requirements of HST and powershift transmissions and they were focused on three things:

1. Pumpability and filterability at very low (-40C) temperatures
2. The ability to suck up water contamination in wet environments - specifically rice paddies.
3. Wet brake and PTO chatter in the presence of water

Gear drive transmissions can obviously benefit from those improvements but not nearly as much as an HST or powershift. Bottom line is SUDT2 vz cknventional UTTO is like 5W40 full synthetic versus 15W40 conventional engine oil. Both are acceotable but one out performs the other at the margins.

Dan

 

[RCW]

In 1999 Kubota published a SAE Technical Paper describing in some detail their development of a new high performance SUDT oil. They motivation they gave in the intro was the more demanding requirements of HST and powershift transmissions and they were focused on three things:

1. Pumpability and filterability at very low (-40C) temperatures
2. The ability to suck up water contamination in wet environments - specifically rice paddies.
3. Wet brake and PTO chatter in the presence of water

Gear drive transmissions can obviously benefit from those improvements but not nearly as much as an HST or powershift. Bottom line is SUDT2 is like 5W40 full synthetic engine oil versus 15W40 conventional oil. Both work but one out performs the other at the margins.

Dan

Dan - - In the past you and others have often offered some good alternatives for gear-driven tractors. No need to re-state them in this context.

A tangent; I use my tractor for snowblower work (oftentimes more than I want).

You mention 5w-40 motor oil. I converted to Rotella T6 5w-40 years ago, and the difference in cold starts is amazing. No block heater on the tractor, and no compelling need for one.

Been using it in a couple gas engines also.

Sometimes technology does have its merits....

Thanks.

 

[Trash Panda]

Dan - - In the past you and others have often offered some good alternatives for gear-driven tractors. No need to re-state them in this context.

A tangent; I use my tractor for snowblower work (oftentimes more than I want).

You mention 5w-40 motor oil. I converted to Rotella T6 5w-40 years ago, and the difference in cold starts is amazing. No block heater on the tractor, and no compelling need for one.

Been using it in a couple gas engines also.

Sometimes technology does have its merits....

Thanks.

15w40 has been phased out of all my equipment in favor of group 4 synthetic 5w40.

The cold weather starting alone made the switch a no brainer here.

 

[TheOldHokie]

15w40 has been phased out of all my equipment in favor of group 4 synthetic 5w40.

The cold weather starting alone made the switch a no brainer here.

Good choice IMO but are you sure its Group IV.?

Today most "full synthetic" engine oils are formulated with a large fraction of Group III+ base oil and and a considerably smaller fraction of Group IV. Not that I think it matters but knowing whats actually in that bottle of "full synthetic" is another marketing mystery.

Dan

PS> Thats primarily a USA thing. Europe does not allow that labeling.

 

[Trash Panda]

Good choice IMO but are you sure its Group IV.?

Today most "full synthetic" engine oils are formulated with a large fraction of Group III+ base oil and and a considerably smaller fraction of Group IV. Not that I think it matters but knowing whats actually in that bottle of "full synthetic" is another marketing mystery.

Dan

PS> Thats primarily a USA thing. Europe does not allow that labeling.

I am quite certain that it is group 4 PAO base stock.

 

[ruger1980]

I am quite certain that it is group 4 PAO base stock.

It is basically a group 3 base stock with a touch of group 4 PAO. Like Dan said most synthetic oils in North America are a group 3 oil with modifiers..

 

[Trash Panda]

It is basically a group 3 base stock with a touch of group 4 PAO. Like Dan said most synthetic oils in North America are a group 3 oil with modifiers..

You don’t know what oil I am referring to, but I do agree that most are just churched up group 3’s.

 

[GeoHorn]

Give it up. I have read dozens of those sheets. That is material safety data required by law. It is not lube oil performance data.

Dan

The ONLY “performance data” ..I NEED…is How my Kubota does with it…. which is FINE.

But the reports of those who use cheap stuff either never come back to report….or when they do…it’s not necessarily comparative. Just because someone pours cheap stuff in and no failure occurs over the next few days or weeks, etc…. does NOT Equate to “just as good as the SUDT2”

Use what you like, Hokie. It’s Your machine. But I don’t care to tell others that You are OK with THEM taking a risk on THEIR machine.

(And also,…I’m truly not looking to argue … but you commented that SUDT was introduced in ‘99…. however my M4700DT was first purchased in ‘96 ….and Kubota specifies that the factory-fill was SUDT. Just FYI.)

 

[TheOldHokie]

The ONLY “performance data” ..I NEED…is How my Kubota does with it…. which is FINE.

But the reports of those who use cheap stuff either never come back to report….or when they do…it’s not necessarily comparative. Just because someone pours cheap stuff in and no failure occurs over the next few days or weeks, etc…. does NOT Equate to “just as good as the SUDT2”

Use what you like, Hokie. It’s Your machine. But I don’t care to tell others that You are OK with THEM taking a risk on THEIR machine.

I really dont care how you feel about what I do or dont recommend.

Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

It is basically a group 3 base stock with a touch of group 4 PAO. Like Dan said most synthetic oils in North America are a group 3 oil with modifiers..

I see even Ravenol is now selling Group III formulations while still bashing the performance

Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

Dan - generally, in your mind does an HST tip the scales toward the benefit of SUDT2?

Earlier in the thread you mentioned that a geared tractor probably isn’t worthy of the premium for SUDT2.

That has been my lay-persons understanding as well.

My 12 year old BX is an HST of course.

Never considered deviation from SUDT2. Sounds like you are in the same position with your L tractor.

For the 3 gallon capacity and long service interval, the “premium” cost is minuscule on an hourly or annual basis.

Kind of lost track, but I think I’ve changed it 3 times in 500+ hours. Well-exceeds the recommended interval.

At the risk of offending the Copyright Gods here is a snippet from the engineers at Kubota. Two things I would like to point out

1. UDT is described as "conventional lubricating oil" which is exactly what it is. Literally hundreds of functional equivalents.
2. The perfornance problem being addressed is negative inlet pressure at the HST pump and loss of HST response at cold temperatures. The solution is straightforward - an oil with lower pumping viscosity. Kubota devised their own test stand for this property but for all practical purposes a standard Brookfield viscosity works as a comparaative measure. The test temp for the original SUDT qualification test was -30C and Kubota is now publishing Brookfield results at -40C for SUDT2.

 

[TheOldHokie]

You don’t know what oil I am referring to, but I do agree that most are just churched up group 3’s.

Care to tell us what oil you are referring to?

Dan

 

[ruger1980]

You don’t know what oil I am referring to, but I do agree that most are just churched up group 3’s.

Sorry I mistook your quote including Rotella T6, which is a group 3, as what you are using. Also you would not need a ginned up group 3 as there are group 3 oils that meet the specs of many group 4 oils.