Methonol and water vs rim guard

[fried1765]

He was using barrels as a sort of table or saw horse setup cutting 1/2x6 bar stock. The flame got close to the blue poly barrel and melted through. The barrel was not clearly labeled so he was not aware of the danger he had placed himself in. I am pretty sure he not do it with intent.

A horrible story !!!

 

[ruger1980]

Ballast Safety Warning for Ag Tires - Firestone

Firestone recommends certain solutions for ballasting & freeze protection. See Firestone Tire Data Book for mixture recommendations, weights & fill procedures.

commercial.firestone.com

 

[fried1765]

Ballast Safety Warning for Ag Tires - Firestone

Firestone recommends certain solutions for ballasting & freeze protection. See Firestone Tire Data Book for mixture recommendations, weights & fill procedures.

commercial.firestone.com

So........Just what does Firestone "recommend" for windshield washer fluid in cold climates?

 

[BAP]

Ballast Safety Warning for Ag Tires - Firestone

Firestone recommends certain solutions for ballasting & freeze protection. See Firestone Tire Data Book for mixture recommendations, weights & fill procedures.

commercial.firestone.com

Of course that’s a 25 year old document that was published before most of the newer ballast products were developed.

 

[GeoHorn]

So........Just what does Firestone "recommend" for windshield washer fluid in cold climates?

Don’t know about Firestone…and it ain’t suitable for ballast…. but for my own vehicles …. the DW gives me her empty laundry-detergent bottles…. which have just enough residuals in them so that I fill them with water and use them for windshield washer fluid. Gets the bugs and dirt off fine. If you want to make it freeze-protected, add denatured alcohol (paint dept at Home Despot.)

 

[fried1765]

Don’t know about Firestone…and it ain’t suitable for ballast…. but for my own vehicles …. the DW gives me her empty laundry-detergent bottles…. which have just enough residuals in them so that I fill them with water and use them for windshield washer fluid. Gets the bugs and dirt off fine. If you want to make it freeze-protected, add denatured alcohol (paint dept at Home Despot.)

Sounds like a wonderful solution (pun intended).
Denatured alcohol (with a flash point of 55 degrees), is both highly flammable, and a serious respiratory irritant.
What could possibly go wrong?

 

[GeoHorn]

Sounds like a wonderful solution (pun intended).
Denatured alcohol (with a flash point of 55 degrees), is both highly flammable, and a serious respiratory irritant.
What could possibly go wrong?

Ok… then substitute vodka…just don’t drink it after mixing. (powerful laxative tho’..).

 

[jyoutz]

Sounds like a wonderful solution (pun intended).
Denatured alcohol (with a flash point of 55 degrees), is both highly flammable, and a serious respiratory irritant.
What could possibly go wrong?

Why not use isopropyl alcohol?

 

[fried1765]

Why not use isopropyl alcohol?

Why?
Because previous poster was suggesting the use of denatured alcohol.

 

[fried1765]

Ok… then substitute vodka…just don’t drink it after mixing. (powerful laxative tho’..).

Vodka might be OK, but I would prefer rum, ......with dark rum being better.
But then........who would want to drink watered down rum anyway?

 

[lugbolt]

Millions of automobiles are on the road every day, with that methanol (windshield washer fluid) hazard under the hood!
Has the EPA warned us about this?

they also have 10-30 gallons of gas underneath the driver and/or passenger(s); and how many times have people been warned about that? methanol has a different set of dangers which I've outlined. Biggest one is lack of flame during combustion; but again that's 99.96% meth. Some windshield washer fluids have higher percentage of methanol, others have 0% and the ones with 0% suck. Used to be that they all had methanol but not anymore; and part of that is because methanol is no longer produced from wood and corn, it is now mostly produced during the reformation of Natural Gas (aka methane) which has been for years cheap and plentiful.

also most cars don't intentionally get driven into a pile of burning piles of brush. Different application between tractor and car.

I can't say I've tried to intentionally run windshield washer fluid in an engine (yet)--but I have used it, and quite successfully, as an anti-detonation agent in max-effort forced-induction engines. It worked and worked good, mostly the same as aircraft used it "back in the day". It is definitely flammable.

If perfect combustion occurs the only byproducts of methanol are CO2 and H2O. Cleaner than gasoline and diesel. It has a lot of downsides though, for a motor fuel. Iv'e run the stuff in a LOT of things. Lawn mowers to go-karts to the current race car. At one point I had a KLR250 that I daily rode to work and since gas was like $5.00/gal, and Meth was $0.99/gal at the time, I converted it to methanol and ran it for over a year. Power increased too. Had no trouble out of it at all once the fuel mixture was as close to right as I could get it, given that it was a gas carb converted (never perfect). If I had a way to go to EFI and adjust spark, it would have been a lot better. Over the entire summer months, it cost me a hair less than $19 as I recall to go back and forth to work. The push mower was an accident. It would not run properly and my fiddling with it couldn't figure out why (stupid tecumseh 3hp--I hate them). Ran out of fuel and I grabbed the can, filled it up and a couple pulls later it was running absolutely perfect. Wrote it off as "bad gas" and mowed the neighbor's yard as I usually did during the summer as a kid. It ran out 3/4 the way through the yard. I found it odd becuase it would normally do the entire front and back yard, then our front and back yard, on a tank of gas. Refilled it with gas, ran like poo again. While trying to get it to run right I tipped over the other gas can and noticed that it wasn't gas...it was go-kart fuel. Drained the gas out of the mower, refilled with methanol, ran perfect--and it ran that way for at least 4 mowing seasons until we moved and I left that turd lawn mower sitting at the old house for someone else to cuss at.

 

[lugbolt]

One of my coworkers was killed when he accidently cut into a partially full drum of windshield washer fluid with a cutting torch.
So it is flammable and very dangerous. Firestone explicitly calls out not to use alcohol based ballast in their tires for this reason.

ain't done it with WW fluid but I have rode a barrel rocket. Same principle but we used an empty barrel of methanol, flipped on its side with the bung plug out. Straddle the barrel like a bull and light the bung hole. Was a local racer that got killed doing it when the barrel exploded, or mostly just swelled up and broke open and cut his legs and bled out. We used to hang out together until he got tied up in the wrong crowd.

 

[Biker1mike]

It is not the methanol that is the problem. It is the methanol vapor in air the tends to explode. Too little or too much and you are fine. 6 - 36 percent and you are in for a surprise.

 

[fried1765]

It is not the methanol that is the problem. It is the methanol vapor in air the tends to explode. Too little or too much and you are fine. 6 - 36 percent and you are in for a surprise.

Yup!
The methanol concentration in WW fluid is very low, and added at different low level concentrations to provide different levels (temperatures) of freeze protection.
All WW fluid is not the same!

 

[GeoHorn]

As a tech…. nitrogen….. For the twenty-fours dollars the dealership charged for 4 tires(lifetime fill even if you get new tires) it is worth it in my opinion. ….

I’d get more satisfaction simply watching $24 going-around in a circle as it is Flushed Down a Toilet….

As a ”tech”, …you get Paid to do this to people… I’d be ashamed to be complicit and charge them for such a scam.

 

[GeoHorn]

I have been using "wet" air in my tires for 65 years.
Seems to be working OK.

Free “ballast”…Right..??

I use my shop air compressor to fill tires…and to power my diesel fuel storage tank….and have Never found water in either tires or tractor fuel. (I have a Campbell-Hausfeld dryer on the outlet of my compressor…has worked fine for the last 20+ years….cost all of about $24.)

 

[cthomas]

I’d get more satisfaction simply watching $24 going-around in a circle as it is Flushed Down a Toilet….

As a ”tech”, …you get Paid to do this to people… I’d be ashamed to be complicit and charge them for such a scam.

So, as a tech what I am supposed to do? Refuse to do the work that is requested and get FIRED?

 

[torch]

As how the nitrogen is filled the machine I used would fill then deflate the tire 3 times. For the twenty-fours dollars the dealership charged for 4 tires(lifetime fill even if you get new tires) it is worth it in my opinion.

Here's my problem with the nitrogen theory: Air is roughly 80% nitrogen to start with. Now let us accept for the moment that the nitrogen molecules are less likely to leak than the oxygen CO2, etc. molecules. If this is true and my tire leaks then it should mostly leave the nitrogen in place and eventually I have a tire 80% full of mostly nitrogen. I top off the tire with air and now I have a tire with 96% nitrogen. Once that 4% leaks out and I top off again I'm at 99.5% nitrogen. It seems to me I should eventually end up at the same place, without spending the $24.

 

[GeoHorn]

So, as a tech what I am supposed to do? Refuse to do the work that is requested and get FIRED?

No sir…that is not what I am saying.

No. 1: It ($24) is NOT “worth it” … if that’s truly how you feel…(You wrote “It is worth it in my opinion”)

No. 2: If you wish to express your opinion…I’d hope that after considering the rip-off that nitrogen-medicine-show is…that you’d ONE: Tell the consumer…and TWO: Tell your supervisor and employer how much more honest it would be to Educate the Customer and thereby Gain the Cusomer’s Respect and Confidence that he will always be treated honestly and forthrightly, and thereby get his future business. If the customer decides (after being informed) to have the N2 installed anyway…then do it courteously only after they’ve been properly informed.

THAT is what I would do if I were in your place.

But…. you just keep doing whatever your conscience allows…. however for damn-sure I wouldn’t be posting that taking a customers money under such a scam is ”worth it” on the subject.

I’m not trying to attack you. I’m hoping to inspire you to do better.

Kind regards,
geohorn

 

[cthomas]

I'm saying its is worth it as 1. The nitrogen is dry, therefore no corrosion to start within the rim(at the seal) THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME AS I HAVE WORKED ON A PASQUALI TRACTOR THAT NEEDED ALL 4 RIMS DUE TO CORROSION THAT HAD TO CUSTOM MADE. Also have refused to install tires on rims as the bead area was just rusted/corroded away(YES I have had a bead fail when mounting tires). I am in the rust-belt and shit rusts here, anything, that I can do to prevent rust that costs $24 I am going to do it. 3. As a tech do you really think I talk to customers?(I make the dealership money by working on cars not talking with customers). 4.This is a website for Kubota owners and I bet you that some on here do not check tire pressures on anything.