Need advice on buying L3302DT -- first tractor, so many questions!

[MyakkaCodeOrange]

Hello All, Thanks in advance-- great forum. I have read tons of threads here and learned a LOT as well as watched many Messicks / Tractor Mike / L series owner reviews (first yr with tractor etc). I've convinced myself I want a gear drive L series. Would prefer the L4802 for size / power, but due to availability and budget, I am about to pull the trigger on the L3302DT. (Only gear drive dealer has in stock). I grew up (and learned) when everything that drove had a clutch and seat belts were an afterthought. So I like mechanical stuff, including manual trans. I would prefer something like a L3800 or L4800 pre-Tier4 model... but used tractors hereabouts are really hard to find. I have also watched a number of videos on HST and gear comparisons, and yep there are owners who use gear for everything (loader work, moving logs/brush, etc) and while it does require more work / skill, it does not seem that hard with the 8X8 synchro trans. Also do not care for the HST whine / heat. I find the HST grating, and the plain diesel sound relaxing. (I once rented a skidsteer loader for a week to move a lot of dirt around and I found the noise fatiguing... not sure if HST tractors are exactly the same but seems similar). Also, I'm not in a hurry so if loader work takes a little longer I'm Ok with that. Anyway, that is my reasoning on the gear model... (or maybe I'm delusional)

But the more I read & learn, the more I realize I don't know what I don't know, which generate so many questions. I think I am driving the local dealer nuts. I am hoping to get a few answers here.

We have 6.5 acres, very flat, mostly dry, with VERY sandy soil. SW FL soil is usually sand, clay or some mixture, where we are at it is very sandy (think beach sand) with a thin later of organics on top. Our plan is to transform this with lots and lots of mulching, irrigation, and planting the right plants. We intend to plant grass, wild flowers, local ground cover, shade trees, privacy bamboo.bushes, etc. Everything is fenced, we inherited a couple goats, and there some small pastures that need fencing removed / relocated. We intend to plant many citrus & tropical fruit trees, install irrigation lines, grade some areas, maintain a 1/4 mile dirt / shell drive (which has some ruts / holes that need grading & filling). We will also put in a small garden. At some point get bees and/or chickens. I expect to need to move around a lot of mulch (will probably solicit tree trimmers to dump on the property so we can do our own mulching with the YardBeast chipper / shredder). Wife also wants to re-do landscaping, so I expect to move around landscaping materials (bricks, pavers, rocks, etc). Only about <1 acre around house is green grass in need of mowing. To get the rest of the property lush & green, it requires I think ripping up a lot of existing vegetation first to prep the soil. This is mostly low growing hard moss, some weeds, a good number of cactus, etc. Nothing tall enough that I think needs brush hogging-- nothing that even resembles a small tree or bush. So it's not exactly land clearing...more like soil preparation. Once we make headway on those projedcts, we may make an attempt at building a small duck pond.

For initial implements, I am planning: 15 series box blade, pallet forks and stump bucket. The plan is to do the ripping & grading with the BB, moving stuff with pallet forks, and using the stump biucket to dig holes to plant small trees. The pallet fork will be for moving landscape materials, building mat'ls and occasional large delivery items (I find most truck drivers don't want to do down our dirt driveway).

On to the many questions:
--Landpride implements seem pricey (maybe just my impression). The 15 series BB is like $1600. Should I just get the Kubota one, or is something like the EA (Everything Attachments) Xtreme Duty Box Blade a good alternative?
--Do not have budget for a disc harrow or tiller now. Can the BB be a suitable "poor man's" alternative? I am not expecting the same results. For now I just need to rip up enough existing vegetation and break up soil for a small garden, and to seed the remaining area to grow grass / ground cover.
--For ripping, would the BB shanks be sufficient? ... or should I look into a dedicated ripper / scarifier? Still cheaper than a tiller for example. I expect very little in the way of stumps / roots on our property.
--For those of you experienced with sandy soil -- would AG tires be a dumb idea? Local dealer says they primiarly sell R4 and almost no one buys AG tires here. (I'm asking b/c of when the rare used tractors come up for sale within 400 miles... they always seem to have AG tires...) I am not concerned about ripping up lawn (I will get a zero turn for maintaining around the house)... I am more concerned with traction or getting stuck (or, around here -- digging the tractor in)
--The L3302 gear drive PTO is not live continuous... it is transmission driven with overrunning clutch... does this mean the PTO will ONLY work when the tractor is in motion? Thus, using a stationary implement like a post hole digger will not be possible? (And do I even want to try a 3-point PH digger? I've seen a lot of mixed reviews).
--What other questions should I be asking about the PTO ? At least initially, I'm not planning any implements that use PTO.
--If we end up getting local tree timmers / yard workers to dump truckloads of trimimngs / branches to move around... should I consider a grapple?
--Is the 3rd function valve for grapple a simple enough DIY (and cheaper)... or is it worth buying upfront dealer installed? Kubota offers "3RD POSITION VALVE KIT (CHOICE OF VALVE FOR 1ST, 2ND AND 3RD POSITION)" for $1651 -- it's unclear to me if this is for the 3-point or the loader?

To make matters a little complicated, we are out of town for a few weeks trying to get a deal done before 0% goes away... so likely I will not have a change to test drive anything before buying. A gear drive with L3302 with just BB & pallet forks is over $30K even after haggling ! To me the tractor is a tool to get the jobs done (maybe a fun toy as well), and I keep thinking... how much do I really want to spend on this? How much will I really use it? How much can I get done by renting? (Although renting is not very practical... the dealer is 1.5 hr round trip away). I know 0% is a bit of a gimmick (nothing is 0% you are paying for it somewhere) ..but the big advantage is low initial cash outlay. Buying used is overall cheaper... but it's used and you have to write the full check.

Anyway-- answers, thoughts, opinions, any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks !

 

[PaulL]

So many questions!! Lucky we have answers.

I'll pick and choose.

1. Live PTO. Will work any time clutch is released. So, put tractor in neutral, release clutch, PTO is running.
2. HST. I think you'd be better with HST, but I understand your reasons. Mum has an old Massey Ferguson TEA (60-70 years old), it goes fine. You'll be OK with a gear drive and you won't really know what you're missing, so it won't matter to you
3. I think in sand you want wider tires. Ag tires are narrow, so they dig in. Probably won't matter for your use, but your dealer is probably right on R4 tires.
4. Dad had a 3ph post hole digger. Serious guys reckon they're dangerous, around here everyone moved to post rammers. For your use, in sandy soil, I'd guess they're just fine, and far cheaper than a rammer / far faster than a shovel. Just don't get anywhere near it with loose clothing, don't have kids or gormless people around when using it. It's kind of like having a PTO shaft on the back of your tractor that permanently has no guard on it. Neil from Messicks gives a story about why you don't like unguarded PTO shafts - guy he interviewed had one arm or one leg I think. People have been doing it for decades and only a few people have died, so long as you're careful it's an OK decision
5. The 3rd position valve kit is a 3rd valve for the rear remotes. Different thing. A third function can be installed by someone reasonably handy, but my recollection is that many dealers would sell and install it for about the same cost as you just buying it outright. That may no longer be true. But they may be better at it than you are. Conversely, many people complaining about the sub-par install their dealer did, with hoses hanging where they can get grabbed. So probably depends on dealer
6. What are you actually doing with the soil? Does it need to be ripped, or just dump topsoil/mulch etc on top, and then plant into that? I'm not great on lawns, but my general experience is that grass will grow in anything if you give it fertiliser and water. And over time it will improve the soil. So maybe buying a cheap fertiliser spreader, and putting in some good irrigation, is a better process? You do need to do the initial levelling though, otherwise you'll be mowing bumpy land forever, and it's hard to fix after the fact. A land plane may be a good investment there - easier to get level than a box blade I think
7. You need something that'll trench. Digging by hand sucks, and sounds like you'll do your irrigation bit by bit so renting will also be a pain. Don't forget to make a plan of where you put all the pipes - you'll forget over time and need to fix things sometimes. Maybe a back hoe is a good idea, personally for trenching irrigation (if there's no services near) I like a chain digger - called a ditch witch around here, not sure if you get that brand in USA. When I did mine I cut 1 power cable, two other water lines, and my sewerage line. Might not have saved as much time as I hoped.
8. L is the minimum if you want to move loads like pavers. Think about 3ph mounted forks - pallets of pavers are very heavy, even on the 3ph it may be more than you can move. You won't easily move a pallet of pavers on a loader, even on a much bigger machine. You may need a loading ramp near your gateway if trucks won't come down your drive. You can get a 3ph mounted forklift attachment, which is another way to lift heavy loads like that

 

[imnukensc]

The only advice I will give you is stay the hell away from bamboo unless you like constantly cutting it back. That crap spreads everywhere and once it's established about the only way to get rid of it is to move.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Lots to think about for sure.

In my humble opinion, the biggest advantage of Land Pride stuff is the financing that is available to those that wish to finance it.

I am very happy with my Homestead Box blade, and I would caution you against a BB that has those "funky clips" that hold the scarifiers in. I would only choose one that uses a regular "pin" to hold it in place.

Since I am certainly NOT a "financial advisor" is sounds like you plan on doing a ton of work, so a little "soul searching" as far as "budget" goes is in order. I am the type of guy that would rather "have it and not need it VS. need it and not have it" .....which kind of guy are you?

I like my PHD kinda....I think it was worth it, even though I have only needed it a few times.

To me it sounds like you would benefit from a tiller more than a grapple, but both are handy and that 0% is only for the "initial purchase" so think about that too I guess.

Good luck and remember when you get it......pics or it didn't happen

 

[PoTreeBoy]

My opinion, FWIW, is you'd like an L2502HST just fine. I think I've read on here that the whine is much less on the new model. I also think the 2502 will lift the same as the 3302. The HST is much better suited for loader work. Having driven transmission-driven and independent PTOs, no way I'd go with the tran-drive, if I had the choice. Even drilling post holes, you may need to inch the tractor while drilling.

I think R1s would work just fine, but you could consider the R14s if available and $ is no problem.

Oh yeah, a backhoe is not the way to go for irrigation. It's expensive, inconvenient and moves too much dirt for trenching small lines (I'm assuming you're talking 3/4" or smaller). If you're going less than a foot deep, you can make a trench with one shank of a BB or one fork on the loader. Yes, you'd need to clean it out by hand. Or, if you have a subsoiler, you can modify it to pull in coiled pipe for you.

 

[rc51stierhoff]

Good day and good luck. Sounds like you have some fun projects ahead of you.

Lots of good info above…so I probably don’t have much to offer, but:

1. Will you ever need to haul the tractor? If size impacts current available tow vehicle and trailer that could be an expense not considered.

2. Regarding machine size, you have a lot of loader work as described ahead of you…I’d be thinking about ballast options. And before you get to that I’d recommend try to estimate how much weight you want to be able to safely lift and move, and that might direct you to correct machine size. If you plan to move round bales, pallets of feed, pallets of brink/block or totes of water, that might suggest which machine will fit your needs best.

3. For all the work or tasks, I suspect you will be moving some hand tools etc along with you…I’d be thinking about carryall or however you plan to ballast your machine to be able to haul some tools / supplies for your shores.

In most cases you can search old threads that are specific to you implements/machine/task to give some ideas as well.

Good luck.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

I almost forgot to give my "normal advice" (especially when 0% is involved)

I have that thing on 90% of the time.

I love that thing.

 

[Yotekiller]

Sounds to me that you have very little use for PTO implements. Why are you looking at the 3302? The 2502 will do everything a 3302 will do but has no emissions crap or electronics to go bad.

 

[Vlach7]

Unless you're getting a sweet deal, a manual trans is good for field plowing/mowing, but the work you mentioned, I have had both and HST is a lot nicer/easier.

 

[MyakkaCodeOrange]

So many questions!! Lucky we have answers.

I'll pick and choose.

1. Live PTO. Will work any time clutch is released. So, put tractor in neutral, release clutch, PTO is running. Thanks -- I figured this would be how it works but did not want to assume
2. HST. I think you'd be better with HST, but I understand your reasons. Mum has an old Massey Ferguson TEA (60-70 years old), it goes fine. You'll be OK with a gear drive and you won't really know what you're missing, so it won't matter to you
3. I think in sand you want wider tires. Ag tires are narrow, so they dig in. Probably won't matter for your use, but your dealer is probably right on R4 tires. That's what I figured, thanks for the 2nd opinion
4. Dad had a 3ph post hole digger. Serious guys reckon they're dangerous, around here everyone moved to post rammers. For your use, in sandy soil, I'd guess they're just fine, and far cheaper than a rammer / far faster than a shovel. Just don't get anywhere near it with loose clothing, don't have kids or gormless people around when using it. It's kind of like having a PTO shaft on the back of your tractor that permanently has no guard on it. Neil from Messicks gives a story about why you don't like unguarded PTO shafts - guy he interviewed had one arm or one leg I think. People have been doing it for decades and only a few people have died, so long as you're careful it's an OK decision
5. The 3rd position valve kit is a 3rd valve for the rear remotes. Different thing. A third function can be installed by someone reasonably handy, but my recollection is that many dealers would sell and install it for about the same cost as you just buying it outright. That may no longer be true. But they may be better at it than you are. Conversely, many people complaining about the sub-par install their dealer did, with hoses hanging where they can get grabbed. So probably depends on dealer
6. What are you actually doing with the soil? Does it need to be ripped, or just dump topsoil/mulch etc on top, and then plant into that? I'm not great on lawns, but my general experience is that grass will grow in anything if you give it fertiliser and water. And over time it will improve the soil. So maybe buying a cheap fertiliser spreader, and putting in some good irrigation, is a better process? You do need to do the initial levelling though, otherwise you'll be mowing bumpy land forever, and it's hard to fix after the fact. A land plane may be a good investment there - easier to get level than a box blade I think What we will be doing with the soil -- well, the idea is to grow grass and/or suitable ground cover (wild flower, pea, sweet potato, etc) in the areas that are not "law". Sure, grass will grow about anywhere ... but I've found in hot humid very sandy FL... seed can be finicky and or washout,. So it generally helps to rip up or soften up the surface layer first. Also the uneven ground you mention is a thing. If we just grew grass around the existing vegetation, it would be very bumpy.. Plus the idea is with ground cover and mulching, we can hopefully build up a rich layer of surface soil over the sand the retains water and fosters green growth.
7. You need something that'll trench. Digging by hand sucks, and sounds like you'll do your irrigation bit by bit so renting will also be a pain. Don't forget to make a plan of where you put all the pipes - you'll forget over time and need to fix things sometimes. Maybe a back hoe is a good idea, personally for trenching irrigation (if there's no services near) I like a chain digger - called a ditch witch around here, not sure if you get that brand in USA. When I did mine I cut 1 power cable, two other water lines, and my sewerage line. Might not have saved as much time as I hoped.
8. L is the minimum if you want to move loads like pavers. Think about 3ph mounted forks - pallets of pavers are very heavy, even on the 3ph it may be more than you can move. You won't easily move a pallet of pavers on a loader, even on a much bigger machine. You may need a loading ramp near your gateway if trucks won't come down your drive. You can get a 3ph mounted forklift attachment, which is another way to lift heavy loads like that.

 

[MyakkaCodeOrange]

Sounds to me that you have very little use for PTO implements. Why are you looking at the 3302? The 2502 will do everything a 3302 will do but has no emissions crap or electronics to go bad.

Actually, I did think of that... as Runs With Scissors said "I am the type of guy that would rather "have it and not need it VS. need it and not have it" .....which kind of guy are you?" -- I am more the type of would rather have it and not need it, than vice versa ... so that goes hand in hand with my philosophy of 'buy the biggest / most powerful you can afford." I know the L3302 is not a huge step up from the L2502.

 

[MyakkaCodeOrange]

Sounds to me that you have very little use for PTO implements. Why are you looking at the 3302? The 2502 will do everything a 3302 will do but has no emissions crap or electronics to go bad.

That is true... I can get the L3302DT into my budget and it's al ittle more powerful, so...
Although I am not a fan of the silly DPF and regen.
I still fail to understand how running (or worse, idling) your tractor for 30+ minutes at a high RPM and burning more fuel for nothing is better for the environment...but no doubt the environmentalists are experienced farmers and equipment operators and know far better than I do...

 

[MyakkaCodeOrange]

I almost forgot to give my "normal advice" (especially when 0% is involved)

View attachment 113990


I have that thing on 90% of the time.

I love that thing.

Funny enough ... in my initial thinking, I was very interested in a backhoe option. Based on what I described, the sales person at the dealer basically talked me out of it. He stated sure it's great when you need it but it's a huge cost at ~$10K for an implement you may only need once in a while, and you can rent when you need real backhoe work. I would still like a backhoe, but his argument made sense to me at the time.

 

[MyakkaCodeOrange]

So interesting update. Like everyone budget is important and I like making a deal (I'm in sales), so I have also researched the Kioti / Bobcat tractors. One Bobcat dealer has quoted me the CT2025MST for $4K less than the Kubota L3302DT. (I have to read up on the CT2025 specs to see if it's comparable or more like the L2502). Meanwhile, another dealer says he can do a good deal on (I think) a CK35 series... (waiting on that one).

So I know y'all are fans of the orange tractors... but y'all also like tractors in general... so any thoughts or opinions on Kioti / Bobcat are appreciated. Talk me out of saving $4K (or more including lower taxes / fees) on the "other" brand.

Thanks again!

 

[NorthwoodsLife]

Everyone pretty much answered everything.
But I'll add a couple things...
The box blade aka scraper will handle the rippers just fine. No deficated ripper needed especially on sandy soil.
The L2502 would be my preferrence over the L3302 for reasons mentioned.
I would have bought a manual with shuttle over my current HST, even though HST is easier and faster. Why, because it so much easier to repair IMO. And I've run stick shift tractors for years. The HST whine doesn't bother me at all.... Blue tooth headphones. But I couldn't get a cab with a stick. So I have an HST and no regrets.

 

[NorthwoodsLife]

So interesting update. Like everyone budget is important and I like making a deal (I'm in sales), so I have also researched the Kioti / Bobcat tractors. One Bobcat dealer has quoted me the CT2025MST for $4K less than the Kubota L3302DT. (I have to read up on the CT2025 specs to see if it's comparable or more like the L2502). Meanwhile, another dealer says he can do a good deal on (I think) a CK35 series... (waiting on that one).

So I know y'all are fans of the orange tractors... but y'all also like tractors in general... so any thoughts or opinions on Kioti / Bobcat are appreciated. Talk me out of saving $4K (or more including lower taxes / fees) on the "other" brand.

Thanks again!

Kubota is to Kioti and Bobcat, like Lexus is to Hyndai.

 

[MyakkaCodeOrange]

Quick question— is not the Kioti / Bobcat “CT” series more akin to the BX series?
And the “CK” series more similar to the “L” series? I will have spend some time going through all the specs

anyone here who has owned both Kioti and Kubota? Maybe I should start a new thread

 

[fried1765]

My opinion, FWIW, is you'd like an L2502HST just fine. I think I've read on here that the whine is much less on the new model. I also think the 2502 will lift the same as the 3302. The HST is much better suited for loader work. Having driven transmission-driven and independent PTOs, no way I'd go with the tran-drive, if I had the choice. Even drilling post holes, you may need to inch the tractor while drilling.

I think R1s would work just fine, but you could consider the R14s if available and $ is no problem.

Oh yeah, a backhoe is not the way to go for irrigation. It's expensive, inconvenient and moves too much dirt for trenching small lines (I'm assuming you're talking 3/4" or smaller). If you're going less than a foot deep, you can make a trench with one shank of a BB or one fork on the loader. Yes, you'd need to clean it out by hand. Or, if you have a subsoiler, you can modify it to pull in coiled pipe for you.

OP could buy a 3pt. pipe puller, from Agri Supply for about $350, that will be very easily be pulled on the 3pt. hitch.

 

[drumminj]

* Agree with others that if you're not going to use PTO-based implements, have a hard look at the 2502 vs the 3302. Loader capacity and machine weight should be the same.
* However, I was going to throw out having a look at the L3560LE. Maybe it's more than you need, but if you're looking at the 3302, you'll get a lot more tractor (since you were looking at the 4802) as far as weight and larger frame size, and potential lift capacity (you can get the LA805 with that, vs the LA535..so about 50% more lift than the standard L)
* For alternatives to Land Pride for implements, there are many options. I've bought many of mine (landscape rake, land plane, grapple) from HomesteadImplements. I also have pallet forks from Everything Attachments
* For moving all the landscaping supplies, I agree to think hard about the loader work and ballast. Today I got 2/3 a cubic yard of garden soil and while the L4701 was able to lift the tote out of the back of the truck, it was definitely light in the rear and tippy (I had my 550lb land plane on back -- been meaning to build some shelves to hold additonal weight/ballast on it). I could barely get it out of the truck at full height, and I believe (but am not certain - can't find the specs) the 4701 can lift heigher than the other standard Ls. Not saying you need to get a bigger tractor, but calling out some aspects I know I didn't think about when buying.

As a tool, it sounds like you'll use the tractor a lot. Maybe not every day, but I think you'll be happy to have a capable machine to use when you need it, vs renting

Edit to add: Sounds like a very fun and exciting project you have in front of you. Congrats on that!

 

[drumminj]

Whoah, all L02 models come with suspension seat?!?! OP, if you're cross-shopping with Kioti, that's something to keep in mind (I wish I had me one of those on my L01)