Lift arms on 2350DT stuttering with auger attachment

[Flintknapper]

My suggestion has nothing to do with imbalance. I also think you are barking up the wrong tree with the position control rod. If you are deadset on messing with it do as the Wolfman says. Adjust per the WSM else you will be creatimg a new problem.
Dan

^^^^^^

I'm thinking Dan may be correct. Hard to tell from the picture angle provided, but the adjustment on mine (same tractor) has never been changed and it doesn't appear to be markedly different than the OP's.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I was wondering about the lift geometry as well but it only happens with the PHD and from what I can see everything is free to move; there does not seem to be any binding in the PHD or its connections to the tractor and the PHD yoke is perpendicular to the lift arms.

"Curioser and curioser" as Alice said.

Ir works fine with other three point implements so its seemingly specific to the PHD geometry.

See what happens if you disconnect the top attachment point and use a loop of chain or rope to hold it up.

 

[Stuart_T]

Ir works fine with other three point implements so its seemingly specific to the PHD geometry.

See what happens if you disconnect the top attachment point and use a loop of chain or rope to hold it up.

Do you mean where the PHD tube attaches to the bracket on the tractor above the PTO? Will do.
(If this IS the problem, it's going to be very interesting indeed to come up with a workaround!)

The "geometry" thing is sounding more and more plausible, although I don't recall the problem with my old tractor, but I haven't used it for several years so it may have done so to a lesser extent.

@Flintknapper: That does look about the same as mine.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Do you mean where the PHD tube attaches to the bracket on the tractor above the PTO? Will do.
(If this IS the problem, it's going to be very interesting indeed to come up with a workaround!)

Thats exactly what I mean.

Does this shudder make the implement unusable or is it just a nusiance?

Dan

 

[McMXi]

Yeah, looks like a geometry issue to me too. I would move the pin to the middle hole in the bracket if you have enough range of motion to get the auger out of the ground. You don't need the auger to be 12" above the dirt in order to use it.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Yeah, looks like a geometry issue to me too. I would move the pin to the middle hole on the bracket if you have enough range of motion to get the auger out of the ground. You don't need the auger to be 12" above the dirt in order to use it.

View attachment 157267

I woulð have alreafy tried all three

 

[McMXi]

I woulð have alreafy tried all three

Me too!

But I got around this problem by purchasing a SSQA PHD that runs off the 3rd function. One big advantage in addition to geometry is that the auger can be rotated CW or CCW.

 

[Russell King]

I recalled this “three point shudder” problem and searched long enough that I found the thread.

This is the one where the control valve ended up being replaced. Video in post 40 shows the problem but looks different than this. BUT it is the same tractor model (or at least the title is close)

L2350DT Hydraulic Problem 3-PT Shakes

You can not "disconnect the feedback:" doing so will make the three point go all out of whack. He needs to follow the WSM and adjust the feedback linkage properly. By all means adjust away. Bit if that fails he can discinnect the feedback rod if he immobilizes the feedback lever. That should...

www.orangetractortalks.com

Please watch the video (I think there may be a few scattered in the thread) and tell us if it is the same or a different problem than your tractor. I think it is different but you can tell better than I can. I also think this problem happened with various implements which indicates it was a tractor problem, where yours seems to be only with one implement.

Do you always have the anti-sway links that tight? These are the turnb between the lower three point lift arms and the rear of the tractor. They just look really tight in the videos. You might try to loosen them some and see if anything changes.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Does that L have draft control? I had a similar problem with my neighbor's JD until I figured out I was using the draft control instead of the position lever. Set the DC fully down and use the PC, I think.

 

[Stuart_T]

Thats exactly what I mean.

Does this shudder make the implement unusable or is it just a nusiance?

Dan

Well,. it doesn't make it unusable, but it is worrying. (Damage?)

- I've already tried moving the yoke to the middle hole. No diff.

- Purchasing a new PHD ain't gonna happen, given that I haven't used mine for several years and have no demand for one now aside from a couple of holes for a neighbour's new gate.

As to suspending the rear attachment point to chain as an experiment, that's going to be difficult since I put a sheet metal canopy on it and can't put anything over the ROPS now. I'd also have to re move the auger so it doesn 't bottom out when the other end is raised. (Minor problem, though.)

@ Russell King: I'll check out that thread! I have the sway bars set to allow a little movement, maybe a couple of inches. I can loosen them and see if it makes a diff., but I doubt it.

@PoTreeBoy: No draft on this one.

 

[McMXi]

Well,. it doesn't make it unusable, but it is worrying. (Damage?)

- I've already tried moving the yoke to the middle hole. No diff.

- Purchasing a new PHD ain't gonna happen, given that I haven't used mine for several years and have no demand for one now aside from a couple of holes for a neighbour's new gate.

As to suspending the rear attachment point to chain as an experiment, that's going to be difficult since I put a sheet metal canopy on it and can't put anything over the ROPS now. I'd also have to re move the auger so it doesn 't bottom out when the other end is raised. (Minor problem, though.)

@ Russell King: I'll check out that thread! I have the sway bars set to allow a little movement, maybe a couple of inches. I can loosen them and see if it makes a diff., but I doubt it.

@PoTreeBoy: No draft on this one.

Did you try the hole nearest to the rear of the tractor as well?

Your lower lift arms appear to move up and down as smooth as can be, and if you removed the yoke, or at least unpinned it, the PHD would move up and down in a smooth manner too, since it's rotating freely around the pin on the rear of the tractor. So it's only when you pin the yoke to the upper arm (or whatever you call it) that the problem occurs. So it's back to a geometry issue and binding.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Well,. it doesn't make it unusable, but it is worrying. (Damage?)

- I've already tried moving the yoke to the middle hole. No diff.

- Purchasing a new PHD ain't gonna happen, given that I haven't used mine for several years and have no demand for one now aside from a couple of holes for a neighbour's new gate.

As to suspending the rear attachment point to chain as an experiment, that's going to be difficult since I put a sheet metal canopy on it and can't put anything over the ROPS now. I'd also have to re move the auger so it doesn 't bottom out when the other end is raised. (Minor problem, though.)

@ Russell King: I'll check out that thread! I have the sway bars set to allow a little movement, maybe a couple of inches. I can loosen them and see if it makes a diff., but I doubt it.

@PoTreeBoy: No draft on this one.

Boy you like to make things harder than needed.

Unpin the boom om the PHD. run a 18" long piece of rope through the pinhole and tie into a loop. Pin the loop to the top link bracket on the tractor.

Dan

 

[Stuart_T]

Boy you like to make things harder than needed.

Unpin the boom om the PHD. run a 18" long piece of rope through the pinhole and tie into a loop. Pin the loop to the top link bracket on the tractor.

Dan

Removing the boom link at the bracket from the equation and letting the end of the boom "float" (constrained only by the rope) should tell us something about whether the geometry. is an issue. I'll have to remove the auger as well because it will ground when the tractor end of the boom is raised but that's not a big deal.

Of course, if the problem doesn't reappear with the rear end detached - ie really a geometry problem- it'll make for some very tricky McGyvering to rig up a solution for when I actually need to use it. But I'll worry about that when I get there.

In the meantime I'll check out the "three-point shudder" links. Can't get back at the tractor itself for a couple of days though.

"The truth is out there"... somewhere.

 

[Stuart_T]

Had another "rassle" with this today, but no joy I looked through the "3-point shudder" links and they gave me some ideas of things to check.

First thing today was to see if I could physically lift the PHD when attached normally (ie bracket and lift arms.) Not being the 220-lb. linebacker I never was nor related to Arnie S, this was a challenge but I figured if I removed the auger and if necessary the gearbox I might be able to do it. Got the auger removed but not the gearbox as I didn't have the PHD suspended again after initially checking that the problem was still extant; couldn't hold it properly to knock the pin out. Nonetheless I was just able to ascertain that the PHD would lift without obvious binding.

Then tried detatching the boom where it is pinned to the bracket and holding it loosely with some NMD14 wire as I couldn't find any suitable rope. Unfortunately the jerking when lifting recurred, so I am fairly sure that geometry isn't the issue.

I did check the movement of the FB rod as well as the connection opposite the Position control lever to be sure the roll pin was intact etc. and everything seemed normal.

I then rermoved the PHD entirely and checked the lift vs the movement of the Position Control Lever. When I just push the PCL back in one movement, the lift arms rise smoothly., as in the video I linked earlier. But when I push it back incrementally, ie to see where the lift action begins, it does seem to lift in stages, although smoothly. (???)

I now have a sore back, so no morre rasslin' with the PHD for now. Tomorrow I'm going to put the brush cutterr on and attack my field. But I suspect that I will have to get the local dealer to look at this.

Addendum: Also tried running engine at higher rpm- around 1800.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Had another "rassle" with this today, but no joy I looked through the "3-point shudder" links and they gave me some ideas of things to check.

First thing today was to see if I could physically lift the PHD when attached normally (ie bracket and lift arms.) Not being the 220-lb. linebacker I never was nor related to Arnie S, this was a challenge but I figured if I removed the auger and if necessary the gearbox I might be able to do it. Got the auger removed but not the gearbox as I didn't have the PHD suspended again after initially checking that the problem was still extant; couldn't hold it properly to knock the pin out. Nonetheless I was just able to ascertain that the PHD would lift without obvious binding.

Then tried detatching the boom where it is pinned to the bracket and holding it loosely with some NMD14 wire as I couldn't find any suitable rope. Unfortunately the jerking when lifting recurred, so I am fairly sure that geometry isn't the issue.

I did check the movement of the FB rod as well as the connection opposite the Position control lever to be sure the roll pin was intact etc. and everything seemed normal.

I then rermoved the PHD entirely and checked the lift vs the movement of the Position Control Lever. When I just push the PCL back in one movement, the lift arms rise smoothly., as in the video I linked earlier. But when I push it back incrementally, ie to see where the lift action begins, it does seem to lift in stages, although smoothly. (???)

I now have a sore back, so no morre rasslin' with the PHD for now. Tomorrow I'm going to put the brush cutterr on and attack my field. But I suspect that I will have to get the local dealer to look at this.

Addendum: Also tried running engine at higher rpm- around 1800.

You need to change the three point valve, simple as that.

 

[Stuart_T]

You need to change the three point valve, simple as that.

= "Control Valve" ? This I can probably do if I can get access.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Yep 7 is the control valve
Find one first.
Changing it is a walk in the park.
Send a message to @007kubotaguy and see if he has one.

or @ASTER

kubota l4200 V2203 REAR CONTROL VALVE 31351-39702 31351-39600 | eBay

kubota l4200 V2203 REAR CONTROL VALVE 31351-39702 good cond COND FREE SHIPPING CHECK OUT my kubota l4200

www.ebay.com

 

[TheOldHokie]

I then rermoved the PHD entirely and checked the lift vs the movement of the Position Control Lever. When I just push the PCL back in one movement, the lift arms rise smoothly., as in the video I linked earlier. But when I push it back incrementally, ie to see where the lift action begins, it does seem to lift in stages, although smoothly. (???)

That is how position control works. When you move the PCL up to an intermediate position the lift arms raise to match that position and stop. Move it a little higher or lower the arms move accordingly and stop at the newly selected height.

If the hydraulic cylinder starts to leak down the feedback rod/linkage automagically commands lift from the control valve without moving the PCL . That moves he lift arms back to the selected height and then the valve automagically returns to neutral.

Your valve appears to be behaving normally in that regard.

According to you it works smoothly with everything EXCEPT the PHD and the PHD is not binding. That makes zero sense.

Dan

 

[Russell King]

Since you are installing the brush cutter on you can experiment with it and see if you can replicate the same problem. Put the top link in the same hole as you had the PHD and lift it as high as you can and see how smoothly it moves. Then you can lower it and add some weight to the rear end of the mower and lift it again to see if that makes any difference in performance.

One other thought is the top link space is not standard on Kubota and most commercial top links have to be ground to fit between the two tabs where you then install the pin. Is there any interference between the tractor and the PHD boom when you in it. I would think your test with wire would have eliminated that interference though.

Maybe try the PHD on another tractor to see if it works okay?

 

[Stuart_T]

Thanks for the updates, folks. I'll be running the brush cutter (a Modern Mfg. 48") today so will reaffirm that the 3-pt works as expected with it. It is more compact and needs less lift so any shudder may be less noticeable. I had noticed any problems with it or the snow blade before, though.

@Russell King: When I first went to install the PHD on the Kubota it did seem the fit in the bracket was a bit tight and in fact I did grind down the flanged tube (Cat 2-Cat 1 bushing) on the yoke of the PHD a tad but it's OK- there is no binding there. Part of the problem I think is just getting the tractor aligned with the PHD as it's suspended on a frame in the field and it takes a bit of rasslin'. The adjustable top link I use on the other attachments is also about 44mm and the Kubota bracket is a hair larger than that.

As to trying it on an other tractor, as I initially mentioned, it had worked OK on my old Yanmar and a neighbour's JD and the neighbour confirmed a few days ago that she hadn't noticed asnything amiss.

As Dan said, "It makes no sense". I think I'm going to have to talk to the local dealer and maybe have them look into it. Won't be cheap but I'll need it in a couple of weeks to dig holes for my neighbour's new gate.

@N. Idaho Wolfman- thanks for the parts link. Unfortunately I am resident in "your erstwhile best trading partner" (BC, Canada near the border). I used to get parts for my grey-market Yanmar from Hoye's in Iowa Park N. Texas (now All States AG) and have them sent to my gf's place in Bellingham WA, which was really convenient. But with the silly trade war - and our 25% import tax added to anything coming from the US - (on top of the 40% exchange rate) it's not as practical to bring stuff across the border unless it's a REALLY good deal As somene quipped recently, "This too shall pass. I may pass like a kidney stone, but it will pass."