New to diesel -- what don't I know?

[BobInSD]

I grew up around gas engines and know how to do anything required there. I did not grow up around tractors, except for very occasionally using a Kubota in my construction jobs. I was in my late 30s by the time I moved out of town and got a tractor, but up until now I've had gas tractors (figuring I would know how to fix them and thinking they'd be a better choice for 1 hour at a time use in the winter, start better in the winter, etc).

Now I have a diesel Kubota and am in need of a "Diesel for Dummies" type tutorial.

Questions so far:

Glow plugs: I was told to turn the key until the glow plug light goes out, then fire it up. I was also told to not use the glowplugs in the summer or for too long at a time. Which is is?

Warm ups: If I start the gas tractor in cold weather I wait until it stops sounding like a diesel before I move it and then wait until the temp gauge at least moves off the peg to do any work. I also had analog temp gauges till now, so I could see smaller changes. My (L5740) has 8 bars on the temp guage, and so far rides with 4 illuminated most of the time. Do I need to wait for 2 bars? All 4? When can I start working it? When is it safe to move to hook up an implement or back out of the shed. Keep in mind I may be talking 15 or 20 F below 0. (I do have a block heater). Even at 70 yesterday morning is didn't sound as clean when expermented and didn't wait for the glow plug.

Cool downs: I was taught to idle the tractor for awhile before shutting down. If I am working my small Ford I can see the temp gauge fall after awhile, and shut it off then. The Kubota is going to stay at 4 bars, so how long should I idle it for? If I shut it off right away and turn in on 5 minutes later it will leap to 5 bars, if I idle it for longer I don't think it will jump over 4.

Fuel Gelling: I vaguely get the concept of winter fuel and gelling. I assume there's something I can add to the summer fuel to prevent this (say I have half a tank and get caught by surprise--this tractor won't get a lot of hours and I"m OCD about not having too much air in the tank). The old guys use kerosine, but I'm guessing there's a more sophisticated option? [I haven't even looked into this yet, so it's probably obvious]

That's what I know I don't know. I'm sure there's much more. What am I missing?

Thanks,

 

[Bmyers]

First off, I'm not an expert, my general response it to refer to your owner's manual (okay, legal stuff out of the way).

Glow plugs. My tractor and most likely your tractor (see manual) the glow plug light will not come on when it is warm and the glow plug isn't needed. My tractor the glow plug indicator comes on and I wait for it to go off and then I start the engine in the winter time.

Warm up: you manual will give you how long you should allow the tractor to warm up based on temp. The colder, the longer.

Cool downs: If you have a turbo, to my understanding this is more important.

Fuel geling: You are opening a can of worms, everyone has there favorite additive. Some have a version for winter, some have a version for summer, some use the same stuff all year round. I decided on Stabil All Season Diesel additive so i use the same stuff all year.

Much more knowledgeable people than I will be along to explain in detail.

 

[chim]

Make sure the engine oil has the "C" rating and weight recommended by the manual.

Warm up - In Summer I start and run it at a low RPM and go a hundred yards or so before engaging the mower. In Winter I wait till there's a bar or two showing before doing anything more than a gentle low RPM drive.

Mine doesn't seem to cool down very much, but I do let it idle for a couple minutes.

I've used a two or three different antigel additives and they all worked. We don't see much below 0*F here. I also use an algae additive.

 

[D2Cat]

Bob, on your tractor in weather like we're having now, when you turn the key to the ON position the GP light will light up, but it will be out before you know what it is unless you're looking at it and for it!! Your tractor has sensors that tell IT how long to have the GP's on. So, just turn the key to the ON position and when the GP light goes out, turn the key to Start position.

Warm ups....your manual will tell you times to wait before using the HST. The fluids need to be warm enough to flow and do their jobs. So winter time requires more planning and patience. Like fire it up anmd go make your coffee and drink a cup!! Summer time I usually wait 2 or 3 minutes before I roll the tractor at all, then slowly get an implement hooked up and get to the location of doing some work.

Cool Downs.... kinda like any engine, it's better to let it idle for a minute or so before turning off. As mentioned earlier, if you have a turbo it's more important to let it cool down.

Fuel Gelling.... there's additives to can supplement your fuel with. Most important is timing of purchase of fuel in the fall. When you know cold temps are just around the corner don't fill up with summer blend fuel and have a tank that will need more treatment for winter because of it. Check with your supplier as to when they get winter treated fuel and try to have a low fuel level just before you fill it with winter blend. You may still need some anti-gel additive being in South Dakota.

On fuel, keep your fuel filter clean, get fuel from a busy station in your area (provides a good turn around of fuel used, and shows others use their product without troubles.) Some use a fungicide in the fuel, Lot of products available.

You have a nice tractor. Enjoy it!!

 

[Mark_BX25D]

Bob, one thing that hasn't been mentioned is water in the fuel. That will stop you.

However you manage your fuel supply, make sure it includes some provision for filtering out water.

I don't know how much fuel you expect to burn, but if you plan to have a tank and have fuel delivered, bite the bullet and install a good quality pump with a series of filters. The ideal setup is a coarse sediment filter first, followed by a water blocking, and finer filter next.

By the way, home heating oil and diesel #2 are exactly the same thing. I don't mean they are interchangeable, I mean they come out of the same tank at the refinery and just get sold through different channels.

If you have winter blends in your area there may be some differences, but probably not.

If you are going the 5 gallon can route, look into a funnel that filters water. They work.

By the way, a word about turbos: The reason for idling a bit when you shut down a turbo engine is, the turbo will be spinning at high speed when the engine is running. If you just roll into the shed and immediately kill the engine, the oil pump will stop pumping when the engine stops, but the turbine will still be spinning. It's not hard to see why this is a bad plan. How important this is will depend on how big your turbo is. These days, they are pretty small and light compared to yesteryear, so they stop pretty quickly. Some of us are probalby familar with Army deuce and a halfs, and those turbos went for a few minutes.

 

[Clt1bkc]

I grew up around gas engines and know how to do anything required there. I did not grow up around tractors, except for very occasionally using a Kubota in my construction jobs. I was in my late 30s by the time I moved out of town and got a tractor, but up until now I've had gas tractors (figuring I would know how to fix them and thinking they'd be a better choice for 1 hour at a time use in the winter, start better in the winter, etc).

Now I have a diesel Kubota and am in need of a "Diesel for Dummies" type tutorial.

Questions so far:

Glow plugs: I was told to turn the key until the glow plug light goes out, then fire it up. I was also told to not use the glowplugs in the summer or for too long at a time. Which is is?

Warm ups: If I start the gas tractor in cold weather I wait until it stops sounding like a diesel before I move it and then wait until the temp gauge at least moves off the peg to do any work. I also had analog temp gauges till now, so I could see smaller changes. My (L5740) has 8 bars on the temp guage, and so far rides with 4 illuminated most of the time. Do I need to wait for 2 bars? All 4? When can I start working it? When is it safe to move to hook up an implement or back out of the shed. Keep in mind I may be talking 15 or 20 F below 0. (I do have a block heater). Even at 70 yesterday morning is didn't sound as clean when expermented and didn't wait for the glow plug.

Cool downs: I was taught to idle the tractor for awhile before shutting down. If I am working my small Ford I can see the temp gauge fall after awhile, and shut it off then. The Kubota is going to stay at 4 bars, so how long should I idle it for? If I shut it off right away and turn in on 5 minutes later it will leap to 5 bars, if I idle it for longer I don't think it will jump over 4.

Fuel Gelling: I vaguely get the concept of winter fuel and gelling. I assume there's something I can add to the summer fuel to prevent this (say I have half a tank and get caught by surprise--this tractor won't get a lot of hours and I"m OCD about not having too much air in the tank). The old guys use kerosine, but I'm guessing there's a more sophisticated option? [I haven't even looked into this yet, so it's probably obvious]

That's what I know I don't know. I'm sure there's much more. What am I missing?

Thanks,

Straight from owners manual on warm up

 

[dneal]

Glow plugs: I was told to turn the key until the glow plug light goes out, then fire it up. I was also told to not use the glowplugs in the summer or for too long at a time. Which is is?

Diesel has a much higher flash point than gasoline, and uses compression to ignite. Compression ratios that would cause detonation in a gas engine are "standard" in diesels.

Because of this, diesels have glow plugs that heat the combustion chambers. How long to use them? Depends. I don't know about your model. Some have a glow plug controller that takes care of it. Light goes out, start the engine. Some (like mine) will cycle the plugs until they burn out. In the summer, I cycle my glow plugs for 2-3 seconds the first time I start the tractor. In the winter, maybe 5-7 seconds. If the tractor doesn't start (and makes lots of white smoke out the exhaust), the combustion chamber isn't warm enough.

Think of it kind of light a starter. If you continue to crank an engine that won't start, you'll burn out the starter. You crank the engine in "bursts". Same for glow plugs. Short cycle, crank engine. Doesn't start? Short cycle, crank engine again.

Warm ups: If I start the gas tractor in cold weather I wait until it stops sounding like a diesel before I move it and then wait until the temp gauge at least moves off the peg to do any work. I also had analog temp gauges till now, so I could see smaller changes. My (L5740) has 8 bars on the temp guage, and so far rides with 4 illuminated most of the time. Do I need to wait for 2 bars? All 4? When can I start working it? When is it safe to move to hook up an implement or back out of the shed. Keep in mind I may be talking 15 or 20 F below 0. (I do have a block heater). Even at 70 yesterday morning is didn't sound as clean when expermented and didn't wait for the glow plug.

Your HST tractor is essentially a hydraulic system powered by a diesel engine. Sure the engine needs to warm up, but it's more important that the hydraulic fluid has warmed. It's flowing as long as the engine is running, and it's being warmed from compression, friction, etc... Your block heater isn't doing a lot to help this, and its main point is to keep the engine oil warm enough to prevent damage (and help reduce the strain on the glow plugs).

The geared portions of your tractor need to move in order to warm. Once the engine and hydraulics have warmed, the tractor needs to be driven conservatively for a period of time. This is just like your car. You can let the engine idle for 30 minutes in the winter, but the rear end and transmission haven't warmed up because you haven't been driving it.

Cool downs: I was taught to idle the tractor for awhile before shutting down. If I am working my small Ford I can see the temp gauge fall after awhile, and shut it off then. The Kubota is going to stay at 4 bars, so how long should I idle it for? If I shut it off right away and turn in on 5 minutes later it will leap to 5 bars, if I idle it for longer I don't think it will jump over 4.

A lot of that is old turbo advice. If you've been running the tractor hard for an extended period of time, maybe letting it idle for a minute or so is beneficial; but there's a thermostat and cooling system that only lets the tractor get so hot... What do you do to an engine that's overheating? Let it idle or shut it off? Food for thought...

Fuel Gelling: I vaguely get the concept of winter fuel and gelling. I assume there's something I can add to the summer fuel to prevent this (say I have half a tank and get caught by surprise--this tractor won't get a lot of hours and I"m OCD about not having too much air in the tank). The old guys use kerosine, but I'm guessing there's a more sophisticated option? [I haven't even looked into this yet, so it's probably obvious]

There are winter additives you can add to summer fuel. Your feed store / ag supply / etc... have it. Your gas station might as well.

 

[Russell King]

And be sure to always use diesel fuel, there have been instances where new users accidentally put gas into their diesel tank.

Since you have been using gas tractors you may have a tendency to say “needs gas” instead of “needs fuel” and pick up the red gas can instead of a yellow diesel fuel can. I suggest that you get yellow cans or paint them yellow. Justrite cans are nice

 

[Mark_BX25D]

I suggest that you get yellow cans or paint them yellow. Justrite cans are nice

Oh yes, oh yes, oh yes!

Do yourself a favor. This is no place to go cheap. Buy some yellow diesel cans. Yeah, I know they aren't cheap these days.

Consider this: Destroying an engine will make TEN new diesel cans look like FREE in comparison.

Don't play with this. Get the right cans!

 

[D2Cat]

Another thought on diesel. Get in the habit of always referring to the fuel as DIESEL. Some say, "I put some gas in my tractor", or refer to gas in others sentences." It can be subtle, but if it's kept up someone eventually puts GAS in the diesel fuel tank.

 

[BobInSD]

Thank you all. I appreciate the help from everybody. Especially:

Bob, one thing that hasn't been mentioned is water in the fuel. ...

If you are going the 5 gallon can route, look into a funnel that filters water. They work.

Thanks, I will get one.

... a word about turbos: The reason for idling a bit when you shut down a turbo engine is ...

I had not even considered this. Thanks.

Straight from owners manual on warm up

Dohp! I have that manual and have no excuse for not reading it before asking. Thank you,

Your HST tractor is essentially a hydraulic system powered by a diesel engine. Sure the engine needs to warm up, but it's more important that the hydraulic fluid has warmed. It's flowing as long as the engine is running, and it's being warmed from compression, friction, etc... Your block heater isn't doing a lot to help this, and its main point is to keep the engine oil warm enough to prevent damage (and help reduce the strain on the glow plugs).

This I'm somewhat familiar with (I refer to my 3020 as a "hydraulic pump with wheels". No stock option to destoke when starting meant you had to try to crank 15 gpm of -10 F hydraulic fluid while turning over the engine.) and also with my old Farmall M with the PTO driven pump. In cold weather you had to start it and keep the clutch in for a few minutes, then let it idle with the clutch out in neutral, then engage the PTO and let it idle some more before going out to push snow.

The geared portions of your tractor need to move in order to warm. Once the engine and hydraulics have warmed, the tractor needs to be driven conservatively for a period of time. This is just like your car. You can let the engine idle for 30 minutes in the winter, but the rear end and transmission haven't warmed up because you haven't been driving it.

Also good advice, thanks.

And be sure to always use diesel fuel, there have been instances where new users accidentally put gas into their diesel tank.

Since you have been using gas tractors you may have a tendency to say “needs gas” instead of “needs fuel” and pick up the red gas can instead of a yellow diesel fuel can. I suggest that you get yellow cans or paint them yellow. Justrite cans are nice

Oh yes, oh yes, oh yes!

Do yourself a favor. This is no place to go cheap. Buy some yellow diesel cans. Yeah, I know they aren't cheap these days.

Consider this: Destroying an engine will make TEN new diesel cans look like FREE in comparison.

Don't play with this. Get the right cans!

Another thought on diesel. Get in the habit of always referring to the fuel as DIESEL. Some say, "I put some gas in my tractor", or refer to gas in others sentences." It can be subtle, but if it's kept up someone eventually puts GAS in the diesel fuel tank.

This is a concern. I've had to drive the tractor on the road to get some tire work done and actually stopped by a gas filling station to top off the tank. I told my wife I had stopped for gas and then immediately corrected to "fuel". I'm extremily cheap frugal, but was going to get a couple of yellow cans (and also maybe paint and/or cover some old cans with yellow duct tape). I convinced myself the "no spill" $35 cans would be worth the premium over the $12 cans with the asinine spouts. I've already converted my spare gas cans to have an old-school spout and vent but do not want to get gas in the orange tractor!!

 

[Mark_BX25D]

And be sure to always use diesel fuel, there have been instances where new users accidentally put gas into their diesel tank.

Since you have been using gas tractors you may have a tendency to say “needs gas” instead of “needs fuel” and pick up the red gas can instead of a yellow diesel fuel can. I suggest that you get yellow cans or paint them yellow. Justrite cans are nice

This post ought to be a sticky!

Yeah, words matter!

 

[Timmer92]

Not sure what part of the country you are in, but up here in Minnesota I learned a couple of times that the winter blend diesel doesn't mean it won't gel. I use Power Service additive (white bottle) to my diesel cans, and the couple of times I gelled up I used the 911 (red bottle).

 

[pokey1416]

This post ought to be a sticky!

Yeah, words matter!

I agree.....I store my diesel (yellow) containers near tractor and my gasoline (red) are on the other side of garage on a lower shelf out of view. Had the wife label the yellow ones DIESEL too.

 

[Tughill Tom]

All good points and advice. Just one more NEVER EVER use Starting Fluid. It will go BOOM in a bad way fast.

 

[BobInSD]

Not sure what part of the country you are in, but up here in Minnesota I learned a couple of times that the winter blend diesel doesn't mean it won't gel. I use Power Service additive (white bottle) to my diesel cans, and the couple of times I gelled up I used the 911 (red bottle).

This is what I was looking to find out about. This will be a low-hour use tractor, especially in the fall. I like to keep the tank full and plenty of extra on hand, so I need something to add to the august fuel so it'll still work in November.

I assume that it's ok to put the summer snake oil in and then add the winter stuff if the fuel is still around when it gets cooler?


Is there any reason to not idle sporadically? For example, if I'm hopping off to adjust blade angle, or even run back to the barn for an oil can? I do work around diesel generators and they worry about wet stacking from running at reduced load. My habit with the gassers is to idle it down if I'm not working it-quieter, less fuel usage, easier on the engine?

 

[Mark_BX25D]

I have seen many discussions on "wet-stacking" on other sites. Many have pointed out that big rigs routinely idle all night with no ill effects. (Well, they used to before the EPA got all excited about it.) I don't recall the specifics, but others have pointed out that idling diesels is pretty normal in other fields, too. I know it's done a lot with trains (my dad was a trainman).


I would rather idle for a few minutes than do a bunch of stop/start cycles.

 

[BobInSD]

I would rather idle for a few minutes than do a bunch of stop/start cycles.

I agree, and I don't see how leaving it at full throttle can be a good idea. Just wanted to make sure I'm not missing anything!

 

[Timmer92]

I assume that it's ok to put the summer snake oil in and then add the winter stuff if the fuel is still around when it gets cooler?

I'm no expert. I have a buddy that is a foreman on a big machine crew (cranes, bull dozers, etc) and he stated not too worry about putting Power Service product in over another, or adding it to diesel that is already treated, or is already a winter blend. Others may wish to chime in differently.

 

[troverman]

As a "general rule," don't idle you tractor a ton. But I think nothing of idling my tractor for 2 hours just to run lighting, and mine has a DPF. I idle my diesel pickup too. It clogs up the DPF sooner, but your tractor doesn't have a DPF (lucky you) so nothing to worry about. In cold weather, I'd bring the idle up a few hundred RPM.