Napa Premium Hydraulic Fluid and Performance - B2150hst 4wd

[TheOldHokie]

Dan said:
"I am the curious sort and would be interested in knowing what product your owners manual actually recommended. I looked for a freebie download and could not find one. It appears the G1800 was introduced in Nov 1988 which predates the introduction of SUDT by a couple of years...."

Here's a cropped page from the WSM:
View attachment 88074
And, here's the Super UDT label:
View attachment 88075

So, ya, SUDT was not cited for use by the G1800 WSM in 1988.
I guess we could debate the meanings of "UNIVERSAL" and "Fully compatible"...

Also, the Troubleshooting section of the WSM for the transmission lists "Transmission oil insufficient" as the first Probable Cause under the Symptom "Noise from Transmission". The Solution is to "Replenish".

That's been done. Symptom gone.

I submit that there are several potential reasons for the transmission oil to be insufficient.
Your Mileage May Vary (YMMV)

Thanks,
-Paul

When all else fails lets turn the discussion into a debate of semantics.

There are a lot of terms that are common to the lubrication industry but misunderstood by the consumer. There is no need to debate the meaning of Universal in this context because it is well defined.

Universal Tractor Transmission Oil (UTTO) is a standard industry term for a defacto formulation of tractor oil that performs multiple functions in common sump machines:

• Final drive lubricant
• Transmission lubricant
• Wet brake and clutch lubricant
• General purpose hydraulic oil
• Rust and corrosion control

It should not be confused with a Super Tractor Oil Universal (STOU) that does all of that and can also be used as an engine oil.

Those are both established terms that define the operating characteristics of a specific class of lubricants and no different than Heavy Duty Engine Oil (HDEO), Passenger Car Engine Oil (PCEO), Manual Transmission Lubricant (MTL), Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF), Turbine Oil, etc.

Dan

 

[RBsingl]

All of the temp/viscosity specs can be identical and you can still have issues with non-OEM blended lubricants.

For many years I owned a 2006 GMC 2500HD pickup with the Allison 1000 series auto. Allison uses Transynd fluid as their normal fluid but when the Allison 1000 was first used in GM HD pickups, GM's Dex III was also allowed. In 2006, GM changed from Dex III to VI as their target fluid but a few of the seals used in the 1000 weren't compatible with Dex VI and hardened/degraded over time. I switched my 2001 GM to Traysynd and did the same with my 2006 and now 2018 and never had an issue but several owners who used Dex VI with the Allsion 1000 installed in late 2005/early 2006 vehicles had issues in later years due to fluid incompatibility.

When my Kubota F2690 is finally delivered, hopefully sometime in November, it will get the recommended Kubota fluid. Saving a few dollars on an multi thousand dollar piece of equipment is poor risk management.

Rodger

 

[NorCalOrange]

Out of curiosity I wanted to know what the Kubota dealer has to say about hydro fluids. in short, SUDT2 is worth seriously considering if the tractor is in warranty. Otherwise, owners use JD, Napa, Chevron, he actually mentioned those three, and he has no concerns about that. And for my B2150, he said to buy a fluid that is UDT compatible. This mirrors the B2150 manual Dan posted for us. See attachment.

The dealer I spoke with was not the local one. I called them first but the line was busy and went into v-mail.

 

[TheOldHokie]

All of the temp/viscosity specs can be identical and you can still have issues with non-OEM blended lubricants.

For many years I owned a 2006 GMC 2500HD pickup with the Allison 1000 series auto. Allison uses Transynd fluid as their normal fluid but when the Allison 1000 was first used in GM HD pickups, GM's Dex III was also allowed. In 2006, GM changed from Dex III to VI as their target fluid but a few of the seals used in the 1000 weren't compatible with Dex VI and hardened/degraded over time. I switched my 2001 GM to Traysynd and did the same with my 2006 and now 2018 and never had an issue but several owners who used Dex VI with the Allsion 1000 installed in late 2005/early 2006 vehicles had issues in later years due to fluid incompatibility.

When my Kubota F2690 is finally delivered, hopefully sometime in November, it will get the recommended Kubota fluid. Saving a few dollars on an multi thousand dollar piece of equipment is poor risk management.

Rodger

Of course designs change and thats why the various ATF "standards" (primarily Dexron and Mercon) document all of their changes, publish their new specifications, and in most instances license those specifications for use. That is also a very complicated chemistry which varies significantly across transmissions whch is not the case for UTTO.

Deere, Case, New Holland, Agco, Ferguson, IH etc. all have published performance standards for their UTTO fluids. If Kubota has one I don't know what it is. The closest I have come is this:

Development of High Performance Transmission/Hydraulic Fluid (KUBOTA Super-UDT) Establishing the Specification and New Test Method

An agricultural tractor is a machine that performs many operations, such as land preparation, cultivation, towing and PTO operation, to name a few. In Japan it must operate in a wide variety of agricultural applications, such as paddy farming, upland farming, fruit farming and dairy farming, and in

www.sae.org

Its a pretty boring read but if you do buy a copy and read it you will find that Kubota wasn't doing anything other than monkey with the viscosity and altering the chemistry to absorb more water. The goal was a oil that pumped better when cold and could suck up more loose water without forming emulsions which clog filters. Basically following the lead of Deere's low viscosity HyGard. If you want tests here are the tests including the seal compatibilty requirements which are the same for UDT and SUDT. There is no doubt the SUDT is superior to a generic UTTO which is exactly what UDT is and always has been. That is why I use SUDT2 in my 2021 L3901.

If you go back to the beginning of this discussion you will see the tractor in question was a B2150 and the OEM recommended fluid for it WAS NEVER SUDT. It was UDT or any of a number of Kubota named EQUIVALENT generic UTTOs. And if you read the manual for your new machine it will probably have the same boiler plate used in most if not all of the other manuals which says UDT is still acceptable for use in it.

By all means for "an enhanced ownership experience" use the best fluid you can get (SUDT2) in your new machine but lets acknowledge that there is nothing special about a Kubota that makes the use of a premium industry UTTO unacceptable. Even Kubota stops short of making that claim.

Dan

 

[rentthis]

[

I own a B2150hsd 4wd, 24 hp / 20 hp pto, with only 700 hours on it. Bought it used with only 200 hours 20 years ago and immediately changed the hydro fluid with Napa premium due to now knowing the tractors history. I changed hydro fluid again at 400 hours and 600 hours. Each time with Napa premium and replacing filter and cleaning the screen. And yes, the manual calls for 300 hours for hydro fluid replacement.

The past couple years the tractor seems to go a little slower uphill, nothing steep just a moderate grade, with the brush hog attached. Is it possible that less power is hydro fluid related? I can not say this happened right after changing the hydro fluid 100 hours ago but the tractor does feel different the past year or two. And, a few years ago I noticed the hydro pump, or hydro system in general, seems to be a little bit noisier sometimes in hotter weather when raising the brush hog. Admittedly Kubota calls for a 4 ft on the B2150 and I use a 5 ft brush hog.

I researched and found a person changed from Napa premium to TSC premium brand and claimed the tractor had more power, performed better. This could be placebo related or perhaps new oil just performs better.

Anyway, is it possible changing the fluid from Napa to another brand could change the performance, even slightly? Or, the change in performance is relative to the tractor having more hours on it? I am considering going with Chevron 1000 THF or Delvac. It is not cold here so no reason for a synthetic. The last hydro fluid change was 6 years ago. And not to start an oil war regarding Napa products but per VOA's Napa synthetic motor oils are near the bottom when compared to other brand car oils regarding additives and such. Could not find a Napa Premium hydro fluid VOA so have no idea how it actually compares to others. My guess is Mobil and Chevron hydro fluids are also better products than Napa. Not that Napa is bad, does not work, or does not meet spec. I have used Napa 5w/30 and Napa oil filters more than once in my car.

I recently got a mailing regarding a class action suit against NAPA for failure of their tractor hydraulic oil. I buy a lot from NAPA but not their tractor hydraulic oil so I threw it away. I googled NAPA tractor hydraulic oil recall and came up with this link, https://www.warrentractorhydraulicfluidsettlement.com/. You might want to read and see if you fell victim to NAPA.

 

[TheOldHokie]

[



I recently got a mailing regarding a class action suit against NAPA for failure of their tractor hydraulic oil. I buy a lot from NAPA but not their tractor hydraulic oil so I threw it away. I googled NAPA tractor hydraulic oil recall and came up with this link, https://www.warrentractorhydraulicfluidsettlement.com/. You might want to read and see if you fell victim to NAPA.

I saw that suit when I was researching the NAPA oil - its related to the Coastal 303 oil which really is junk. Smitty's was another big supplier of that swill to TSC, Blaines, Farm and Ranch, Orschlins, etc and they have all settled for millions. The NAPA suit seems to be a follow on against Warren and NAPA for the same thing.

The NAPA Premium oil (Coastal MultiTrac) is a different product with an entirely different PDS. Just like engine oil, the really cheap tractor fluids probably aren't on a par with the more expensive name brand stuff.

Dan

 

[NorCalOrange]

[



I recently got a mailing regarding a class action suit against NAPA for failure of their tractor hydraulic oil. I buy a lot from NAPA but not their tractor hydraulic oil so I threw it away. I googled NAPA tractor hydraulic oil recall and came up with this link, https://www.warrentractorhydraulicfluidsettlement.com/. You might want to read and see if you fell victim to NAPA.

Already know about that. Its related to Napa "Quality" hydro fluid. aka 303. Not Napa "Premium" hydro fluid. Some discussions about this have confused the Quality fluid name with the Premium.