Need confirmation that chatgpt is not wrong

[awesome]

Before searching this forum, I decided to ask a question to chatgpt. Can someone confirm the accuracy of the response? The details of it make it sound pretty accurate.

My question:
I own a kubota b2601 and I need to do the hydraulic oil change for the 400h maintenance. Do I need to also change the oil in my implements such as the backhoe?

Chatgpt response:
When performing the 400-hour hydraulic oil change on your Kubota B2601, it’s generally unnecessary to change the hydraulic oil in your implements, such as the backhoe, unless you notice contamination or other issues. Here’s why and what to check:

Key Points:

1. Shared Hydraulic System:
   • The hydraulic oil in your implements (e.g., backhoe, loader) typically circulates from the tractor's reservoir through the hoses and cylinders. Unless the implement has its own reservoir, it does not store hydraulic oil independently.
2. Contamination or Old Oil:
   • If the hydraulic oil in your implements has become contaminated (e.g., water ingress, dirt, or metal particles), it’s a good idea to flush them during the oil change.
   • Inspect the hoses and cylinder seals for leaks or damage. Contamination often occurs due to faulty seals or cracked hoses.
3. Backhoe-Specific Considerations:
   • If your backhoe has a separate hydraulic system with its own reservoir, you’ll need to follow its specific maintenance schedule. Check your backhoe's manual for details.
4. Practical Tip:
   • When replacing the hydraulic oil, operate the backhoe and other hydraulic implements to cycle the new oil through the system. This ensures that any residual old oil in the hoses or cylinders gets diluted with the fresh oil.

Steps to Consider:

• Drain and Refill the Tractor's Reservoir: Follow the Kubota manual for the correct oil type and filter replacement.
• Inspect Implements: Check for signs of contamination or degraded oil in the hydraulic cylinders.
• Bleed the System (if needed): After refilling, bleed air from the hydraulic system by operating all hydraulic functions, such as lifting the loader and moving the backhoe attachments through their full range of motion.
• Replace Hydraulic Filters: Ensure both the tractor and implements (if equipped with filters) have clean filters installed.

 

[mcmxi]

I think this is a really interesting question. Not the chatgpt part but the tractor, implement and oil change part.

I recently bought a used hydraulic rear blade with angle, tilt and swing cylinders. I drained all three cylinders using a little compressed air to cycle them. I ended up with around 1.25 gallons of oil that was dark enough and unknown enough to warrant changing before connecting the blade to either of my tractors.

Now to your point about an implement that has always been run on your own tractor. The quality of oil in an hydraulic implement isn't as critical as the oil in the transmission, but the former affects the latter, along with the hydraulic and transmission oil filters in the loop. Manufacturers don't know what hydraulic implements are going to be used with the tractor, so the published service intervals are for the tractor only, or at least that seems reasonable. So the crux of this is what are the chances of the oil in an implement being detrimental to the oil that flows through the transmission of the tractor.

Your B2601 holds 4 gallons of hydraulic oil so how much oil is in the cylinders on your BH70 backhoe? I would guess that it holds somewhere around 1-1/2 to 2 gallons when you take into account all five cylinders and hoses associated with the backhoe. So if you assume that the backhoe holds close to 50% as much oil as your transmission, and the fluid in the backhoe is in the same condition as the fluid in your tractor, when you drain and replace the transmission oil, are you ok with the oil mixture that you end up with, e.g. 70% new and 30% old?

Personally, I don't like those numbers, so if I had a backhoe I'd be inclined to change the oil in it along with the transmission oil for peace of mind if nothing else. There probably aren't many implements that hold as much oil as a backhoe, but it's not a bad practice to drain and replace the oil from hydraulic implements on some kind of schedule. No doubt there are farmers all over the country who never bother to drain and replace the oil in their implements and claim to never have a problem. I have eight implements that have some form of hydraulics including a snow blower, front snow blade, offset flail, folding cutter, rear blade, post hole digger and two turn-over plows. I use the first four implements a lot so a yearly oil change on those wouldn't be a bad idea. Draining the hydraulics and topping off the transmission would be exchanging some older hydraulic fluid for new which also isn't a bad idea.

 

[Geezer3d]

I doubt that any oil change, including engine oil, actually replaces all of the oil. There is always some left in places which don't drain. If you are worried about contaminated oil in the implements then I agree that you should change it. Otherwise, if the oil is fine other than normal use, each time you change the oil you are replacing some of the old stuff. I believe that is all that is necessary.

Of course I agree with your concern about buying used equipment with unknown age and type of oil. That should be drained out before connecting it to your machine.

That's my opinion.

 

[mcmxi]

I doubt that any oil change, including engine oil, actually replaces all of the oil. There is always some left in places which don't drain. If you are worried about contaminated oil in the implements then I agree that you should change it. Otherwise, if the oil is fine other than normal use, each time you change the oil you are replacing some of the old stuff. I believe that is all that is necessary.

Of course I agree with your concern about buying used equipment with unknown age and type of oil. That should be drained out before connecting it to your machine.

That's my opinion.

There's a big difference between "oil left in places which don't drain" compared to the capacity of an implement that can approach 50% of the capacity of the transmission. Also, with the former you can't do anything about it whereas you can for the latter.

That's my opinion.

 

[MOOTS]

I think this is a really interesting question. Not the chatgpt part but the tractor, implement and oil change part.

I recently bought a used hydraulic rear blade with angle, tilt and swing cylinders. I drained all three cylinders using a little compressed air to cycle them. I ended up with around 1.25 gallons of oil that was dark enough and unknown enough to warrant changing before connecting the blade to either of my tractors.

View attachment 142867

Now to your point about an implement that has always been run on your own tractor. The quality of oil in an hydraulic implement isn't as critical as the oil in the transmission, but the former affects the latter, along with the hydraulic and transmission oil filters in the loop. Manufacturers don't know what hydraulic implements are going to be used with the tractor, so the published service intervals are for the tractor only, or at least that seems reasonable. So the crux of this is what are the chances of the oil in an implement being detrimental to the oil that flows through the transmission of the tractor.

Your B2601 holds 4 gallons of hydraulic oil so how much oil is in the cylinders on your BH70 backhoe? I would guess that it holds somewhere around 1-1/2 to 2 gallons when you take into account all five cylinders and hoses associated with the backhoe. So if you assume that the backhoe holds close to 50% as much oil as your transmission, and the fluid in the backhoe is in the same condition as the fluid in your tractor, when you drain and replace the transmission oil, are you ok with the oil mixture that you end up with, e.g. 70% new and 30% old?

Personally, I don't like those numbers, so if I had a backhoe I'd be inclined to change the oil in it along with the transmission oil for peace of mind if nothing else. There probably aren't many implements that hold as much oil as a backhoe, but it's not a bad practice to drain and replace the oil from hydraulic implements on some kind of schedule. No doubt there are farmers all over the country who never bother to drain and replace the oil in their implements and claim to never have a problem. I have eight implements that have some form of hydraulics including a snow blower, front snow blade, offset flail, folding cutter, rear blade, post hole digger and two turn-over plows. I use the first four implements a lot so a yearly oil change on those wouldn't be a bad idea. Draining the hydraulics and topping off the transmission would be exchanging some older hydraulic fluid for new which also isn't a bad idea.

To the OP’s question, I’d say it isn’t needed, if the hoe has only been on his tractor and there are no signs of contamination.

In your scenario, I would absolutely get as much oil out of cylinders and hoses that I could. Coming from an equipment rental driver, I’ve seen implements come back with all sorts of nasty “oil” in them. There’s no telling how many machines had been swapping spit.

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

IMHO....this is related to the age old discussion related to "solution by dilution" and I have never know anyone to flush oils out of all their implement hoses when making oil changes.

An oil change w/o triple flushing all hoses is "good enough" when solution by dilution is considered.

much like when you undergo a dialysis treatment cleaning the waste from the blood is not 100% effective, or cleaning ATF fluids from car/truck with a torque converter, etc.... 100.0% fluid change... NOPE.... but good enough.


heck consider businesses with multiple tractors like a typical farm or people who lend or rent their stuff to others. Hooked to a JD one day, a Kubota, later on then maybe a Kioti a few months later and those implements wont ever see a hose flush. In this case its cross contamination versus old/dirty oils.

 

[mcmxi]

To the OP’s question, I’d say it isn’t needed, if the hoe has only been on his tractor and there are no signs of contamination.

Like many things in life, this comes down to one's comfort level because none of us have actual data to support our positions. Some here drain and replace the transmission oil at the first 50 hours along with the filter, despite Kubota only stating that the filter should be replaced. That's their comfort level.

Given the ratio of transmission oil to backhoe oil and the small difference between the cost of 4 gallons of UDT2 vs. 6 gallons, I'd be inclined to drain and replace, but that's not based on any evidence to say that it's the best practice.

 

[mcmxi]

much like when you undergo a dialysis treatment cleaning the waste from the blood is not 100% effective, or cleaning ATF fluids from car/truck with a torque converter, etc.... 100.0% fluid change... NOPE.... but good enough.

This is a straw man argument just like Geezer3d above.

Everyone will figure out their own comfort level whether they base that on someone else's opinion, they're own independent assessment, or actual data, and act accordingly. It makes no difference to me what chatgpt says about anything or what strangers or even friends do with their equipment.

 

[Mowbizz]

No yiu don’t change the fluid stuck in the implements…

 

[jimh406]

For grins and giggles, here's the Grok response.

For a Kubota B2601 undergoing its 400-hour maintenance, the focus is typically on changing the hydraulic oil and related filters for the tractor's system. Here's what you should know:

• Hydraulic Oil Change: The 400-hour service generally involves changing the transmission and hydraulic fluid. This is because the hydraulic system of the tractor uses the same fluid for both the transmission and hydraulics.
• Implement Oil: Implements like a backhoe might have their own hydraulic systems, but they often share the tractor's hydraulic fluid. However, some implements could have separate hydraulic reservoirs or cylinders that might require independent maintenance:
  • Shared System: If your backhoe shares the same hydraulic circuit with the tractor, you would not need to change the oil in the implement separately since it would be part of the main hydraulic system being serviced.
  • Separate System: If the backhoe has its own hydraulic fluid reservoir, you would need to check the manufacturer's recommendations for that specific implement. Typically, changing the fluid in implements like backhoes might not be required at the same interval unless specified by the implement's maintenance schedule or if there are visible signs of contamination or degradation.
• General Practices: Always refer to your Kubota B2601 operator's manual for specific guidance. The manual might not only detail the hydraulic system maintenance but also provide insights on the care for attached implements.
• Inspection and Maintenance: Even if you're not changing the oil in your implements, it's good practice to inspect the hydraulic components for leaks, wear, or any other issues during this maintenance interval.

Remember, while the tractor's hydraulic system might be on a 400-hour change schedule, implements might have different service intervals or might only need fluid changes if there's an issue like contamination or severe usage. Always consult the specific maintenance manual for each piece of equipment you're using.

For detailed instructions tailored to your Kubota B2601 and its attachments, you might want to look at the maintenance schedule in your tractor's manual or seek advice from a Kubota dealership or through Kubota's official resources for the most accurate information.

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

"It depends." If there are "a lot of implements" with fresh oil in them or a few implements that hold "a lot of fresh oil" they dilute the tractor's "used oil" with fresh oil, extending the life of the oil. Changing the tractor oil keeps the sum total of oil "reasonably average."

Oil is the lifeblood of good lubrication, so if it's in question so is the health of the entire system. Do what makes sense for your specific situation.

 

[RCW]

This is a situation where I agree with everyone....

In @awesome 's case. Attachments he's owned, and relatively "small" as far a quantity of fluid in them. No way I'd worry about it.

In @mcmxi 's case. Something he bought. No idea what's in it. He has larger equipment. Couple gallons of CRAP (e.g., water), even if your tractor capacity is 15+ gallons is a lot. I'd probably change that just to be safe. Look at what he took out....

We'll ALL get a Certificate of Participation at the conclusion.....

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

So in conclusion, we might as well just shut down the forums because you can all get your answers from ChatGPT, GROK, and all the other AI programs out there.

 

[mcmxi]

So in conclusion, we might as well just shut down the forums because you can all get your answers from ChatGPT, GROK, and all the other AI programs out there.

Sadly, independent critical thinking and analysis is heading the way of the dinosaurs. It won't be long before commercial airline pilots will be asking ChatGPT what to do when they encounter an emergency at 36,000 ft.

 

[RCW]

So in conclusion, we might as well just shut down the forums because you can all get your answers from ChatGPT, GROK, and all the other AI programs out there.

NO!!!

My tech skills are less than my buddy @skeets.

He says he's not good at it, but I think he's sandbagging.....

I haven't a clue what or how to use "ChatGPT, GROK, and all the other AI programs out there."

 

[jimh406]

It won't be long before commercial airline pilots will be asking ChatGPT what to do when they encounter an emergency at 36,000 ft.

That's pretty unlikely considering how unreliable ChatGPT is.

 

[jimh406]

So in conclusion, we might as well just shut down the forums because you can all get your answers from ChatGPT, GROK, and all the other AI programs out there.

Where do you think they are getting their information? They aren't independently thinking.

 

[mcmxi]

That's pretty unlikely considering how unreliable ChatGPT is.

My comment was meant to be satirical. A word that ChatGPT can explain to anyone interested.

As for the hydraulic oil in implements, I've drained the fluid on all used implements that I've bought before using them, and am going to incorporate a drain and fill regimen for the rest of my implements, based on the oil change intervals of my tractors, i.e. not very often. My equipment, my analysis, my comfort level, my money!

 

[RCW]

So in conclusion, we might as well just shut down the forums because you can all get your answers from ChatGPT, GROK, and all the other AI programs out there.

Rumor has it that there's a SidecarFlip entity creating all AI data regarding Kubota machines.......

 

[jimh406]

My comment was meant to be satirical. A word that ChatGPT can explain to anyone interested.

I'm not so sure.