Need advice how to disable non-functional "safety" sensors

[Henro]

According to the wiring diagram from the manual....
...run a wire fromt the 'ST' terminal of the ign sw. to the 'S' terminal of the starter.
That will bypass both the PTO and HST safety switches and should allow starter to spin.
Providing you've got easy access to 'stuff', this could be a 10 minute-up and running deal.
certanly quicker than me typing how to do it...

Without checking the wiring diagram, that sounds like a way to eliminate ALL the safety interlocks. This is a step beyond the original question of how to eliminate a failed switch.

Personally, I doubt I would eliminate all safety interlocks. I suppose if you are sitting on the tractor it might not be a major issue when you turn the key to start...but...you never know what MIGHT happen one day.

 

[xrocketengineer]

Without checking the wiring diagram, that sounds like a way to eliminate ALL the safety interlocks. This is a step beyond the original question of how to eliminate a failed switch.

Personally, I doubt I would eliminate all safety interlocks. I suppose if you are sitting on the tractor it might not be a major issue when you turn the key to start...but...you never know what MIGHT happen one day.

I agree wit Henro. If you know exactly what is failed and you bypass that single issue, then you understand and you can accept the consequences of that single issue. If you bypass everything, now you have a bunch more of stacked consequences that you might not even be able to foresee. Particularly if you hot wire from the switch to the starter without disconnecting the original circuit which now is in parallel. What if you problem is a temporary short to ground in the original wiring? Short to another wire? Temporary open due to dirty/corroded connection? What could happen? There are so many weird things that happen with electrical circuits that is very hard to try to tell what can happen with a short cut until it has actually happened and you are investigating a mishap.
Let me tell you a true story that happened at the Johnson Space Center many years ago. The astronauts at one of the underwater training facilities complained that they needed more lighting. So their support technicians and divers went off and bought some underwater flood lights, a couple of Diehards and charger from Sears. Then built a welded an aluminum box for the batteries with an external switch and water tight connections for the lights. A bolted on lid would allow for the batteries removal for charging and a gauge with a quick connect and valve would allow to put a few PSI of air in the box to prevent the salt water from getting in and in the event of leakage the bubbles from the box would be an indicator to get the box out of the water. The setup worked well for years but as personnel changed they decided to take shortcuts when charging the batteries avoiding the removal of the many lid bolts. The batteries were charged through the light connections and sometimes even the polarity was reversed during charging. Charging generates hydrogen gas and reversing the polarity even more.
One day, two technicians were preparing the box to go in the water. After removing the charger they noticed some pressure on the gauge and thought that some air pressure was left from the previous use. He added air to reach the prescribed pressure and plugged in the lights to be tested prior to go in the water.
The residual pressure he found on the gauge was that the box had hydrogen from the charging process. Then he added air. Now, it was time to test the lights and one of the techs turned on the switch. The switch was not hazard proof so there was spark. The hydrogen and air mix ignited, the box blew killing one tech and the other lost part of his hand. The lid of the box flew up and got imbedded on the concrete ceiling.
So, changes bring consequences that must be understood.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

The original request was to get the tractor to start, since there's only 2 'safety' switches in series, the bypass I suggested, at least according to the diagram, should get the tractor started. THAT will at least confirm one or BOTH the switches are defective. Then simply order the correct parts and install them.
if you're unsure about working on it, then of course, roll the dice and pay a dealer $100/hr to hoepfully ,maybe fix the problem.
If you're paranoid about 'tractor safety', then never ever buy a BX series. I know that you can drive a BX23S,factory fresh without the OPC module killing the engine. Pretty sure others have the desgin flaw as well.
Speaking of flaws...nearly every GM product STILL has a defective ignition switch,latest lawsuit cost GM 10s of millions....
As for the JSC 'engineers', they weren't to friggin smart..allowing a battery to be 'reversed' charged. A simple 5 cent component would have prevented that AND the tragic, needless loss of life.

 

[Henro]

The original request was to get the tractor to start, since there's only 2 'safety' switches in series, the bypass I suggested, at least according to the diagram, should get the tractor started. THAT will at least confirm one or BOTH the switches are defective. Then simply order the correct parts and install them.
if you're unsure about working on it, then of course, roll the dice and pay a dealer $100/hr to hoepfully ,maybe fix the problem.
If you're paranoid about 'tractor safety', then never ever buy a BX series. I know that you can drive a BX23S,factory fresh without the OPC module killing the engine. Pretty sure others have the desgin flaw as well.
Speaking of flaws...nearly every GM product STILL has a defective ignition switch,latest lawsuit cost GM 10s of millions....
As for the JSC 'engineers', they weren't to friggin smart..allowing a battery to be 'reversed' charged. A simple 5 cent component would have prevented that AND the tragic, needless loss of life.

My BX2200 has safety 3 switches, directional pedal, PTO and HI/N/LOW range (trusting my memory here). I would imagine the OP's tractor has at least three. New models also have the seat presence switch. Don't remember which model the OP has...

 

[xrocketengineer]

The original request was to get the tractor to start, since there's only 2 'safety' switches in series, the bypass I suggested, at least according to the diagram, should get the tractor started. THAT will at least confirm one or BOTH the switches are defective. Then simply order the correct parts and install them.
if you're unsure about working on it, then of course, roll the dice and pay a dealer $100/hr to hoepfully ,maybe fix the problem.
If you're paranoid about 'tractor safety', then never ever buy a BX series. I know that you can drive a BX23S,factory fresh without the OPC module killing the engine. Pretty sure others have the desgin flaw as well.
Speaking of flaws...nearly every GM product STILL has a defective ignition switch,latest lawsuit cost GM 10s of millions....
As for the JSC 'engineers', they weren't to friggin smart..allowing a battery to be 'reversed' charged. A simple 5 cent component would have prevented that AND the tragic, needless loss of life.

You are correct. You have the knowledge and experience to be able to come up with the workaround safely knowing and understanding what is going on. Other people might not and that is when the dealer solution comes into play.
As far as the JSC incident goes, the incident investigation revealed that there was no engineering involved in the original design of the lighting setup, no documentation, no written procedures, no safety assessment and on and on. The bottom line was that the best intentions to solve a problem missed things down the road. And with the lack of knowledge by the users in this case, things snowballed to the point of a tragic accident.

 

[DevilDog]

Quite honestly I don't think I would post on an internet forum how to delete a safety device

Really, Come on man! People come here on this forum for help with their tractors, no body is build a bomb, Geez!

 

[ruger1980]

Really, Come on man! People come here on this forum for help with their tractors, no body is build a bomb, Geez!

I've sat in too many depositions and court rooms to offer advice like this. Anyone publicly admitting to deleting a safety device or advising to delete one is a fool.
If anything should ever happen, everything you post on a forum is admissible as evidence.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re: Anyone publicly admitting to deleting a safety device or advising to delete one is a fool.
Well, there are hundeds if not thousands of manuals that actually tell HOW TO BYPASS 'safety switches', so are they 'guilty' in your eyes ?

re: If anything should ever happen, everything you post on a forum is admissible as evidence.
Maybe, but highly doubtful as far as 'evidence' as there is no direct path between this 'set of words' and me. At the very ,very best you might possibly 'link to my PC but , oopsy, no PROOF , that I actually typed the reply...

 

[xrocketengineer]

Really, Come on man! People come here on this forum for help with their tractors, no body is build a bomb, Geez!

Is that what you think, infidel???

Jeez, lighten up guys!

 

[lugbolt]

I know of a dealer...or more specifically a person who worked at a dealer. Since I also worked at a dealer, I know people, the one I am speaking of worked at a different dealer. Not going to say where or what kind of dealer for obvious reasons.

Customer walks into shop, goes directly to said tech in the service department and asks tech how to bypass a switch for testing purposes. Tech tells customer. Customer goes back to the tractor (home? Farm? Dunno) bypasses the switch, reaches over hits the key, and the tractor and cutter ran the guy over. Broken Femur, several ribs, multiple severe cuts. He lived. And sued the company that the tech worked for, and won (easily I might add). It was a slam dunk.

Just because he lived doesn't mean he lives without problems. I know him. He is not and was never the kind to go after someone legally, but with the bills he had and the problems he would likely have later on in life, he really didn't have a choice. People think that they just do it to make money. They do it to cover their expenses and the legal costs, in some cases additional to cover future costs (estimated) related to the event.

It happened, and happens. We live in a litigous society, so whatever you tell someone be it in person or on the phone or online, can potentially be used against you. Keep that in mind.

On the switches some of them are NO/NC switches meaning you can't just push the button in manually and expect all functions to work properly. They are designed that way on purpose. Not all of them are no/nc but a lot are. I'm not saying which ones are and which ones aren't. Your wiring diagram will tell you that. Can't read a wiring diagram? Hire a tech or a dealer to fix your switches properly.

 

[whitetiger]

s for the JSC 'engineers', they weren't to friggin smart..allowing a battery to be 'reversed' charged. A simple 5 cent component would have prevented that AND the tragic, needless loss of life.

Right up until someone bypassed the "5 cent component" and someone gets injured or killed.
I could tell a lot of incidents, 4 year old sitting on a tractor with a defeated clutch pedal switch crushes father and grandfather against a grain truck.
A young father of 4 operating a borrowed tractor with a defeated seat switch runs over himself, with both tractor, and rotary cutter.
2 young boys playing on a large zero turn mower with defeated seat and PTO safety switches. One turns the key, the other has his arm under the deck.

 

[David M]

Would that be a 10, maybe 12 gauge wire, Jay?

 

[GreensvilleJay]

18 might do, I can't find the wiring diagram on this PC. Kubs good at posting the wire size in metric of course.....
whatever you have that is similar to the original wiring. check the fuse protecting it.

as for the 'horror stories' posted, most of them are due to negligence,like the last one. IE parents leaving keys in tractor so children can PLAY.....

 

[Ikc1990]

It is a good chance and easy cheap change to just replace the pto switch. About 5 too 10 minutes and 20 to 30 bucks.

 

[GeoHorn]

For all the online-lawyers here at OTT, here’s a DIRECT QUOTE from an OEM’s maintenance manual providing instructions for inspecting the interior of a fuel tank: “ With a torch, Inspect the interior of the tank....”

I guess you amateur lawyers can expect to get rich on that.... but the problem you’ll have is... it is a British built aeroplane.... and a TORCH is what you must use to see the dark corners of the fuel tank.
Tell us how you intend to prosecute your case against the OEM in this matter.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

For all the online-lawyers here at OTT, here’s a DIRECT QUOTE from an OEM’s maintenance manual providing instructions for inspecting the interior of a fuel tank: “ With a torch, Inspect the interior of the tank....”

I guess you amateur lawyers can expect to get rich on that.... but the problem you’ll have is... it is a British built aeroplane.... and a TORCH is what you must use to see the dark corners of the fuel tank.
Tell us how you intend to prosecute your case against the OEM in this matter.

The old grey airplane case. Can't be imported or used except in UK. Not intended for the US market.

 

[Crash277]

For all the online-lawyers here at OTT, here’s a DIRECT QUOTE from an OEM’s maintenance manual providing instructions for inspecting the interior of a fuel tank: “ With a torch, Inspect the interior of the tank....”

I guess you amateur lawyers can expect to get rich on that.... but the problem you’ll have is... it is a British built aeroplane.... and a TORCH is what you must use to see the dark corners of the fuel tank.
Tell us how you intend to prosecute your case against the OEM in this matter.

a torch is what the brits call a flashlight. That is pretty funny though.

 

[johnjk]

a torch is what the brits call a flashlight. That is pretty funny though.

On my B1800 I have 3 safety switches. All checked good but one had higher resistance when closed resulting in a voltage drop that did not get me the 12v needed to engage the starter. I could have replaced the defective switch but it was less expensive to put in a relay that takes that lower voltage as a signal and engages the starter solenoid. If and when that switch fails completely, I will replace it but for now it keeps the safety switches in place and operational and no more intermittent starting woes. Get the WSM . Lots of good folks here to help you work through it. Yes you need to pull some panels but at least on the B1800 and my B3200 the harness and switches are easily accessible

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re: Tell us how you intend to prosecute your case against the OEM in this matter.

simple,
a British airplane was bought by an American, manuals came with it to Texas, pilot says 'engine runs rough', mechanics start reading the manual..... eventually read the 'passage'.... lawyer for the WIDOW of the mechanic who used a 'torch while inspecting the fueltank , files lawsuits at everyone......including the OEM...

The sad thing is this kind of lawsuit probably happens every day......

Something to ponder... Lawfirm in Buffalo YV commercial says they've won over 2 BILLION in settlements,so taking a 1/3 cut (on average), the firm has pulled in 750-800 MILLION. I wonder WHY they're still in business ?Can't be 40 in the firm, that's over 20 million EACH. I KNOW I wouldn't be working if I had 20 mill in MY wallet....

 

[GeoHorn]

The old grey airplane case. Can't be imported or used except in UK. Not intended for the US market.

Of course that’s incorrect.... British aeroplanes fly here every day, many of them owned by Americans.... ever ride in an AirBus? (Consortium between the British and French. Ever hear of the Marines “jump-jet Harrier?” (It’s a British Aerospace product.) Ever ride in a Boeing 747? (Flaps made in England.). Etc etc etc.