Got a great deal on a hydraulic post driver. Any way to to get it to work on my l355ss without Breaking the bank?
Ls355 remote hydraulics
- Thread starter Grace haven
- Start date
Probably but to start how about a lot more info on the pounder.
Do you have a manual?
Make and model?
What tractor was it operating on before it came up for sale?
Pictures would be a big help.
Dave
Shaver HD 8
Minimum hydraulic requirements 3 gpm
Not sure what tractor ot was on before
Was able to find the post driver manual which is a great help.
Have you seen the unit you would like to buy? Does it have one hydraulic valve and lever?
How many hoses from the driver are there that need to be connected to your tractor? 2 or 3.
Now questions about your tractor. ( Sorry about all the questions but it is the only way to figure out what equipment is on these reliable but older machines.)
Does it have a loader?
If it has a loader how many hoses are attached to the loader valve. 6 or 7.
Does it have power steering? Does the power steering have its own pump and reservoir or is it part of the tractor's hydraulic system
Do you have an Operators' Manual for your tractor.
Are there any hydraulic connections on the rear of your tractor which might have been used to power a dump trailer or even a wood splitter.
The key tractor component to allow successful connection of the post driver is a HYDRAULIC BLOCK OUTLET TYPE.
Be patient, In the end I expect we will be successful but figuring out the fine details will take some time.
If the driver is a sale you want to not miss out on let me know.
p.s. I found an Operators' manual and have attached the hydraulic additions page.
.
Can you take a picture of your tractor in the area of the Flanged Outlet
Dave
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Already bought the post driver shaver HD8
It has the valve body with lever
2 hose one small and one large as the return fluid needs to exit without resistance
My tractor has no rear remotes
Does have a few
Has power steering
The loader is fed from a block to the left under the seat.
My thought was to have a quick attach from the loader function where as the loader could be unhook and the post driver using that hydraulic circuit..... or possibly a T of the fel circuit too a quick connect
My question in post #4, now knowing you have a loader, becomes much more important:
If it has a loader how many hoses are attached to the loader valve. 6 or 7.
Your tractor has a Open Center hydraulic system so Tee'ing into any line except a Tank line will not work.
Dave
rbargeron
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L5450, L48, L3250, L345 never enough attachments
Hope I'm not confusing things, but I've had a few L345/L355s so here goes:
On L345 and L355 models there is 4-bolt cap under the seat, left side, that connects two high-pressure passages in a valve body. To install a loader valve, the cap is replaced by an aluminum port block (like in the pic below - part no. is 70050-00279).
The block's front port sends pressurized oil to power an aux valve (like a loader) and the rear port gets high-pressure oil back from from the aux valve's power-beyond port, for powering the 3-point hitch.
I'm jumping ahead on Dave's post a bit - sounds like your loader valve is connected to a block like this already. Kubota loader valves usually have 7 hoses, one of them being the "power-beyond" hose going back to the block.
A direct way to get power to your post driver would be to feed it with a new control valve connected in series with one of the high-pressure hoses that now goes from the block to the loader valve. The loader's power-beyond hose would instead become the supply hose for the new driver feed valve, and the new valve's PB hose would go back to the port block. Clear as mud, eh? Basically the two control valves would be in series with the second one's "power beyond" going back to the 3-point hitch. Meanwhile the driver's big exhaust tube can be simply stuck into the oil-fill plug.
Don't know the GPM of the hydraulics on the L355 - but it only effects the speed of lifting the ram up after a hammer stroke (good video here).
On L345 and L355 models there is 4-bolt cap under the seat, left side, that connects two high-pressure passages in a valve body. To install a loader valve, the cap is replaced by an aluminum port block (like in the pic below - part no. is 70050-00279).
The block's front port sends pressurized oil to power an aux valve (like a loader) and the rear port gets high-pressure oil back from from the aux valve's power-beyond port, for powering the 3-point hitch.
I'm jumping ahead on Dave's post a bit - sounds like your loader valve is connected to a block like this already. Kubota loader valves usually have 7 hoses, one of them being the "power-beyond" hose going back to the block.
A direct way to get power to your post driver would be to feed it with a new control valve connected in series with one of the high-pressure hoses that now goes from the block to the loader valve. The loader's power-beyond hose would instead become the supply hose for the new driver feed valve, and the new valve's PB hose would go back to the port block. Clear as mud, eh? Basically the two control valves would be in series with the second one's "power beyond" going back to the 3-point hitch. Meanwhile the driver's big exhaust tube can be simply stuck into the oil-fill plug.
Don't know the GPM of the hydraulics on the L355 - but it only effects the speed of lifting the ram up after a hammer stroke (good video here).
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Dick
I have been reading Shaver manuals and watching videos for hours.
Since the driver is already purchased, has its own valve without PB and further the cylinder is single acting, I do not see things being as simple as putting the driver in series with the PB circuit.
I suspect the large quick drain to the case hose has flow all the time except when the cylinder is being extended but the manual does not say nor the videos I have looked at. I am mindful of the Open Center design and the relief valve being in the flanged outlet assembly,
If the PB circuit is interrupted without continuation, the 3 pt is not going to work and this is a necessary part of the post pounding operation.
The driver this owner has is the simple one with one lever not the tilt and lean models powering double acting position cylinders in addition to the single acting hammer.
With the above additional facts, if you have further ideas I would welcome them
Dave
TheOldHokie
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L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Those drivers have an open center valve and simply use the hydraulic cylinder to cock the spring. Pulling the lever fires the spring, exhausting the oil and releasing the hammer. Plumb it like any other open center valve. Are you sure the loader valve does not have a power beyond port for the 3pt? That would be the preferred plumbing but you could use the tank return if push came to shove.
As to flow I have added remotes for that exact model Shaver to ancient 3 GPM Ford tractors and it worked fine.
Dan
Dan
As I understand the L series flange type outlet, when there is a loader, the loader valve must have a PB circuit which is plumbed back into the flange type outlet to supply the 3 pt hitch. In brief, the loader valve must have a power beyond!
Since the Shaver driver does not have power beyond in its valve, I do not see how it can be inserted into the PB circuit between the loader valve and the 3 pt hitch.
See literature below on this matter.
Suggesting to use the loader tank return as the supply for the driver valve will subject the loader valve Tank port to pressures far beyond their design. Yes people have done this.
I would not want the responsibility for someone else's safety with this plan.
If you have other options I welcome them.
Dave
If as you said the loader is powered by the hydraulic block near the seat, and, if you only have 6 hoses connected to the loader valve something is amiss.
The Owner's manual page explicitly states to use the flange type outlet the valve connected to the outlet must have power beyond.
Try and clean up the loader valve so you can see any markings cast into the valve body.
Specifically, I want you to look for a T.
If you find a T trace the hose to see exactly where it goes. If it connects to the flange type outlet, the loader is plumbed incorrectly and is dangerous because of the risk of the loader valve body splitting and spraying oil at pressures high enough to pierce the skin.
The T port will be rated in the range of 400 to 450 psi. When you lift a weight on the 3 pt hitch this pressure can rise to the system max of perhaps 2,000 psi.
Dave
TheOldHokie
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L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Exactly - something in this description does not add up. If the loader valve does not have a separate tank return line it is not equipped with a power beyond circuit. and the tank return is being used to power the 3pt.
But in any case simply put the post driver valve in series with the pressure return from the loader valve. Yes you will be using the tank return on the post hole driver as a power beyond supply to the 3pt but nothing is going to explode. Structurally the outlet section in those monoblock valves can safely handle the pressure- that is exactly what happens if a closed center plug is installed. Elevated pressures on the tank return is more an issue with internal seals, load checks, and pressure relief valves none of which are going to be a problem here. If it really worries you put a diverter valve in the circuit and only power the post driver when you and it are on the ground and it is in use. Switch the flow back when you need to raise and transport it.
Dan
rbargeron
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L5450, L48, L3250, L345 never enough attachments
Grace - we're all trying for a simple setup that will run the driver without affecting the 3-pt or loader. There isn't just one that will work. Listen to all ideas until one seems best to you..
I do not want to be disagreeing with anyone. As a professional engineer, my advice is limited when safety is involved.
Since Dan feels his solution will work, I will step back.
Dave
Since Dan feels his solution will work, I will step back.
Dave
TheOldHokie
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L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
I understand your perspective perfectly and I am 100% in agreement with you on how it should be plumbed. I have designed, built, and sold dozens of remote add-ons for tractors over the last 30 years and never had a problem when the owner insisted (over my objections) on using a tank return as a power beyond. Of course that is the sort of anecdotal data that engineers like you and I distrust. That said here are three possible ways to do it correctly - I am sure someone can think of others:
- Put quick connects on the loader bucket work ports and use that to supply the post pounder valve. You will need to install or rig a detent on the loader spool to hold it in the shifted position and manually connect and disconnect the bucket ports when using the post pounder. It will also disable the bucket control while the post pounder is connected., its ugly, and I disklike it immensely but it is cheap and plumbed according to The Hydraulic Book of Hoyle ".
A more expensive way to accomplish this is with a solenoid activated third function valve which is also according to Hoyle and doesn't cost you use of the bucket function while the pounder is connected. - Install a 3 way manual diverter valve on the high pressure carry-over port on the loader valve. Use it to switch the power beyond flow between the 3pt and the post pounder. I like this a lot better and it is according to Hoyle as long as you never try to use the 3pt while the post pounder circuit is "hot".
- Put a 3 GPM priority flow divider on the output of the loader valve and use a diverter valve on the priority circuit to feed remotes for the post pounder. Add a dedicated tank return to the tank filler for the priority return circuit. Now you have full function full time control of all circuits. You will lose 3 GPM going to the 3pt while the post pounder is hot but you will never know it happened.
rbargeron
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L5450, L48, L3250, L345 never enough attachments
Found a couple related pics in the L355ss WSM. One shows its priority valve (that favors the hyd shuttle ) The other shows the "hydraulic block cover". Documentation of these early machines is sketchy. The aluminum block isn't mentioned.
TheOldHokie
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L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Interesting. I have a B7200 of that era and the WSM for it covers the operation of the hydraulics in great detail. Documentation for options tends to be skimpy even on the new machines. I just took delivery of an L3901 and it was hell getting info on the remote valve options - the one dealer mechanic I spoke with while I was considering my options clearly did not know how the valves on the standard L are plumbed or what components came with the kits. They couldn't even show me a picture of what I was buying. I was still poised to take the $$$ plunge for factory remotes but after doing the research and seeing what it was going to get me I decided to roll my own. The controls for the OEM valves are well integrated with the operator's station and very tempting but the outlet blocks are cheap, minimally functional add-ons and look like an afterthought. Swapping them out for the far better components used on the Grand L would have added another $1000 to the cost.
I have exactly the same dilemma you have right now with the remotes for the L3901 - a 3pt log splitter with a plain open center valve that I want to power off the tractor pump. It will be connected to one of the three sets of remotes I am installing on the rear of the tractor using (hopefully) this Prince sectional that I purchased for a tiny fraction of what the OEM valves cost. The Prince valve will be mounted in the same position as the OEM sectional valves and daisy chained into the factory power beyond circuit from the loader using two hoses just like OEM. The tank return will be directly connected to a custom aluminum manifold block mounted on the side of the transmission case just like OEM. The shorter section on the inlet side of teh valve is a 4 way 3 position spool with detent in both shifted positions specifically chosen to provide a constant flow supply and direct do not pass GO or collect $200 return to tank circuit for the log splitter (or any other implement that needs one). When the log splitter is not connected it works like any other 4 way cylinder control valve but must be manually returned to neutral. All plumbing 100% according to Hoyle.
Which brings me back to your situation. Assuming your loader valve is properly plumbed with a power beyond circuit a $150 delivered to your door single spool valve with power beyond and one position detent could be added to the loader circuit and used to power your post pounder and give you a general purpose rear remote for whatever else strikes your fancy. Mount the valve any place handy and the couplers right on the work ports if you don't want the added cost of that plumbing.
Dan
rbargeron
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L5450, L48, L3250, L345 never enough attachments
Hi Grace,
Thanks for our sidebar confirming which loader valve you have.
The Kubota L355ss tractor was usually sold with the model 1720 loader. It was supplied with a Cross BA 2-spool control valve, usually with 6 hoses. On the side of the valve is a large hex head plug that can be replaced with this $20 part to convert it to a power-beyond port.
This PB sleeve should work fine as a power source for a hose to the driver valve. A quick connector here won't do the job adequately - see Dan's post - next page
The Cross valve is very robust and using its return port to power the 3-pt hitch has worked for many years on many of these tractor models. Cross has good info on this valve link here.
Thanks for our sidebar confirming which loader valve you have.
The Kubota L355ss tractor was usually sold with the model 1720 loader. It was supplied with a Cross BA 2-spool control valve, usually with 6 hoses. On the side of the valve is a large hex head plug that can be replaced with this $20 part to convert it to a power-beyond port.
This PB sleeve should work fine as a power source for a hose to the driver valve. A quick connector here won't do the job adequately - see Dan's post - next page
The Cross valve is very robust and using its return port to power the 3-pt hitch has worked for many years on many of these tractor models. Cross has good info on this valve link here.
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