Just curious about the emissions setup on these Kubota's, at what percentage do they tell you to regen? If they are sitting there running a pump or a generator and need a regen do you have to go shut off the pto and let them regen or will they just do it? It says in the manual for a parked regen to have the pto off so is that a recommendation or will it not do the regen otherwise? It would be a bit of a problem if I was running a pto pump on a frost and had to shut it off for 15 mins to regen. Or if I was running the generator in an outage to keep the greenhouses warm and it had to be shut off for 15 mins. I read a bit of the manual about it but am still not 100% sure how the regen stuff works.
New MSN-091, curious of things.
- Thread starter Shadow_storm56
- Start date
Oh and one added thing, this my first ever kubota tractor and my first ever machine with the emissions system on it. Sofar it seems great! Only flaw which I hope is easy to fix is that when I shift into 5th gear it hits the little range shift stick and knocks me into neutral. Gear shift and range shift stick bump and then I'm in neutral
there are 2 kinds of regens
passive and active
passive regen just regens when it wants to while you work so long as the rpm is held high enough
active regen is when you didn't let it do the passive regens and it "wants" a parked regen
Parked regen is when you ignore/forget/don't see/hear the beepers and blinking lights in the dash for x amount of time (actually it has to do with particulate matter buildup not time). At that point a light with a P in it will flash in the dash. You mash the parked regen button which should also be flashing, make sure the pto is off, transmission in neutral and park brake set. It will automatically rev the engine to wherever it wants, then does it's regeneration thing, then returns to whatever throttle setting you had it before you mashed the button.
while in parked regen don't touch anything don't mess with the throttle or anything, just let it do it's thing until the lights are off and/or beeper's done beeping and/or returns to idle.
don't worry about it you can't hurt it
there are several levels of soot. Level 1, level 2, 2.5, 3, 3.5, 4 and 5. There is also an in between, kinda between 4 and 5. But if you get to 4, you will have to call the dealer anyway so don't even put much thought into it.
Level 1 and 2 you can do a passive regen, in other words you can regen while working and not have to do anything. Lights come on, and stay on steady, as long as RPM is high enough they will go out once the regen is done. If not high enough rpm, there's a light in the dash with an arrow pointing up. Rev the engine to full throttle and let it do it's thing til them lights go out
2.5 you will get a beep, but you can still do a passive regen. It'll generally beep every 5 seconds. Some folks are hard of hearing and can't hear the beeper, and that's a challenge that nobody at Kubota ever thought about apparently (or Deere for that matter). Lights in dash are still flashing.
level 3, beep every 3 seconds. Some reduction in engine power.
3.5, beep every 3 seconds, parked regen only. 25% reduction in power which is significant.
4, 50% reduction in power, code in the dash, seldomly allowed to do a parked regen, beep every second. If it won't do a parked regen dealer will have to FORCE a regen--if it will allow it (depends on the sensors' readings)
4.5 and 5 call the dealer the dpf if plugged and cannot be regenerated normally the dpf has to be removed physically from the tractor then cleaned manually.
now then maintanenance. There is really no special maintenance to be done on any dpf equipped diesel. However, maintenance is going to be more critical. You ain't gonna get by with 500 hour oil changes. If the book says 400, start thinking about it at 200. The air filter needs to be clean. Need to use the CORRECT engine oil (which most of them are ok to use with dpf now). You cannot overfill the oil, you can't turn the tractor on it's side or roll it over, it will fill the dpf with oil and it won't regen...has to be taken off and baked out or just replaced. Fuel quality is a big issue, has to be good clean and fresh diesel. Old diesel (remember when it was thought that diesel did not really get "OLD"??)....doesn't burn quite as well, and will slowly fill the dpf with garbage. Water. Water in the fuel will absolutely destroy the high pressure pump (called supply pump) and the injectors. Zero water should be allowed in the fuel, and I mean none, not 1%, has to be zero%. That in itself has been a big issue around here with fuel stations keeping thousands of gallons of off-road fuel in their underground tanks, condensation is rampant as is just water in general. YOu want to buy road fuel and from a station that sells a lot of it, so it's always fresh and always checked for moisture (usually not much in there if they run through a lot of fuel). Keep the fuel filters fresh/replaced and keep the separator nice and clean.
You also have DEF to look out for, do not ever put diesel in the def tank, not even one drop. One drop of diesel in the def tank will destroy the def header assembly (part down inside the tank), lines, def injector, etc. Expensive mistake to make, don't do it--ever. Def goes bad over time so if your tractor sits, you may have to replace it once in a while. The tractor will tell you when it's bad, it has a sensor.
Aside from that, nothing to it.
passive and active
passive regen just regens when it wants to while you work so long as the rpm is held high enough
active regen is when you didn't let it do the passive regens and it "wants" a parked regen
Parked regen is when you ignore/forget/don't see/hear the beepers and blinking lights in the dash for x amount of time (actually it has to do with particulate matter buildup not time). At that point a light with a P in it will flash in the dash. You mash the parked regen button which should also be flashing, make sure the pto is off, transmission in neutral and park brake set. It will automatically rev the engine to wherever it wants, then does it's regeneration thing, then returns to whatever throttle setting you had it before you mashed the button.
while in parked regen don't touch anything don't mess with the throttle or anything, just let it do it's thing until the lights are off and/or beeper's done beeping and/or returns to idle.
don't worry about it you can't hurt it
there are several levels of soot. Level 1, level 2, 2.5, 3, 3.5, 4 and 5. There is also an in between, kinda between 4 and 5. But if you get to 4, you will have to call the dealer anyway so don't even put much thought into it.
Level 1 and 2 you can do a passive regen, in other words you can regen while working and not have to do anything. Lights come on, and stay on steady, as long as RPM is high enough they will go out once the regen is done. If not high enough rpm, there's a light in the dash with an arrow pointing up. Rev the engine to full throttle and let it do it's thing til them lights go out
2.5 you will get a beep, but you can still do a passive regen. It'll generally beep every 5 seconds. Some folks are hard of hearing and can't hear the beeper, and that's a challenge that nobody at Kubota ever thought about apparently (or Deere for that matter). Lights in dash are still flashing.
level 3, beep every 3 seconds. Some reduction in engine power.
3.5, beep every 3 seconds, parked regen only. 25% reduction in power which is significant.
4, 50% reduction in power, code in the dash, seldomly allowed to do a parked regen, beep every second. If it won't do a parked regen dealer will have to FORCE a regen--if it will allow it (depends on the sensors' readings)
4.5 and 5 call the dealer the dpf if plugged and cannot be regenerated normally the dpf has to be removed physically from the tractor then cleaned manually.
now then maintanenance. There is really no special maintenance to be done on any dpf equipped diesel. However, maintenance is going to be more critical. You ain't gonna get by with 500 hour oil changes. If the book says 400, start thinking about it at 200. The air filter needs to be clean. Need to use the CORRECT engine oil (which most of them are ok to use with dpf now). You cannot overfill the oil, you can't turn the tractor on it's side or roll it over, it will fill the dpf with oil and it won't regen...has to be taken off and baked out or just replaced. Fuel quality is a big issue, has to be good clean and fresh diesel. Old diesel (remember when it was thought that diesel did not really get "OLD"??)....doesn't burn quite as well, and will slowly fill the dpf with garbage. Water. Water in the fuel will absolutely destroy the high pressure pump (called supply pump) and the injectors. Zero water should be allowed in the fuel, and I mean none, not 1%, has to be zero%. That in itself has been a big issue around here with fuel stations keeping thousands of gallons of off-road fuel in their underground tanks, condensation is rampant as is just water in general. YOu want to buy road fuel and from a station that sells a lot of it, so it's always fresh and always checked for moisture (usually not much in there if they run through a lot of fuel). Keep the fuel filters fresh/replaced and keep the separator nice and clean.
You also have DEF to look out for, do not ever put diesel in the def tank, not even one drop. One drop of diesel in the def tank will destroy the def header assembly (part down inside the tank), lines, def injector, etc. Expensive mistake to make, don't do it--ever. Def goes bad over time so if your tractor sits, you may have to replace it once in a while. The tractor will tell you when it's bad, it has a sensor.
Aside from that, nothing to it.
Out of date DEF makes a wonderful foliar inoculant for alfalfa hay. I buy it from my jobber for next to nothing when it's past it's use date. All it is is urea and deionized water. Alfalfa loves the stuff and leaf uptake is great. 5 gallons to 250 gallons of water. Smells like cat pee.
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Yes it will do an auto or passive regen as described by lug bolt when it’s standing still. As long as the temperature of the exhaust is high enough and the rpm is high enough. It will not do a parked regen unless the soot level has reached a certain level and has been ignored through the lower stages. If you are not going to be around I’d leave it with the rpm higher than 2000, which might be marginal. It would need you to push the parked regen button to do a parked regen. Not being around and too low an rpm could you get into trouble.
Yes it will do an auto or passive regen as described by lug bolt when it’s standing still. As long as the temperature of the exhaust is high enough and the rpm is high enough. It will not do a parked regen unless the soot level has reached a certain level and has been ignored through the lower stages. If you are not going to be around I’d leave it with the rpm higher than 2000, which might be marginal. It would need you to push the parked regen button to do a parked regen. Not being around and too low an rpm could you get into trouble.
Which tractor to you have? Depending on the model, you may have a screen on the Intellipanel that tells you how full your dpf filter is. Mine does, a 60 series L tractor, and it won‘t initiate an auto regen until the bar graph hits 100% full. If it is running at fairly high rpm with some kind of load it will accumulate soot slowly, and so will not ask to regen very often. I have watched mine for several years now, and it accumulates soot most in the first five minutes after a cold start.
It is the M5N-091 I can see the level of soot yes. See in both the case of a pto pump and the genertor it will be sitting there in park with the pto running for a long time. But in both cases it is going to be in economy pto at nearly the 540 pto speed rpm. So if auto regen will still activated when it is sitting there in park doing that then it will be fine. Pump is low to moderate low, the generator depending on the time of year had managed to almost max out my 5083en (Which I traded in) in economy pto. but in both use cases the rpm will be enough for it to do a regen. It gets confusing, so to do a parked regen I need to trigger it, but it will do a passive regen while parked? correct? Sofar I only used the tractor a few hours and am at 28% soot, most did appear right after start up as you mentioned.
NCL4701
Well-known member
Equipment
L4701, T2290, WC68, grapple, BB1572, Farmi W50R, Howes 500, 16kW IMD gen, WG24
Thanks. That’s the most comprehensive explanation of dpf I’ve seen anywhere and considering the source is, as best I recall from other posts, a retired service tech very helpful.
I don’t know near what lugbolt does, but I can attest while running a chipper stationary at 540 PTO rpm, which is very near WOT, mine has run a passive regen and only reason I know is I noticed the change in sound of the engine and light on the dash when it had about 5 minutes left. Before that the chipper was making so much racket I didn’t notice the change in the sound of the tractor engine. If the chipper hadn’t plugged up I probably wouldn’t have known it ran a regen.
Yes. The nomenclature gets confusing. For a parked regen you must be parked, you must have missed the opportunity to do an auto regen, and you must push the do parked regen button. For an auto regen, aka passive regen as lugbolt uses the term, you do nothing and it will initiate the regen by itself.
Fwiw kubota uses the term passive regeneration to describe soot which burns off as a result of the heat generated during normal work. So sometimes I can be mowing or doing some sort of heavy work and the meter runs backwards for a while.
Auto regen and parked regen are particular computer controlled processes that will nearly completely remove all the soot in the dpf filter when successfully completed. After it is all done you will see the bar graph reset to 0% full. Most of us have never done a parked regen, it is easy and safer to run the tractor so it can auto regen as needed.
If you burn off when mowing I probably would too and when running the gen. It's a 31kw gen that depending on the time of year will run at a range of load levels. So it will do an auto regen when parked but it's not the same as a parked regen, cool!
I don't expect much issue with it, in the summer it's alot of spraying and mowing so high rpm and medium to high load since it's an airblast sprayer and a big wide winged mower. Winter is plowing snow which probably won't generate enough heat to burn off the soot naturally and fall is hauling apple bins back and forth which would probably build slowly. Today we were just using it to sit down straw bales so run 10 mins and stop, that builds soot much faster
Boy am I glad I have pre 4 engines in my M's. Much less complex. 'Regen' for me is a cold Miller after a long day in the field. 
Kind of surprised you can run a 31KW pto genny. You actually have less pto power than I do and I'm not sure my M9 would run one. Don't need one though. I have a JD diesel powered standby 27KW next to the shop. Plowing snow builds engine heat with mine with a 10 foot plow out front and a Lucknow blower on the back... Heck of a snow machine, gad we only get about one big snow here every year.
I have a 2 speed PTO on my cab M9 that I hardly ever use. The economy mode don't really make enough power to handle what I run.
Yea..... it's kinda dumb, you reduce the emissions but create piles and piles of plastic from def containers. So is it really helping at all?Boy am I glad I have pre 4 engines in my M's. Much less complex. 'Regen' for me is a cold Miller after a long day in the field.
... and all that hardware and computers to act up. Not for me. I have the last 2 tractors I'll ever need. and I'm sure I can sell them for a good price when I quit farming. pre 4 units, especially the larger ones are in demand.
Actually, there isn't one diesel here that is post 4. The cars are but they are gasoline.
Actually, there isn't one diesel here that is post 4. The cars are but they are gasoline.
A caveat with all this: my experience is with the Lseries tractors. I had heard from a sales person that the newer big tractors were or would be outfitted with some features like on demand regen, so that the operator could pick a convenient time eg when they were roading the tractor to a new site. So some features will be different on your tractor. The L series don't use def. Now that you have a general idea about the regen process, go back and read your owner's manual very carefully. Before you leave it running unwatched, make sure it is behaving as predicted. My manual specifically says not to leave the tractor when it is regenerating, in part because the exhaust gets very hot and could start a fire. Making a mistake could get very expensive for a variety of reasons. It takes multiple read throughs on those manuals to figure out what they are trying to say. I don't have access to a manual for that tractor, or I'd check.
An aside, there have been many threads about using the pto to run a generator, and it seems like the consensus was that a dedicated generator was better.
Or hours and hours at WOT. For my use (general tractoring/bucketing/raking) it wold need the regen pretty regular based on usage. My brain just can't get around burning fuel at WOT for hours and hours to save emissions? Fuel, oil consumption etc. all goes up, not down. Engine life could only go down.
DEF is a whole other issue. Too bad all those plastic containers I have piling up were not made of wood. <sarc> At least all those pallets of DEF travel fuel free to all the depos around the world. It would be a bummer knowing that producing/driving all the DEF around was adding to the problem. </sarc>
A dedicated 31kw generator is an engine, fuel tank and fuel that have to be maintained for the little use they get. Unless your made of money the pto is far better haha but thanks for the info