My snow removal/traction dilemma

[OntheRidge]

So, here is my issue. My driveway is paved, extremely steep(18 degrees at steepest part). i can push ok going down, but tractor loses traction (plow raised) coming back up. Yesterday when it broke traction it and I slid backwards down the hill. Scared the crap out of me, thought it was going to tip, it wanted to turn sideways even after I remembered to drop the plow. Current setup: L47 TLB, 7' snow plow blade with hydraulic angle and poly cutting edge, R4's with rubber tire chains. Rear tires not filled.
Possible solutions I have been looking at: Chains, studs, maybe put studs in rubber chains so they can be removed? Contract it and let some other fool deal with it? I'm at a loss here. Tractor is currently safe at bottom of hill. Been shoveling some and ice melting, but I can do limited time as I am recovering from foot surgery. I'm looking for a reasonable long term solution. Thanks! Any and all input?ideas welcome!

 

[Tughill Tom]

Rear ballast and back-up the drive, Screw in studs and remove. Thats how I do mine with the tractor, but mostly us the Can-am Defender Limited with power,6fft V plow now.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

That's a heavy tractor model and a steep driveway, BH on of off?
Look at R14 tires and have them professionally siped.
Euro tractors do it and they handle the wight a grades much better.
Studs and chains are great traction but they will both tear up pavement in a quick hurry.

If your only dealing with slick driveway a few times a year look at a sand spreader in the loader bucket if your using a three point blade, or a three point spreader if your using a front plow.

 

[RCW]

That sounds scary indeed!

Do you have the backhoe on now? If not some weight on the rear would help as @Tughill Tom said.

I don't know much about the rubber chains but have questioned their efficacy when I've seen pictures of them. I think some folks have good luck, but maybe they don't have 18 degree slopes to contend with......

 

[OntheRidge]

That's a heavy tractor model and a steep driveway, BH on of off?
Look at R14 tires and have them professionally siped.
Euro tractors do it and they handle the wight a grades much better.
Studs and chains are great traction but they will both tear up pavement in a quick hurry.

If your only dealing with slick driveway a few times a year look at a sand spreader in the loader bucket if your using a three point blade, or a three point spreader if your using a front plow.

Backhoe on, front snow blade. Just made arrangements to get rimguard added to rears.

 

[jimh406]

I would go with real chains even if just ladder chains. Btw, there used to be some comparison videos with chains vs not on YouTube.

 

[RCW]

Backhoe on, front snow blade. Just made arrangements to get rimguard added to rears.

With the backhoe on, you're not lacking for rear weight, tires loaded or not.

If I recall correctly, some TLB's don't recommend loaded tires with a BH.

My first thought would be to consider steel chains or studs on your R4's like @Tughill Tom and @jimh406 suggested. I have R4's on my little BX and I can't function without rear chains. I have front chains also but haven't used them (yet).

Maybe also consider R14's as @North Idaho Wolfman said. If I were to get another compact tractor, it would likely have R14's on it.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

curious.... this Current setup: L47 TLB, 7' snow plow blade with hydraulic angle

is the 'snow plow blade mounted on the FRONT of the tractor(LDR) or is it on the read (3PH) ?

 

[je1279]

Given your situation, I like @North Idaho Wolfman's idea of getting R14 tires and having them siped for additional traction. I think those will give you a significant improvement over your R4's with rubber chains. I still would advise only plowing downhill though and then backing back up as @Tughill Tom mentioned.

 

[Grandad4]

Not a situation for half-way messures. Go for the most effective setup you can put together. I plowed snow commrrcially with a 4x4 back in the day. It's hard to beat
chains on all 4 wheels - that's probably your best option to have enough available traction for plowing snow on an 18 degree grade (that's 36 percent !!).
Even after plowing, you would still have to consider sand or salt to mitigate remaining ice.
Hopefully it doesn't have turns or drop-offs.

 

[RCW]

Not a situation for half-way messures. Go for the most effective setup you can put together. I plowed snow commrrcially with a 4x4 back in the day. It's hard to beat
chains on all 4 wheels - that's probably your best option to have enough available traction for plowing snow on an 18 degree grade (that's 36 percent !!).
Even after plowing, you would still have to consider sand or salt to mitigate remaining ice.
Hopefully it doesn't have turns or drop-offs.

There's something to be said for that.

Sliding backwards would definitely make me want to find a different/better solution too.

I think @OntheRidge is WV or Virginia, so probably not a common problem.

But still enough to make me want to change my britches after.....

 

[jimh406]

The bottom of my driveway is banked going right as it transitions in the community road. I couldn't start to turnaround there without at least chains. But the first time I slid I was just on my minor sloped road to my upper shed. It's just sloped for drainage but otherwise flat.

That's when I knew I needed chains, for sure. . I didn't completely lose the rear end, but it started off the drive. R4 are pretty bad for lateral traction on packed snow/ice.

 

[mikester]

Studs and chains will do a number on asphalt and concrete. I have double ladder chains and I hate using them. I've permanently installed studs on my R4's and find they work pretty well on ice until they wear down. I recently had to add another row of studs.

I'd probably try siping/grooving the tires next as mire tires are wearing and the edges have rounded quite a bit.

 

[D2Cat]

Studs and chains will do a number on asphalt and concrete. I have double ladder chains and I hate using them. I've permanently installed studs on my R4's and find they work pretty well on ice until they wear down. I recently had to add another row of studs.

I'd probably try siping/grooving the tires next as mire tires are wearing and the edges have rounded quite a bit.

I have grooves on the R-4s on my L4240 and I can see their imprint on the snow I've been moving the last few days. I think the grooves do make a difference.

 

[pokey1416]

I have one like that and after sliding backwards into the road this is what works. Only plow down. Back up driveway only if it still has snow on it. Otherwise, back up in the yard adjacent to driveway. I was able to plow going up a few times but decided it wasn’t worth the pucker factor so now I stick to the above formula.

Explained problem to homeowner and he said ok to use the lawn if needed.

 

[Donystoy]

The one major hill on our driveway has a ditch on one side and a long steep slope on the other side ending up with trees as shown in picture. If there is a snow fall that I can still drive through I will just stay in the same tracks thus leaving undisturbed snow up to around six inches deep. This way if we have freezing rain or a warmup that creates ice, I just make a new track in the snow. My main concern is sliding sideways and off the driveway. If I do have to clean it with the blower I maintain banks on either side. If I think it is too risky to drive on any ice I always keep sand handy.

 

[Grandad4]

The one major hill on our driveway has a ditch on one side and a long steep slope on the other side ending up with trees as shown in picture. If there is a snow fall that I can still drive through I will just stay in the same tracks thus leaving undisturbed snow up to around six inches deep. This way if we have freezing rain or a warmup that creates ice, I just make a new track in the snow. My main concern is sliding sideways and off the driveway. If I do have to clean it with the blower I maintain banks on either side. If I think it is too risky to drive on any ice I always keep sand handy.

You have a ski jump there! The kids probably love it but a summertime regrading project would make your winter chores easier & safer.

 

[HorsPower]

R4's are the worst on hard pack snow / ice! I have a L5740 with filled rear tires, max rear wheel weights, plow / or blower on the front and typically a heavy implement on the back when moving snow. I had questioned grooving / siping the tires for awhile and had ordered the tire groover off of amazon... I had the tool sitting in my shop.

Finally the other night on a particularly icy hilly driveway, after sliding off of the driveway 3 times, I pulled the tractor into my shop and spent about 45 minutes grooving all 4 tires. Went back out on the same driveway, which at this point was later in the evening and even icier. It was a NIGHT and DAY difference. The tractor crawled up the icy hill with ease and quit sliding sideways on the cross sloped portions of the driveway. I was amazed at the difference.

I can't speak for rubber tire chains, but I can firmly attest at the improvement of grooving the R4s. I can now plow uphill without having to get a high speed running start. I'm sure turf / snow tires would be even better, but for my application I couldn't justify dedicated snow tires. $100 on Amazon for a groover, 45 minutes of time, and then you can sell it to a friend after you do your own tractor!

 

[je1279]

R4's are the worst on hard pack / snow ice! I have a L5740 with filled rear tires, max rear wheel weights, plow / or blower on the front and typically a heavy implement on the back when moving snow. I had questioned grooving / siping the tires for awhile and had ordered the tire groover off of amazon... I had the tool was sitting in my shop.

Finally the other night on a particularly icy hilly driveway, after sliding off of the driveway 3 times, I pulled the tractor into my shop and spent about 45 minutes grooving all 4 tires. Went back out on the same driveway, which at this point was later in the evening and even icier. It was a NIGHT and DAY difference. The tractor crawled up the icy hill with ease and quit sliding sideways on the cross sloped portions of the driveway. I was amazed at the difference.

I can't speak for rubber tire chains, but I can firmly attest at the improvement of grooving the R4s. I can now plow uphill without having to get a high speed running start. I'm sure turf / snow tires would be even better, but for my application I couldn't justify dedicated snow tires. $100 on Amazon for a groover, 45 minutes of time, and then you can sell it to a friend after you do your own tractor!

Nice work on that grooving job!

 

[chim]

R4's are the worst on hard pack / snow ice! I have a L5740 with filled rear tires, max rear wheel weights, plow / or blower on the front and typically a heavy implement on the back when moving snow. I had questioned grooving / siping the tires for awhile and had ordered the tire groover off of amazon... I had the tool was sitting in my shop.

Finally the other night on a particularly icy hilly driveway, after sliding off of the driveway 3 times, I pulled the tractor into my shop and spent about 45 minutes grooving all 4 tires. Went back out on the same driveway, which at this point was later in the evening and even icier. It was a NIGHT and DAY difference. The tractor crawled up the icy hill with ease and quit sliding sideways on the cross sloped portions of the driveway. I was amazed at the difference.

I can't speak for rubber tire chains, but I can firmly attest at the improvement of grooving the R4s. I can now plow uphill without having to get a high speed running start. I'm sure turf / snow tires would be even better, but for my application I couldn't justify dedicated snow tires. $100 on Amazon for a groover, 45 minutes of time, and then you can sell it to a friend after you do your own tractor!

Some people can't believe the difference grooves can make. I'll admit to having doubts the first time it came up on a board. One of the first places appeared on Tracrtorbynet in a (very) long thread listed below. If you can make it or skip to page 66 I have a post with some information and a couple pics of our driveway hill.

I borrowed an Ideal groover for the l3200 and again for the l4240. When the front tires on the L4240 wore to the point of needing a re-groove I bought my own groover. The rears didn't really need it but I re-grooved them anyway. The outside of the fronts wore down to the bottom of the grooves from roading it.

Snow Equipment Owning/Operating - Cutting / Groving / Siping R-4 for snow

I know R-4's in snow has been discussed to death but after a quick search I couldn't find anything about cutting them for better performance. I recently picked up an Ideal Heated Knife, also known as a tire groover. With a little help from a forced air heater to really get the tires warm, it...

www.tractorbynet.com