New to me B6000 (won't start)

[wapiti39]

Well I have been lurking on this forum since I bought the B6000 a couple of weeks ago now, probably time to introduce myself. I spend most my spare time hunting, cutting firewood, fishing, or Gardening with my wife in the vegetable garden. I have been wanting a little Kubota tractor for some time but have no experience with them, with the exception of the small experience I have gained over the last couple of weeks (trying the things I have learned from this forum).
I bought a little B6000 from a guy off of Craiglist one night on a whim since it seemed to good to pass up. It was late and dark by the time I met up with him and looked at the tractor by flashlight. It had a FEL and Tiller (missing the gear box on the tiller itself, hopefully they are not to impossible to find?) it is 4wheel drive and appeared to be in good shape. He told me it needed a battery and probably some new glow plugs. He had me pull start the tractor with my truck and it started right up and ran great (from my novice perspective that is). Since then I have pulled it into my shop and replaced the glow plugs (again thanks to this forum for help) and gave it a new battery ( out of a spare truck I have outback) and replaced the fuel filter in the housing (not the inline fuel filter yet). I did pick up new oil for the engine and new Kubota hydraulic fluid as well to change them all out, but not until I can get it started. Long story short I cannot get her to fire up, I have to assume the compression is fine since it pull started? Glow plugs registered a little over 9.5 volts when I checked them with my volt/ohm meter. I did my best to bleed the injector fuel lines (not sure what volume of fluid to expect to spurt out around the fittings when they are loosened while bleeding?) Glow plug indicator glows nicely. I have noticed when I changed the fuel filter that the lever on the housing that I would assume shuts off the fuel most certainly did "not"do that while I was changing the filter out? Is this normal? Anyways not entirely sure what to look for next at this point? I thought I would draw on all of your experience and knowledge to point this tractor newbie in the right direction. I greatly appreciate your time and input. This forum is amazing and very addicting to read all the posts and see everyone's tractors and hard work.

 

[Eric McCarthy]

Welcome to the club, hope you stay awhile and some day provide some incite for others.

First thing I can think of is how old is the fuel in the tank? You mentioned replacing the filter but I wasn't clear if you put in fresh fuel. If not and you're still running on old trash fuel drain the tank and put in fresh diesel.

When you crack the injectors to bleed out the air you're just trying to get the air bubbles out of the system so no real major amounts of fuel will come spewing out. Once you see that the bubbles have stopped and there is a constant drip of fluid then your good.

 

[kc8fbl]

I would put in some fresh fuel maybe with a little seafoam just to help dry anything out that may be in there still. It's sounding like you may have a little bit of air still in the system.

Welcome to OTT! It's taught me quite a bit too!

 

[wapiti39]

Thank you all for the warm welcome and advice thus far. I have never seen an additive called sea foam, wonder if its a brand name used more regionally or something, basically a fuel treatment/water remover I would assume? I never saw any bubbles coming out of the injector just a small amount of drips that did appear to be in time with the engine turning over, so I would assume that is the correct amount at this point. In regards to fuel I did add some fresh last night before I bled the injectors (most of the old fuel was dumped on my shop floor when I changed the fuel filter, still not sure how to shut off the fuel from the tank side of things?) and it didn't seem to make a difference. I think I will try and remove the tank and flush, and fill with the new fuel as soon as I see how to shut off the flow from the tank that is . Again thank you all for the advice and I also hope to be able to contribute some day here as well. I will keep all posted on the hoped progress. Thanks.

 

[birddogger]

Start by cleaning/tightening the 4 ends of the 2 battery cables. Clean the battery posts. Inspect the cables' insulation sheaths for signs of swelling that would indicate internal corrosion of the copper conductor.
Then to starting sequence, glow the plugs for 5 or 10 seconds of glow at the indicator "light". Quickly then pull the compression release ("L" shaped rod), spin the starter for barely a second (till maximum revs is heard) then release the compression release rod. Crank only for less than 5 seconds, allow 10 seconds of "off" time for every 5 seconds of cranking. repeat.

 

[phildac]

Wapiti39,

Since you are new to these tractors, I guess we should check the obvious/dumb things we have all done once or twice. Check the fuel shutoff knob that kills fuel flow that is used to shut the engine off. Usually looks like a round choke lever with a red knob on it. Usually on the opposite side of the compression release lever. on my B8200 you can see the red fuel shutoff lever on the right and the black decompression lever on the left. Probably different on the B6000 but should give u a general idea.

While you are cranking, are you getting any kind of smoke coming out the exhaust? You should probably see some greyish black or white smoke coming out after a few seconds or so of cranking. If not, I would have to guess it's not getting fuel. Also, when you turned the shut-off valve lever on the fuel filter canister 90 degrees to shut it off and it didn't, possibly the o-ring for that valve has come apart or loose and has plugged up the line or valve passage.

I believe you said that you turned the valve both ways while the filter canister and filter was off and it didn't seem to make a difference in stopping the fuel flow. I would start looking there possibly.

If your fuel canister valve is a screw in type that takes several turns instead of 1/4 turn, some of the info above might not be relevant.

Hope this helps...

 

[gpreuss]

If you pull started it and it ran, there really should not be a lot wrong. Mostly, whatever you did to it. This is not criticism; I screw up a lot of stuff. Probably, most of us do.
I would expect 12 volts at the glow plugs - follow Birddogger's advice and clean the battery cables, and check the switches.
Since you sound handy, try running some jumpers straight from the battery to the glow plugs. You don't need to hurry - they just get redder. The tractor will run fine with them still on for a while.
When it was running, there was no air in the fuel line. Changing filters, etc may have put some there.
I have never had to use the compression release, in over 35 years. I wouldn't hesitate to, but haven't needed it. If my battery was strong, it would start. If it was weak, I'd have to jump it.
Let us know how you make out!

 

[kubotasam]

If you are getting around 9 volts to the glow plugs then that is the correct voltage. The job of the glow plug indicator is actually a resistor that drops the 12 - 13 volts of the battery down to around 9 volts. Did you bleed the injector pump before you bled the lines to the injectors?

 

[Bulldog]

I'm going to assume your 6000 is like my old 7100 was. Where the fuel line hooked to the injector pump the bolt was hollow. I could loosen it just a little and then crank the engine over and after just a second or so fuel would squirt out around the bolt. Tighten it back up and it would crank every time. I ran out of fuel several times and after bleeding the air out like this I never had to loosen a injector line. It would start every time. Maybe I was lucky but it worked for me.

 

[MagKarl]

How long are you engaging the glow plugs? My tractor needs a minimum of 30 seconds in the summer, and more like a minute in the winter in order to fire on a cold start.

Are your transmission and PTO shifters in neutral, and clutch depressed if you have a clutch start cancel switch? Does your seat have a safety switch?

I'm with the other guys, if it ran when you bought it, it's got to be something simple.

 

[wapiti39]

Wow! Once again thanks for all the valuable info and insight, I have several things to try tomorrow to get her to fire up. I did forget some info that you all just reminded me with your responses. First thing I forgot to mention was the compression lever is missing entirely, hopefully they are not too difficult to track down to replace, secondly the Bolt you mentioned Bulldog I did have to remove while replacing the glow plugs, I assumed they were a breather line of some sorts since the fuel lines from the injector pump were steel ( the line feeding to the bolt you mentioned is rubber on mine) and runs back to the top of the fuel tank. Also I did not think to bleed the injector pump itself, not entirely sure how one would go about such a thing? Pardon the rookie questions first tractor and first diesel I have ever worked on (my truck is a cummins diesel but thus far have not had to do any repairs on it.) I do get smoke out of the exhaust when cranking, kinda a Grey/white smoke so as mentioned I would assume fuel was reaching cylinder. That is a valid point as well on the fuel filter housing, I may remove it and look for the o-ring issue. One other thing that may be worth mentioning is one of the two injector fuel line fittings is fairly rounded off as from many wrenching in the past, wondering if this was a common occurrence for the previous owners. Thanks again for everyone's insight and knowledge, I will keep you all posted with the results from my trials and errors.

 

[Bulldog]

Wapiti39, the line I was refering to is a rubber hose that comes from the fuel filter and goes to the injector pump. My old 7100 had a hollow bolt here and the line had a metal fitting the bolt went thru. If I loosesed it up and spun the engine over a couple times it would squirt fuel out and if I didn't watch it close it would crank even with the line loose. I always had a wrench handy to tighten it up if this happened.

If your getting smoke when you're cranking on it I would say that MagKarl is on to something about the glow plug heating time. My 7100 was real hard to start in the winter. If it was down cold it would take at least 1 minute or even more before it would fire up. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[wapiti39]

Thank you all, I have been engaging the glow plugs for probably a good minute or more. The indicator on the dash is blazing away. Maybe I need to give it more time huh? It is cold here but not bad really, around 20 to 30 probably on average when I have tried starting it. I am also thinking its something simple since it ran with the pull start.

 

[kubotasam]

Have you tried pull starting it again? If it pull starts now, that would eliminate the fuel issue for the non start.

 

[Apogee]

Welcome to the forum.

I would suggest a couple of things:

1. - Diesels need a good battery. Not just an ok battery. Make sure it's good and fully charged. If it's cranking slow, it'll be really hard to start and you are just wasting your time.

2. NEVER use starting fluid on a Kubota no matter how tempting. You will crack pistons with it.

3. I'd bleed the entire injection system. This is most likely the problem. Need to check the O-ring on the filter, bleed the pump, then bleed each injector.

4. If all else fails and it simply won't start again, you will need to do a compression check on it. On a diesel, low compression is the #1 reason for hard starts (besides bad glow plugs).

4. Buy a factory manual. Best $$$ you will spend on the little beast.

Good luck and Merry Christmas,

Steve

 

[motorhead]

Pull starting an engine generally turns it over a lot faster than the starter will. I would be VERY careful if you repeat this so you don't damage the transmission.
Diesels are real fussy about two major things...Air in the injection system and good compression. Both of these are real important for good starting.
I would first crack the injector lines, pull the throttle to full speed, pull the compression release and turn the engine until fuel squirts from the injector unions at the injectors. Don't run the starter for long periods to avoid overheating it. Putting the throttle at full speed allows the fuel to flow faster to the injectors. Pulling the compression release puts less load on the starter and allows the engine to turn faster.

If it won't start with the starter after the fuel system is bleed then I would check the valve clearance. I have worked on many diesels and if the clearance is tight the engine will be hard starting due to compression leak down. Many old diesel Mercedes that I worked on that were fussy COLD starters were remedied after a proper valve adjustment if the valves were tight.

Easiest way to find top dead center ready to fire for each cylinder so you can adjust the valve clearance on that cylinder is as follows.

With the valve cover removed turn the engine the direction of operation and watch the valve train. When you see one of the exhaust rocker arms just closing and the intake rocker arm just start to open ON THE SAME CYLINDER, then stop turning the engine. Make a mark on the crankshaft pulley relative to a stationary point on the front of the engine. Now turn the engine ONE FULL REVOLUTION and stop at the mark you made. That cylinder is now at Top Dead Center read to fire and is in the right position to adjust the valves or at least check for clearance. Repeat this procedure with the other two cylinders. I am not sure of the clearance for the B6000 engine. Someone will pipe in with that.
LET US KNOW WHAT YOU FIND.

 

[wapiti39]

Motorhead thanks for the detailed info on the valve adjustments, I will probably look into that tomorrow. A couple of thoughts I had thanks to everyone on here. There was mention of the PTO being in neutral, I believe that is the lever to the left of the shifter below my seat (stickers are all but worn off) and I would assume neutral is when the lever is pulled all the way back towards the rear of the tractor since number 3 (the only sticker not worn off there)is all the way forward? Anyone know differently or can confirm by chance? Also I noticed the hydraulic fluid level(also used as the rear end and tranny fluid I believe?) is very low and milky, I planned on changing this once I was able to get the tractor running ( I have purchased the fluid already for this step) however I was curious if possibly there is a low oil shut off on these that may be causing my starting issue? Probably just a grasp in the air I am sure. but felt it was worth mentioning. Thanks

 

[Bulldog]

If I'm thinking right the pto has three speeds and a neutral position in between each of the three speeds. Milky fluid sounds like water in the oil. May be leaking in around the gear shifter boot. Unless I'm way off base these tractors do not have a low oil shutoff.

 

[Piker]

On my 1980 B7100 with 3 PTO speeds, all the way back is 540 RPM, Neutral is the next position forward. However, shouldn't have any bearing on not starting as long as clutch is depressed.

 

[wapiti39]

Quick update on the progress (maybe?) I feel fairly confident I have bled the entire fuel system and I am receiving fuel for sure. Also the exhaust when it turns over is a grayish/dark color so I believe I am getting the fuel. The glow plugs are getting a steady 9.5 to 10 volts when I check the heads of them. I changed the inline fuel filter as well and the fuel seems fresh that is flowing. I just purchased a new and sized appropriately battery that I am going to try this weekend and see if that helps.I just ordered the lever missing from my decompression valve to give that a Try and a new valve cover gasket in case I have to go that route. Also found a local source for a factory owners/parts manual for $18.00 I was pretty jacked about that deal. I will be reading thoroughly over the weekend. I will update if any progress. Thanks again for everyone's insight and suggestions thus far.