MX5800 - Oil very dark AFTER 50 hour oil change...

[edisonck]

I recently had my 50 hour service completed at the local dealership where I bought my tractor (part of the deal...). I put ~4 hours on it and then checked the oil out of habit. I was very surprised to see the oil being very dark and 'dirty' in color versus clean/translucent. They used the 10W-30 Kubota oil. I have a Ford 860 as a comparison and the oil takes many hours to get 'dirty'. Is this typical with MX5800 and/or diesel tractors??

Thanks!

Ed

 

[SidecarFlip]

Color means nothing but I suspect the Kubota oil is not a synthetic. Synthetic oils don't darken quickly whereas dino oils do and in as much as it's an emissions engine, the oil will darken more quickly anyway.

I know the 5-40 T6 I use in both my M's stays a translucent green and don't ever get dark between changes, why I rely on an oil analysis to tell me when it's change time.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Dis you happen to check it BEFORE you ran it after the change or did you assume the dealer filled it to the correct amount?

 

[Benhameen]

I’ve always thought that diesel oil turns dark very quickly verses a gas engine. I’m sure there are others here with a lot more expierence than I have with diesel oil, this is the first Diesel engine I’ve owned.

 

[dneal]

Motor oil in a diesel will start to blacken almost immediately, and it doesn't matter if it's dino oil or synthetic. Don't worry about the color.

30 years of Army maintenance.

 

[JohnDB]

I recently had my 50 hour service completed at the local dealership where I bought my tractor (part of the deal...). I put ~4 hours on it and then checked the oil out of habit. I was very surprised to see the oil being very dark and 'dirty' in color versus clean/translucent. They used the 10W-30 Kubota oil. I have a Ford 860 as a comparison and the oil takes many hours to get 'dirty'. Is this typical with MX5800 and/or diesel tractors??

Thanks!

Ed

After 4 hours I wouldn't expect completely clean/transluscent, but not very dark/dirty colour either so I wouldn't discount the possibility that they never changed it. If they don't admit the possibility that they made a mistake and never changed it, talk to someone about getting a sample analysed, maybe that could tell you whether it had 4 hours on it or 50. Did they do the other things that they were supposed to?

 

[SidecarFlip]

Motor oil in a diesel will start to blacken almost immediately, and it doesn't matter if it's dino oil or synthetic. Don't worry about the color.

30 years of Army maintenance.

Not true and it most certainly does matter. Probably you used dino oil and that was 30 years ago. Oil has changed and synthetic oils don't turn black that fast today. Besides the black color has nothing to do with lubrication quality.

Not gonna argue with you about it. I stated my position and I'm done with this discussion.

 

[Pau7220]

Not true and it most certainly does matter. Probably you used dino oil and that was 30 years ago. Oil has changed and synthetic oils don't turn black that fast

Agreed. Especially if it's running as clean as it's supposed to. I rarely see soot from my stack ... only when it's lugging.
Besides combustion by-products from blow-by darkening oil, the cooking (breakdown) of viscosity improvers also darken oil. Synthetics don't need or use viscosity improvers.
For comparison, After an hour of running on my 6-71 Detroit with SAE 40 T-1 and the new oil is the color of what I took out.

 

[torch]

I find my oil is dark again within minutes of a change. I think there is some pooling going on or passages that don't drain by gravity. If I change it twice, running it for 5 minutes between, then it stays relatively clear for a while.

Maybe your engine is similar?

 

[Pau7220]

One more thing to keep in mind... many 4wd Kubota tractors have split oil pans for the driveshaft and have 2 drain plugs. If they gave it to the " new guy" because it was just an oil change.... it could have been missed. Dealers aren't perfect. Crawl under it and check for evidence... wrench marks on the paint, etc.
Another thought... did they just change the oil and leave the filter?

 

[Cathy Liebchen]

Another good reason to do the oil changes yourself. Our oil blackens pretty fast in both units

 

[edisonck]

Hello, all! Thanks for your feedback- I really appreciate it. To answer a few questions:

1. - No... I didn't check it immediately after.
   1. Candidly, I wouldn't think we would have to... However, it seems like it is generally accepted that implements quality of work is 'low' and we should always double check work - which I can not understand...
   2. My experience is the quality of work is 'low' at the dealership that I work at, as many things were missed on my new tractor (I caught them due to "Tractor Mike's new tractor checklist") and the 50 hour service requirements were missed- even though I provided a copy of the maintenance manual and highlighted the required items.
   3. However, I want to support the local dealership and local businesses in general
2. The 50 hour maintenance was part of my new tractor purchase
   1. That is why I didn't do it myself
   2. I was charged for both the filter and oil change
   3. I'll see if I can see wrench marks on the oil plan bolts

What would you do if it was your tractor? I need to connect with the implement, but I am not confident they will give any acceptable guidance and/or action.

Ed

 

[SidecarFlip]

Agreed. Especially if it's running as clean as it's supposed to. I rarely see soot from my stack ... only when it's lugging.
Besides combustion by-products from blow-by darkening oil, the cooking (breakdown) of viscosity improvers also darken oil. Synthetics don't need or use viscosity improvers.
For comparison, After an hour of running on my 6-71 Detroit with SAE 40 T-1 and the new oil is the color of what I took out.

DD's, especially the 2 stroke ones are very good at darkening the oil. lot's of blowby. Even the newer DDEC's darken the oil quickly, not blowby but emissions related soot. I'm almost a full season on both my M's and the lube oil is still not dark but they don't get idled much for one and are usually getting worked and hard.

 

[torch]

Does the oil filter have any sign of factory engine paint on it? I seem to recall reading that Kubota puts the oil filters on before they paint the engine. If there is engine paint on the oil filter then guaranteed it was not changed.

(The opposite is not true because I could be wrong or it could have been only with certain models)

 

[dneal]

Not true and it most certainly does matter. Probably you used dino oil and that was 30 years ago. Oil has changed and synthetic oils don't turn black that fast today. Besides the black color has nothing to do with lubrication quality.

Not gonna argue with you about it. I stated my position and I'm done with this discussion.

You quote me, say it's not true, don't want to argue, and are done with the discussion... and then post again?

Silly.

You misread 30 years of Army maintenance as "Army maintenance 30 years ago".

Believe what you want. It's demonstrable that new oil in a diesel engine turns black very quickly. That's probably why everyone else is saying it too.

But hey, no need for you to argue about it.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Not going to.

 

[Russell King]

What would you do if it was your tractor? I need to connect with the implement, but I am not confident they will give any acceptable guidance and/or action.

Ed

Confused by this...
Implement and engine oil never see each other.
Transmission fluid will be mixed with the flow in the hydraulic operated implement in most cases.

What fluid is dark? Engine oil or fluid somewhere else?

 

[edisonck]

It's strange to me that people are having different experiences with whether or not the oil darkens quickly in diesel tractors. Then again, I don't know anything about diesel motors. Also, it seems like 'Sidecarflip' is responding with a little too much emotion given a difference in opinion! I tend to think 'positive intent' with people trying to help... Again, strange there are such polar experiences.

Russell King- I am using the word Implement to describe the dealership where I purchased the tractor versus something you attach to the tractor.

I just got off the phone with the implement/dealership and the service member I spoke to explained that it is typical to have the oil darken quickly after changing it. Well... Another person who in the 'it darkens quickly camp'!

Ed

 

[torch]

Since I was about due for an oil change anyway, I dumped the oil, emptied the filter and refitted it, refilled with fresh oil + a bottle of diesel engine flush. Idled for 10 minutes. Dumped the oil again (it was black) and refilled with new filter. The oil remained clear. I now have almost 7 hours on the second fill and it is *just* beginning to darken.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[lugbolt]

take the pan off and look in it

it is irregularly shaped, such that it has a lot of places for oil (and soot residue) to puddle, even with the drain plugS (there's two) removed

the soot residue is what makes it turn black, you can't get it all out unless you remove the oil pan and clean it. when u start the engine after an oil change that soot residue gets throwed around in the crankcase and mixes in with the new oil, turns it dark and sometimes black within minutes

additionally newer formulations of kubota's oil is darker brownish not clear. Used to be more clear, not no more. All their engine oil is sorta ugly looking now. Hydraulic oil is still the same as it's always been/aka can't see it on a dip stick.

lastly, look at your drain bolts. You outta see wrench marks on them because kubota tightens them up pretty good and it takes a good bit of torque to loosen them. If you see wrench marks on one but not the other, they changed one side of the pan and not the other. I have seen it happen and it's easy to do when you're a dealer tech and the bosses are all over your backside about getting 10 million things done in 8 hours' time.