Need ideas for broken front PTO flex shaft. (L1730 Loader on L245)

[dchimirev]

Tractor L245 2WD
Loader L1730 (Best I can tell)
Flex Shaft Part # 70050-00705 .

So the Flex Shaft that drives the front mounted hydraulic pump for the loader has ripped in half. The dealer said this part is no longer available and I haven't had luck finding a used one as of yet. If anyone has some experience with this issue I'd love some advice. In the perfect world I'd like to find a new or used working part (where can I look?). If that's not an option, what else can I do? Thanks for any help.

Also, why is this a flex shaft? is there really that much movement between the components that a rigid shaft would not work?

 

[200mph]

It's a long shot, but perhaps http://wkytpstore.com/


Another option, but will likely require some work on your end to work. Perhaps contact one of the companies below or similar to see if they can provide a direct replacement (likely a custom part) or perhaps they can provide the cable so the old cable can be removed from the coupler ends and welded(?) back together...
http://www.flexishaft.com/powertransmission.htm
http://www.sswhite.net/ready_flex_without_casing.htm
http://www.suhner-transmission-expert.com/en/products-applications/flexible-shafts/design-and-selection.html

Hopefully this will spur some other ideas.

 

[007kubotaguy]

Hello. Chances are you have a 1200 loader not a 1720. The easy cheap alternative is to plumb the loader into the tractor hydraulics. It can be done relatively easy for about $200. Two hoses and an adapter block. The only problem is the loader will function a little slower. No less power just a little bit slower. If you need more details about hooking the Hydraulics up to the Tractor I can give you a list of the things you need. Good luck Lance

 

[dchimirev]

Hello. Chances are you have a 1200 loader not a 1720. The easy cheap alternative is to plumb the loader into the tractor hydraulics. It can be done relatively easy for about $200. Two hoses and an adapter block. The only problem is the loader will function a little slower. No less power just a little bit slower. If you need more details about hooking the Hydraulics up to the Tractor I can give you a list of the things you need. Good luck Lance

What makes you say that it's a 1200. I've looked at both parts manuals and the ilustrations match better for the 1720. Thanks for the idea, however I'd probably use that as a last resort measure. I also have a 3pt backhoe which runs of the front mounted hydro pump.

 

[RCW]

What makes you say that it's a 1200. I've looked at both parts manuals and the ilustrations match better for the 1720. Thanks for the idea, however I'd probably use that as a last resort measure. I also have a 3pt backhoe which runs of the front mounted hydro pump.

I would pay heed to both the guys that responded. I see it's your first posts here.

They don't post often, but both seem to have much more expertise than me and a lot of other guys here.

They, and some other guys much smarter than me might be able to get you through it. The backhoe adds to the complexity of the problem..

Just a suggestion.......and I wish you the best of luck.

That's a funky looking shaft to replace, and I wondered the same thing about the solid vs. flex shaft.

Best wishes.

 

[Lil Foot]

My 1979 B7100 with B219 loader uses a double chain coupler & short shaft to connect the hydraulic pump to the crank. Pic is a little hard to see, but enough to get the idea.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/Power-Transmission/Shaft-Couplers/

 

[dchimirev]

My 1979 B7100 with B219 loader uses a double chain coupler & short shaft to connect the hydraulic pump to the crank. Pic is a little hard to see, but enough to get the idea.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/Power-Transmission/Shaft-Couplers/

Funny, I was just looking at those (Also U-Joints). Do you know what and how does the chain coupler attach to. Does one end attach directly to the crank shaft, is it splines or keyed? What about the other end, is there a shaft that then attaches to the pump, how are those connections made. Sorry I'm asking for such detail, just trying to figure out exactly what parts I wold need to replicate this set up.

Also, can anyone comment if a set up with a U-Joint would work (better/worse than the original flex shaft. Thanks) .

 

[dchimirev]

What are your thought on using something like this to clamp the two pieces of the broken shaft together?

https://www.zoro.com/climax-metal-p...m0D4QrKsOkqkZFdMyq6TcYbuZz2nAq3RoCGbIQAvD_BwE

 

[Lil Foot]

Funny, I was just looking at those (Also U-Joints). Do you know what and how does the chain coupler attach to. Does one end attach directly to the crank shaft, is it splines or keyed? What about the other end, is there a shaft that then attaches to the pump, how are those connections made. Sorry I'm asking for such detail, just trying to figure out exactly what parts I wold need to replicate this set up.
Also, can anyone comment if a set up with a U-Joint would work (better/worse than the original flex shaft. Thanks) .

This thread should help:
http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17284&highlight=b219+coupler

 

[Russell King]

Your shaft is really just a spring attached to the coupling ends. It allows for flexibility so the input and output shafts can be out of alignment.

You can probably get the spring replaced by someone knowledgeable about power transmission shafts.

You can probably get steel shafts attached to the couplings and then install a flexible coupling to connect the shafts together. Look at K-coupling flex coupling for

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[Russell King]

Today there is a L245 shaft and pump assembly for sale in classified section of the forum


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[rbargeron]

What are your thought on using something like this to clamp the two pieces of the broken shaft together?

https://www.zoro.com/climax-metal-p...m0D4QrKsOkqkZFdMyq6TcYbuZz2nAq3RoCGbIQAvD_BwE

There were several different front pump drive setups on early Kubota tractors. Many are now wearing out, none is well-documented, new parts are unavailable, if you have a broken one a solution usually needs to be invented from scratch, unless you find an increasingly rare used one.

They all include some kind of flexible part for alignment. The operating torque is not huge (an electric drill would turn the pump). In the case of your spring shaft, something like a set screwed coupling over the break might work. Looks like it would need two different diameters. Fastening anything to a spring is difficult to do well. (your original was crimped in a press)

On the ones I've worked on (L345 and L355 with 1720), there's not much swing clearance above and below the shaft, affecting the choices available. A weak point on those is the internal splines in the shaft coupling at the engine, which wear out from running dry. Our solution was a new outside press-fit collar with 4 new thru holes for dog-point screws. Had to grind the screw heads to clear the axle frame below.

A good approach with yours might be to have a local machinist/fabricator take a look at the part and where it has to fit, and whip up a "magic poo-bah" (technical term). Good luck, Dick B

 

[D2Cat]

How about having a hydraulic hose made up. Take the ends off your wore out piece and weld them to the ends of the hose couplings.

 

[sullpond]

I have the same set up, except my coupling is intact, but the splines on the crank side are worn out. I drilled it out, and put two set screws 90º apart to lock it down. What I failed to consider, is the splines allow the coupling to travel on the crank end as the spring torques up. By locking it down, there was no travel, and when that spring twisted tight, it ripped the seals out of the pump.
The flex coupling also allowed for the pump and crank to misalign without beating each other up. I think there's more vertical travel there than is realized. I'm getting ready to put mine onboard.

 

[rbargeron]

Whether the shaft flexes by a spring section or a chain coupling, the coupling moves back and forth a small amount on the splines. If the spline area was greased the dry rust wouldn't form and wear away the spline teeth. Unfortunately there isn't a zerk on the coupling or a convenient way to access it.

 

[dchimirev]

Whether the shaft fezes by a spring section or a chain coupling, the coupling moves back and forth a small amount on the splines. If the spline area was greased the dry rust wouldn't form and wear away the spline teeth. Unfortunately there isn't a zerk on the coupling or a convenient way to access it.

First off, thanks to everyone for all the replys.

I'm putting together a custom shaft out of various components but I need to know if the coupling needs to be able to move front to back along the splines as you just mentioned (@ the crank shaft). If so, how much freedom to move does it need, and also why does it need to move back and fourth. From my understanding both the pump and crank shaft are stationary, so I would not think that there needs to be any allowance for the shaft to moved front to back, am I wrong? Thanks.

P.S. I'm using solid shafts and a lovejoy jaw coupling. No springs anywhere.

 

[rbargeron]

The axial motion is very small - it comes from the crank and pump centerlines not precisely in line. The lovejoy jaw coupling has a rubber star that will act as a flexible u-joint to soak it up. Should work well if the splined coupling at the engine isn't too loose.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

The reason you don't want axial load is that it will wear on the trust bearings in the motor, and that's a very bad thing.
So when you set it up set it will a very small gap in the lovejoy, don't set it tight.

 

[dchimirev]

Thanks again for all the info.

So here's my solution in case anyone ever comes across this post. I got all parts from surpluscenter.com

Welded a 1/2 coupling to the original splined section of the broken shaft. That got connected to a 1/2 solid shaft. That in turn was hooked up to a jaw coupling which was directly connected to the pump. The jaw coupling has a 1/2 bore on one side and a 3/4 bore size on the pump side. There wasn't enough clearance for the jaw coupling to fit between the pump and the front axle, so I had to move the pump out by any extra 1.5 inches. I just used some stock 1/2 plumbing pipes as extra long spacers and used 120mm bolts (orders from boltdepot.com they are M12 fine threads). I did have to cut a small section of the hood so the pump would not be hitting it.

 

[rbargeron]

Good job - Most of these tractors will need a redo of the pump drive. You've added nicely to the tribal experience ! Dick B