LB400 identifying seal kit without loader serial number

[VikkiP]

New member here...I had a cylinder seal blow out at the end of the day yesterday up at our forest property, and removed both bucket cylinders for transport home to rebuild them. The tractor is relatively new to me (a year and a half) and geographically remote (about 2 1/2 hours). Of course I learn that there is a design change for the cylinders that impacts which kit to order...is there any way to tell from the stamped numbers on the cylinders? Update: I did find a photo showing the serial number, so as long as those are the original cylinders, I should be safe with the 75545-64600 kit.

I did break the caps loose before removing the cylinders from the loader, but is there any other "gotcha" in this rebuild? As I'm starting a new job this week and likely won't have time to tackle this, what would one expect to pay at a local hydraulic shop for a seal change, and would a local shop have ready access to the seals needed or would they need to order a specific kit? Our local Kubota dealer does not have the kit in stock so I need to order online. Who's your favorite online source?

 

[Roadworthy]

I'd check in with a local hydraulic repair shop. They may be able to rebuild the cylinders for only slightly more than Kubota wants for the official kits.

 

[Flintknapper]

What is the serial number on your FEL?

There was indeed a 'break' where the seal kits could be different.

My FEL (serial # 13332) used seal kits (lift cylinders and curl cylinders) 75545-63400 & 75545-64400.

 

[VikkiP]

What is the serial number on your FEL?

There was indeed a 'break' where the seal kits could be different.

My FEL (serial # 13332) used seal kits (lift cylinders and curl cylinders) 75545-63400 & 75545-64400.

When I posted, I didn't have the serial number for the FEL. The break for the LB400 is 16444/16445, mine is 203xx. That I found a photo was accidental foresight - I bought it and relied on the seller (friend of a friend) to deliver in the future, so I documented everything so I could.

 

[jyoutz]

Most hydraulic shop’s don’t order manufacturer OEM seals. They just measure the seals and likely have some of the required sizes in stock.

 

[VikkiP]

I'd check in with a local hydraulic repair shop. They may be able to rebuild the cylinders for only slightly more than Kubota wants for the official kits.

I do like the idea of having someone do it, since I won't know if I will run into complications until I start. But being today is a Sunday, I can't even call around to see if a shop within 25 miles can get them turned around much less how much it'll cost. I may regret it but I ordered two kits. Should I reseal both cylinders, or is it acceptable to reseal only one if the other isn't leaking yet? I can shelf the other kit for that day and then service it on-site when need be.

I lost quite a bit of fluid (cups). Is there a specific bleeding process when the rebuilt cylinders are reinstalled?

 

[PoTreeBoy]

I do like the idea of having someone do it, since I won't know if I will run into complications until I start. But being today is a Sunday, I can't even call around to see if a shop within 25 miles can get them turned around much less how much it'll cost. I may regret it but I ordered two kits. Should I reseal both cylinders, or is it acceptable to reseal only one if the other isn't leaking yet? I can shelf the other kit for that day and then service it on-site when need be.

I lost quite a bit of fluid (cups). Is there a specific bleeding process when the rebuilt cylinders are reinstalled?

Especially since you've ordered both kits, I'd install them now. Just cycle it a few times after it's reassembled to bleed the air.

 

[VikkiP]

Especially since you've ordered both kits, I'd install them now. Just cycle it a few times after it's reassembled to bleed the air.

Thank you. Other than lawn tractors, my only tractor experience was growing up mowing 10 acres with a '47(?) Allis Chalmers B. No hydraulics, so raising and lowering that mower deck was a challenge for little kid me.

 

[Flintknapper]

I do like the idea of having someone do it, since I won't know if I will run into complications until I start. But being today is a Sunday, I can't even call around to see if a shop within 25 miles can get them turned around much less how much it'll cost. I may regret it but I ordered two kits. Should I reseal both cylinders, or is it acceptable to reseal only one if the other isn't leaking yet? I can shelf the other kit for that day and then service it on-site when need be.

I lost quite a bit of fluid (cups). Is there a specific bleeding process when the rebuilt cylinders are reinstalled?

Do BOTH at the same time. If one is leaking the other can't be far behind it. The seals dry out and degrade....you can't really see that until they are disassembled.

The procedure is not difficult....save for one seal (the main seal that installs internally). All of the external seals are a breeze.

Your wiper seals will likely be dry and cracked, the others just worn.

 

[VikkiP]

Do BOTH at the same time. If one is leaking the other can't be far behind it. The seals dry out and degrade....you can't really see that until they are disassembled.

The procedure is not difficult....save for one seal (the main seal that installs internally). All of the external seals are a breeze.

Your wiper seals will likely be dry and cracked, the others just worn.

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Thank you for the detailed photos! I don't have an impact wrench at present (old one wore out for the last time and I haven't found a replacement), so is there any harm in using something to hold the rod using the pin end to secure it while removing the nut? I don't have the tractor and its arms here to secure it to.

I'm about to head to the garage and set up a task area. I'm guessing the fluid will be the worst of the mess.

 

[Flintknapper]

Thank you for the detailed photos! I don't have an impact wrench at present (old one wore out for the last time and I haven't found a replacement), so is there any harm in using something to hold the rod using the pin end to secure it while removing the nut? I don't have the tractor and its arms here to secure it to.

I'm about to head to the garage and set up a task area. I'm guessing the fluid will be the worst of the mess.

It is fine to put the rod in a vice/other to hold it (by the pin bore). Obviously want to avoid scratching or marring the rod surface anywhere along its extended length, but other than that.. any method you have to hold it will suffice.

Any fluid in the cylinder now will discharge if you cycle the rod by hand....thus making for less of a mess on your bench-top/work area.

Removing the gland and piston from the cylinder is easy....since the seals have been compressed and are worn. Getting the new assembly back IN involves lubing the seals and a little effort to get it all started.

I used an impact to remove the nut holding the piston in place....simply because I had one on hand, but it can be done manually. I used a thread locker (blue loctite) on the nut upon reassembly.

As previously stated.....it isn't a hard job except for installing the main seal. There is a small tool you can purchase that 'folds' the Main Seal making it much easier to install. I also recommend warming the seal before installation....which makes it more pliable. The rest is a Cake Walk.

Just cycle the FEL a few times after you reinstall the cylinders to fill the cylinders with hydraulic fluid and remove any air.

 

[fried1765]

Especially since you've ordered both kits, I'd install them now. Just cycle it a few times after it's reassembled to bleed the air.

We all make choices, for different reasons.
I would have had the repair done by a local hydraulics shop.

 

[VikkiP]

It is fine to put the rod in a vice/other to hold it (by the pin bore). Obviously want to avoid scratching or marring the rod surface anywhere along its extended length, but other than that.. any method you have to hold it will suffice.

Any fluid in the cylinder now will discharge if you cycle the rod by hand....thus making for less of a mess on your bench-top/work area.

Removing the gland and piston from the cylinder is easy....since the seals have been compressed and are worn. Getting the new assembly back IN involves lubing the seals and a little effort to get it all started.

I used an impact to remove the nut holding the piston in place....simply because I had one on hand, but it can be done manually. I used a thread locker (blue loctite) on the nut upon reassembly.

As previously stated.....it isn't a hard job except for installing the main seal. There is a small tool you can purchase that 'folds' the Main Seal making it much easier to install. I also recommend warming the seal before installation....which makes it more pliable. The rest is a Cake Walk.

Just cycle the FEL a few times after you reinstall the cylinders to fill the cylinders with hydraulic fluid and remove any air.

View attachment 106909 View attachment 106910

No way on earth will those cylinders cycle by hand. I've broken two solid maple dowels so far trying to pull the second rod. I am amazed that these even lifted.

If they weren't so long, I'd use the log splitter in reverse to pull it.

 

[VikkiP]

Do BOTH at the same time. If one is leaking the other can't be far behind it. The seals dry out and degrade....you can't really see that until they are disassembled.

The procedure is not difficult....save for one seal (the main seal that installs internally). All of the external seals are a breeze.

Your wiper seals will likely be dry and cracked, the others just worn.

View attachment 106886 View attachment 106887 View attachment 106888 View attachment 106889 View attachment 106890

Your FEL must be the earlier version, as my piston has two split green and a yellow ring.

I did eventually get the second rod removed. Many, many taps with a hammer against a hardwood dowel inserted into the rod eye, with the other end pinned by a dowel through the workbench. I can't feel a bend in the rod but once I get the nuts and pistons off, I'll do a roll check on my granite countertop.

 

[VikkiP]

Progress, finally! I was able to remove all the seals one by one, match the replacement, clean and install. The only one that seems weird is the stiff yellow seal on the middle of the piston - it was hard to remove the old one as it was 24 years old and stiff as plexiglass, and the new one was firm and when I worked it into place groove by groove, it seems stretched. I'm not sure how to get it to snug up in its slot so that I can fit it into the cylinder.

Do the rod locknuts have a torque spec? I have them back approximately the same thread exposure as they were before, which leaves the piston solidly bottomed out against the o ring on the shoulder, which is about as tight as I can get them holding the rod by hand and using a regular 1/2" drive ratchet to tighten.

After:

Before:

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Did you boil the seals to put them on or just stretch them?
And you need to hold the cylinder rod via the eye on the end to torque the nut.
Hand tightening will not be enough.

 

[VikkiP]

Did you boil the seals to put them on or just stretch them?
And you need to hold the cylinder rod via the eye on the end to torque the nut.
Hand tightening will not be enough.

Very hot water, but the cooler metal cooled them off pretty quick. I worked them around one groove /surface at a time so they wouldn't stretch much. Would it work if I pulled the green rings back off and redipped the pistons? I don't want to cause the new seals any harm. I almost missed those square rubber seals hiding beneath the yellow rings.

 

[Flintknapper]

And you need to hold the cylinder rod via the eye on the end to torque the nut.
Hand tightening will not be enough.

^^^^^

Yep. I don't know the exact torque figure but it is easily 60+ lb ft. Need to hold the rod in a vice or temporarily reinstall on FEL so the nut can be tightened properly.

 

[VikkiP]

So, I learned there is a tool called a correcting jig. I made a functional correcting jig from a piece of thin (disposable style) plastic cutting sheet and a hose clamp. I wrapped the piston in the plastic, snugged the hose clamp around that, and gave it a bath in simmering water. The seal snugged down into the groove nicely. If I can avoid damaging it during install into the cylinder tomorrow, I should be all set.

 

[VikkiP]

^^^^^

Yep. I don't know the exact torque figure but it is easily 60+ lb ft. Need to hold the rod in a vice or temporarily reinstall on FEL so the nut can be tightened properly.

I'll pull out my torque wrench and borrow my husband to hold the cylinder with a dowel through the eye while I torque it. The FEL is 2 1/2 hours away out in the woods so I can't use it as a restraint. I just wish I knew what the right torque setting was.