Need advice on buying L3302DT -- first tractor, so many questions!

[NorthwoodsLife]

I am Kubota biased, because after all, they are the benchmark all the others try to reach.

But... if money speaks louder than quality... You know the drill...

Go to all the local tractor dealers and look. Heck, you're in sales, so converse. A little tit for tat. Verbal chess. Look at the tractors, talk some sales smack.

Whatever dealer is the most trust worthy to your gut feeling, and as long you like the tractor quality, buy that one. A dealer close to home is a big plus, unless they are fools or not trustworthy. If it's not a Kubota or a Deere, your rolling the dice.

Your closest Kubota dealer may be a complete fool, and the closest John Deere dealer may be an awesome honest dude.... In that case, even I would buy the Deere.

As for Kioti and some others, I only know that they are new here, which is risky to your investment. And they are mostly rebranded Korean tractors. Korean is not a bad thing. Finding parts and support in 5 years might be tho.

Bobcat is a bit different. Bobcat has been an excellent brand for skid steers since the 1970's. Excellent equipment over the years. Many Bobcats had Kubota engines!
They were first true skid steer company. But they haven't been into compact tractors very long. That's a newer venture for them. So now they also sell a rebranded Korean compact tractor line. Now they are Korean owned.
Wether it's good or bad, I don't know. But it won't be like owning a Kubota.

Let us know.

 

[MyakkaCodeOrange]

* Agree with others that if you're not going to use PTO-based implements, have a hard look at the 2502 vs the 3302. Loader capacity and machine weight should be the same.
* However, I was going to throw out having a look at the L3560LE. Maybe it's more than you need, but if you're looking at the 3302, you'll get a lot more tractor (since you were looking at the 4802) as far as weight and larger frame size, and potential lift capacity (you can get the LA805 with that, vs the LA535..so about 50% more lift than the standard L)
* For alternatives to Land Pride for implements, there are many options. I've bought many of mine (landscape rake, land plane, grapple) from HomesteadImplements. I also have pallet forks from Everything Attachments
* For moving all the landscaping supplies, I agree to think hard about the loader work and ballast. Today I got 2/3 a cubic yard of garden soil and while the L4701 was able to lift the tote out of the back of the truck, it was definitely light in the rear and tippy (I had my 550lb land plane on back -- been meaning to build some shelves to hold additonal weight/ballast on it). I could barely get it out of the truck at full height, and I believe (but am not certain - can't find the specs) the 4701 can lift heigher than the other standard Ls. Not saying you need to get a bigger tractor, but calling out some aspects I know I didn't think about when buying.

As a tool, it sounds like you'll use the tractor a lot. Maybe not every day, but I think you'll be happy to have a capable machine to use when you need it, vs renting

Edit to add: Sounds like a very fun and exciting project you have in front of you. Congrats on that!

You bet, we have owned homes before but this is the first 'homestead' with acreage. We are looking forward to it !

 

[MyakkaCodeOrange]

I am Kubota biased, because after all, they are the benchmark all the others try to reach.

But... if money speaks louder than quality... You know the drill...

Go to all the local tractor dealers and look. Heck, you're in sales, so converse. A little tit for tat. Verbal chess. Look at the tractors, talk some sales smack.

Whatever dealer is the most trust worthy to your gut feeling, and as long you like the tractor quality, buy that one. A dealer close to home is a big plus, unless they are fools or not trustworthy. If it's not a Kubota or a Deere, your rolling the dice.

Your closest Kubota dealer may be a complete fool, and the closest John Deere dealer may be an awesome honest dude.... In that case, even I would buy the Deere.

As for Kioti and some others, I only know that they are new here, which is risky to your investment. And they are mostly rebranded Korean tractors. Korean is not a bad thing. Finding parts and support in 5 years might be tho.

Bobcat is a bit different. Bobcat has been an excellent brand for skid steers since the 1970's. Excellent equipment over the years. Many Bobcats had Kubota engines!
They were first true skid steer company. But they haven't been into compact tractors very long. That's a newer venture for them. So now they also sell a rebranded Korean compact tractor line. Now they are Korean owned.
Wether it's good or bad, I don't know. But it won't be like owning a Kubota.

Let us know.

All good points. Yes as far as I understand, the Bobcats are (or were) basically rebranded Kioti tractors. Now, the local Bobcat dealer told me today that Bobcat has bought some of the molds and are manufacturing some of the tractor themselves, and assembling them in Statesville NC. As you stated Bobcat is a well known excellent brand for Skidsteers... and based on that I am thinking they have a reputation to protect. Of course with the change of ownership that may not necessarily be the case. I've been burned on that logic before (looking at you Yakima...)

 

[Yotekiller]

Personally, I wouldn't touch a Kioti with a 10 foot pole. And Bobcats are Kioti tractors, all of them. One only needs to spend a short amount of time in the Kioti groups to realize they're having serious issues with their metal quality. I suspect that is one way they are saving money is buying cheaper metal to build their tractors. Not to mention, I have no faith in any of the off-brand tractor dealers staying in business for the long haul like a Kubota or Deere dealer typically does. I couldn't imagine owning a tractor 10 years down the road and not being able to find parts or support for. But if the initial savings is that important to you, by all means.

The 2502, 3302, and 3902 are all the same size machine as far as weight, lift capacity, and power to the ground are concerned. The ONLY thing that separates their functionality is HP. That really only comes down to PTO implement use or speed of work. The 3302 and 3902 having a much more com[plicated engine that requires all these sensors and a computer to run. The 2502 is as basic as it gets (which many people really prefer). There is already a turbo on the market for the 2501 and I suspect there will be one for the 2502 eventually. Then you could have a no emissions/electronics tractor pushing the 40hp realm. I have the 2502 and love it - it does everything I need around my 20 acres.

 

[rc51stierhoff]

I don’t have direct experience with Kioti, I’ve seen and looked at one in person at a neighbors farm…he loves it…it seems like no frills, which is a selling feature to me and it has significant lift (claimed / advertised) compared to other brands of similar stance and weight. I am not sure how that really works with ballast or how / where the machine was built and better to handle the weight and lift…at a glance the frame did not look any stronger and neither did the rear end or axles. I am also not sure if it was a proud calculation on the lift, but physics are physics…and the weight and stress will be transferred somewhere. I don’t think lift capability changes what a particular size machine can safely lift and move. But the neighbors seemed like a solid machine and he has nothing but good things to say.

IMO when considering brands for a major purchase it’s helpful to consider:

1. Term of ownership vs likely needs for parts service. (Will they be around when you need them?)
2. Dealer service and Parts available and point of sale proximity to where you are.
- reputation / local experience with local dealers.
- if any potential to move that can be an issue as well.
3. How long company been in business and how likely to stay in business vs how long you hope to own your machine? (Lots of brands come and go…and when they go what happens with number 1 and 2 above.)

Those are my simple thoughts. (Personally I’d stick with one of the big brands that have reputable after sale point of service and parts distribution near you…doesn't mean other brands won’t still be around, it’s just my comfort level for a long term purchase of significant $$. )

 

[D2Cat]

You can look up a bit about the tractors at this link. There is a lot of "sales pitch" talks in the article. These are the same brand tractors that Cabela"s stores had for a couple of years and gave up on back in about 2016. TYM.

Who Makes Bobcat Tractors? Discover The Leading Manufacturer Behind The Iconic Equipment

Bobcat tractors are manufactured by Bobcat Company, a leading global manufacturer of compact equipment. Founded in 1947, Bobcat has built a reputable brand

mechanicsnews.com

 

[MyakkaCodeOrange]

T

Personally, I wouldn't touch a Kioti with a 10 foot pole. And Bobcats are Kioti tractors, all of them. One only needs to spend a short amount of time in the Kioti groups to realize they're having serious issues with their metal quality. I suspect that is one way they are saving money is buying cheaper metal to build their tractors. Not to mention, I have no faith in any of the off-brand tractor dealers staying in business for the long haul like a Kubota or Deere dealer typically does. I couldn't imagine owning a tractor 10 years down the road and not being able to find parts or support for. But if the initial savings is that important to you, by all means.

The 2502, 3302, and 3902 are all the same size machine as far as weight, lift capacity, and power to the ground are concerned. The ONLY thing that separates their functionality is HP. That really only comes down to PTO implement use or speed of work. The 3302 and 3902 having a much more com[plicated engine that requires all these sensors and a computer to run. The 2502 is as basic as it gets (which many people really prefer). There is already a turbo on the market for the 2501 and I suspect there will be one for the 2502 eventually. Then you could have a no emissions/electronics tractor pushing the 40hp realm. I have the 2502 and love it - it does everything I need around my 20 acres.

Those are good points on the Kioti and the L2502. I am definitely not a fan of more complicated designs for imaginary emissions benefits. And of course the L2502 is a little cheaper. According to the dealer I would have to buy HST because they have no gear drives in stock… and he’s telling me the 0% deal doesn’t apply if they order one (to get gear drive)…

 

[D2Cat]

"...and he’s telling me the 0% deal doesn’t apply if they order one (to get gear drive)…"

Sounds like a sales technique to get folks to move quicker to purchase what they have in stock.

 

[Yotekiller]

T

Those are good points on the Kioti and the L2502. I am definitely not a fan of more complicated designs for imaginary emissions benefits. And of course the L2502 is a little cheaper. According to the dealer I would have to buy HST because they have no gear drives in stock… and he’s telling me the 0% deal doesn’t apply if they order one (to get gear drive)…

You probably have more than one Kubota dealer in your serviceable area. I have 4 Kubota dealers within an hour of me. I reached out to all 4 in my area and explained I was buying a tractor and was looking for the best deal and informed them they were not the only dealer working for my $. The Kubota dealer in my hometown gave me the worst offer and didn't seem to really care if they got my business or not. The other 3 really competed for my business and I bought a brand new 2502HST with box blade and pallet forks for $27K. But, I also paid cash for my tractor.

 

[MyakkaCodeOrange]

"...and he’s telling me the 0% deal doesn’t apply if they order one (to get gear drive)…"

Sounds like a sales technique to get folks to move quicker to purchase what they have in stock.

Yes, classic sales technique, I think you are correct which is why I am not particularly fond of this dealer. They just happen to be closest. I will try other dealers.

 

[NorthwoodsLife]

Something to keep in mind:

These dealers talk to each other. They aren't ignorant about you, as a potential tractor buyer, if you've spoken to both dealers on a couple occasions.

Think about that.

Unless there's "bad blood" btwn dealers, they do get along with each other. It's a regional thing.

For example:

I asked my closest dealer, (dealer A), the one I bought a new tractor from, for a quote on a front snow blower package. I thought that the price quoted was a bit high.
So, I contacted another K dealer, the next closest, (dealer B), for a quote. Dealer "B's" response was "Contact dealer "A" because they are closer!".

Rotflmao

I don't buy from either of those dealers, now.

 

[NorthwoodsLife]

Fly on the wall...
Call btwn Dealer A and B..

Dealer A: "Say Jimmy, I got some Tennessee hillbilly wanting to get out of Nashville, asking about a L3310 or Grand L or something. Wants a quote. Anyway, He bought the Johnson dump,, yeah that one.. 100 acres off of Hwy I at 235. Thinks he's a farmer now. Anyway, I quoted retail minus a half percent. Have you heard from him?"

Dealer B: "Yeah, he don't know shit about tractors. I'll over quote you on this puke but I want the Smith deal for 3 Grand Ls."

Dealer A: "You gotta deal Jimmy. By the way, how's uncle Eddie doing?"

Dealer B: "Ya know, he never recovered from the hay bailer thing."

Dealer A: "Sorry to hear. Are you going to the J fest next week? If so, I'll see you there, I'm bringing Emily Sue! No shit!"

Dealer B: "You dog! I'll see you there!"

 

[D2Cat]

Fly on the wall...
Call btwn Dealer A and B..

Dealer A: "Say Jimmy, I got some Tennessee hillbilly wanting to get out of Nashville, asking about a L3310 or Grand L or something. Wants a quote. Anyway, He bought the Johnson dump,, yeah that one.. 100 acres off of Hwy I at 235. Thinks he's a farmer now. Anyway, I quoted retail minus a half percent. Have you heard from him?"

Dealer B: "Yeah, he don't know shit about tractors. I'll over quote you on this puke but I want the Smith deal for 3 Grand Ls."

Dealer A: "You gotta deal Jimmy. By the way, how's uncle Eddie doing?"

Dealer B: "Ya know, he never recovered from the hay bailer thing."

Dealer A: "Sorry to hear. Are you going to the J fest next week? If so, I'll see you there, I'm bringing Emily Sue! No shit!"

Dealer B: "You dog! I'll see you there!"

All dealers are not that tight!

 

[MyakkaCodeOrange]

Something to keep in mind:

These dealers talk to each other. They aren't ignorant about you, as a potential tractor buyer, if you've spoken to both dealers on a couple occasions.

Think about that.

Unless there's "bad blood" btwn dealers, they do get along with each other. It's a regional thing.

For example:

I asked my closest dealer, (dealer A), the one I bought a new tractor from, for a quote on a front snow blower package. I thought that the price quoted was a bit high.
So, I contacted another K dealer, the next closest, (dealer B), for a quote. Dealer "B's" response was "Contact dealer "A" because they are closer!".

Rotflmao

I don't buy from either of those dealers, now.

You have a point. That does happen to a certain extent. I think it does vary by region of the country. I think sales people expect you to shop and check prices. As long as you aren’t very unreasonable or rude it’s fine. But sales is sales and at some point they need to make their numbers… on bigger ticket items there’s always some wiggle room after their first number. Dealer A sales manager is applying typical pressure for an end of month close. I’m not a fan of those tactics but being in sale I understand they want to get the deal off the street.

 

[Yotekiller]

I worked 4 dealers against each other, and had 3 of them calling and texting me regularly trying to get my business and each one quoted a different price than the other. One came in thousands below the other 3 and even threw in some freebies (bolt on cutting edge, seat arm rests, and several hats) as well. He wanted my business and he got it.

My advice is to work the dealers against each other and choose the one who EARNS your business. Walking into one dealer and making the purchase without checking with several others is silly in my opinion. Unless of course you have a long standing great relationship with one specific dealer who always does you right..

 

[Orange man]

If you want a live pto on a gear drive you are going to have to jump up to a L3902. The kioti CK2620 does have a live pto. I really wanted a gear drive when I bought my L2501 but wanted a live pto.

 

[NorthwoodsLife]

Neil at Messick's for some extra help..

 

[PaulL]

I think Kioti are towards the top end of the brands. They're pretty big globally. Dad had a big Kioti and it was a good machine. Not as good as the Kubota he had before (but bigger and newer). If you can get a good deal and price matters a lot I wouldn't worry too much about Kioti. Personally I'd buy a Kubota or JD, but I understand stepping down a tier.

I'd be careful with Yanmar (their engines are good, tractors a bit lower volume), LS, Mahindra. They're all fine companies, but I think they're a step behind on evolution of their machines (Kubota's been making similar machines for decades, they're pretty well refined on things that could break).

Some of the other brands are a bit more fly by night. I suspect Summit may be one that Neil is pointing to.

On emissions, it's not clear to me that a tractor at 2500 revs is using a lot more fuel than one at 1500 revs, if they're under the same load. Tractors are governed to their RPMs, the throttle isn't really a throttle as such, it's more a "revs set point". You put the throttle lever where you want the revs to be, the governor opens and closes the injectors to keep the revs where you set them. So, a tractor "idling" at 2,500 revs (i.e. under no load, just running) isn't using that much fuel. I see this on mine, when I'm running the chipper it has to sit at PTO revs, but it's not doing much work when I don't feed sticks in, and not using much fuel. Same when you're running at road speed - it's not using a lot of fuel, as compared to running that same speed with the mower running/mowing.

In the scheme of things, I personally wouldn't worry about the need to run at high revs unless the noise worries you. I mowed for 4 hours last weekend, half a tank of diesel. Another 10% really wouldn't make much difference.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Neil at Messick's for some extra help..

Good video.

A lot of well reasoned thoughts and some insight.

 

[MyakkaCodeOrange]

Thank you all for the advice and great insights. With some of the feedback, I am looking into the L2501 manual (used), as there is no regen like the 3301, and not much HP difference. I have found a 2016 L2501 that has only 43 hours on it, located in the south midwest. For a tractor with that low hours the paint appears rather faded, implying it spent a lot of time outdoors. Any suggestions on things to look for to ascertain condition, aside from the obvious like leaks, condition of hoses, etc. ?
The local dealer here claims rodents like to eat the wiring since the EPA forced mfg to move to bio-based materials... not sure if there is a way to check for that.
Owner says belonged to former wife's farm, only used the loader a couple of times recently in the past (3) years... so obviously been sitting for long periods of time. The price is reasonable so I think I will go look at it in person because even with shipping costs, it's still about 1/2 price of a new one with the same configuration. Owner says everything works and I can test it out if I want. Thanks!