Sorry guys, but that setup is not safe, or legal for quite a few reasons. If your hauling commercially your bound to get a ticket from Mr. DOT officer.
L3800 Tie Down Points
- Thread starter oldenough
- Start date
Sorry guys, but that setup is not safe, or legal for quite a few reasons. If your hauling commercially your bound to get a ticket from Mr. DOT officer.
It helps everyone if you tell why it isn't safe. Not all states have the same laws and if there is a federal one that you know of, it's a mighty neighborly thing to clue us all in on it.
Good point, sorry.It helps everyone if you tell why it isn't safe. Not all states have the same laws and if there is a federal one that you know of, it's a mighty neighborly thing to clue us all in on it.
In general, you need 4 tie-downs, one at each corner to prevent side-to-side and lateral movement. All "attachments" must be lowered to the deck, and secured with at least one tie-down.
There is lots of information at the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) website, particularly:
Chapter 9: http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulation...securement-chapter-9-automobiles-light-trucks
And
Chapter 10: http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulation...ecurement-chapter-10-heavy-vehicles-equipment
Lots more reading here: https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/PPP/PPP-75.pdf
The L3800 even with the backhoe, FEL and trailer weighs less then 10,000 lbs. The requirements are different for heavier equipment. My Kabota dealer uses the same set up when delivering. Only difference is that he is using a flatbed truck instead of a trailer. The set up I have in the picture does not allow any forward, backward, upward or side motion. It is tied down at four points. The only issue here is if they need to be independent ties or not. I do not see anything in what you posted to make me believe that individual tie-downs are required in the case of the L3800. Please point out anything I might have missed.
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Your "tractor" is not tied down sir, your loader (an "attachment) is with one chain, and a chain is around the tires and over the 3PH arms. NOTHING is attaching the frame of the tractor to your trailer. Your bucket is not resting on the trailer deck-if your curl cylinders bleed off the front chain will loosen since the boom will lower, and nothing is holding the cutter down to the deck either.
Just because your Kubota dealer does it, does not make it correct, safe, or legal. In fact he is more at fault since he IS hauling commercially.
If you truly believe that machine and attachments will stay secured to your trailer in an emergency maneuver, or god forbid a rollover you sir are sadly mistaken. I am not trying to be the safety police here, but rather just trying to educate on what is safe (for you, others, and your valuable equipment) and legal.
Our hst4610 has two plates on the front with grab hooks
On framerail.
Rear we use 1/2" grab hooks and slip over rear
Loader frame. Rear chains crossed and ratchet
Type chain binders.
Nothing on bucket or hoe.
I would prefer implements lowered and chained
Too, but supervisor will have none of that.
Aparrently i dont know anything.
What crosses my mind in the event a crash
Happened is the probability of that tractor
Wiping the cab off the truck.
On framerail.
Rear we use 1/2" grab hooks and slip over rear
Loader frame. Rear chains crossed and ratchet
Type chain binders.
Nothing on bucket or hoe.
I would prefer implements lowered and chained
Too, but supervisor will have none of that.
Aparrently i dont know anything.
What crosses my mind in the event a crash
Happened is the probability of that tractor
Wiping the cab off the truck.
Tsafa, no offense, but I don't think that's the best way to chain your tractor. Looks like the loader bucket is not fully curled and not seated on the deck. I don't trust hydraulics in that application. Also looks like your chains are running right through the pinch point.
I don't see how you're holding the tractor from going forward on the trailer either. Probably the most important in my opinion.
I don't see how you're holding the tractor from going forward on the trailer either. Probably the most important in my opinion.
I don't see your tractor tied down via four points.
I see it tied down via two points, with chain in front, one chain in back.
If one chain breaks, or one point becomes untied, then you no longer have a secured tractor.
To be tied down via four points, the tractor needs to have one chain at each corner, each one independent of the other.
I see that others have already discussed the poor FEL tiedown job.
Good information, but like most things government, they are a little off based - well intentioned, but off based in the practical application in the real world.
Quote from the FMSCR - "• These tie downs must use the securement mounting points on the vehicle that have been designed for that purpose."
How many vehicles come with at least four designed tie down points, how many tractors have you seen with four designed tie down points that have been designed for that purpose? None of the L series have them, none of the Hondas, Chevrolet or other cars has four tie down points. Heck, even four wheel drive trucks only come with two tie down points in the front, none in the front. And I would add, is a tow hook legally the same as a "designed tie down point?"
The point is, the law specificity states tie down points that are DESIGNED for that purpose, not looping a chain around a frame or any other point. So the majority of us would be unable to pass that federal regulation if it is held to the actual wording of the law.
That means that on the L series, you can't use the drawbar as it not designed as a "tie down" nor the front brush guard or even looping a chain around the frame, as guess what, neither of those are "designed tie down points either".....
In fact, I have never observed a Kubota tractor with little stickers saying "designated tie down point" .... Hmmmm...... !
Given that, I guess it is up to each of us to use our own reasoning to secure the load, since there is no way to meet the federal requirements as spelled out in black and white. I normally use two 5k working load straps as I only go a few miles. Longer runs I would use four 5k working load straps, one on each corner. But, as stated in the FMCSR rules, I am still not legal as I have no designed tie down points on my L3200.
Food for thought.
David
Quote from the FMSCR - "• These tie downs must use the securement mounting points on the vehicle that have been designed for that purpose."
How many vehicles come with at least four designed tie down points, how many tractors have you seen with four designed tie down points that have been designed for that purpose? None of the L series have them, none of the Hondas, Chevrolet or other cars has four tie down points. Heck, even four wheel drive trucks only come with two tie down points in the front, none in the front. And I would add, is a tow hook legally the same as a "designed tie down point?"
The point is, the law specificity states tie down points that are DESIGNED for that purpose, not looping a chain around a frame or any other point. So the majority of us would be unable to pass that federal regulation if it is held to the actual wording of the law.
That means that on the L series, you can't use the drawbar as it not designed as a "tie down" nor the front brush guard or even looping a chain around the frame, as guess what, neither of those are "designed tie down points either".....
In fact, I have never observed a Kubota tractor with little stickers saying "designated tie down point" .... Hmmmm...... !
Given that, I guess it is up to each of us to use our own reasoning to secure the load, since there is no way to meet the federal requirements as spelled out in black and white. I normally use two 5k working load straps as I only go a few miles. Longer runs I would use four 5k working load straps, one on each corner. But, as stated in the FMCSR rules, I am still not legal as I have no designed tie down points on my L3200.
Food for thought.
David
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Most vehicles come from factory with some means
Of tie down point. Many of them are a keyhole
Slot in what is supposed to resemble a frame.
Some are brackets that are removed during
Pre delivery inspection.
The dealer should have some sort of
Reference manual for securing these machines
In the event they need to be secured for shipment.
Of tie down point. Many of them are a keyhole
Slot in what is supposed to resemble a frame.
Some are brackets that are removed during
Pre delivery inspection.
The dealer should have some sort of
Reference manual for securing these machines
In the event they need to be secured for shipment.
Guys, this isn't rocket science and nearly every DOT rule in existence is written so that it's impossible to get right so that they have probable cause for inspection or whatever other burr they have up their tushies.
Even with a 4 point tie down, in case of an accident, unless the trailer is made for a vehicle twice the weight of the tractor it's coming apart, over the top or whatever. Trailer accidents are rarely ever 'clean' and metal goes everywhere. If your truck comes to a sudden stop at 60 miles per hour, the 'weight' of the tractor against the tie down points is suddenly ten times the real weight. Unless you are using the chains from heck, it's coming off.
The chains are there to prevent movement under normal driving conditions, not accident ones. That is to avoid accidents caused by load shifting.
So if you like straps, chains, toggle binders or ratchet ones, two point, four, crossover, loopback, bubblegum, blessed from a priest, or whatever, there's really only one rule to follow:
There is a busload of kids down that road you are going to be driving on that are depending on you to be absolutely certain that load is staying put.
Tie it down with that in mind and you'll come up with something everyone can live with.
Even with a 4 point tie down, in case of an accident, unless the trailer is made for a vehicle twice the weight of the tractor it's coming apart, over the top or whatever. Trailer accidents are rarely ever 'clean' and metal goes everywhere. If your truck comes to a sudden stop at 60 miles per hour, the 'weight' of the tractor against the tie down points is suddenly ten times the real weight. Unless you are using the chains from heck, it's coming off.
The chains are there to prevent movement under normal driving conditions, not accident ones. That is to avoid accidents caused by load shifting.
So if you like straps, chains, toggle binders or ratchet ones, two point, four, crossover, loopback, bubblegum, blessed from a priest, or whatever, there's really only one rule to follow:
There is a busload of kids down that road you are going to be driving on that are depending on you to be absolutely certain that load is staying put.
Tie it down with that in mind and you'll come up with something everyone can live with.
Yes, cars can have shipping tie downs, but what good it is if they are all removed during the PDI? Or require a unavailable special tool to fit in a slot. Are those provided with a new car? Nope. So once a consumer takes ownership of said car, there are no tie points left.
So I still stand by my statement that on most cars it will be impossible to find tie down points, let alone four point tie downs as most shipping tie downs on the smaller cars only use a single rear from the factory.
Yet tow truck companies routinely have cars and light trucks on there flatbeds, chained or strapped however they can, I have NEVER known a tow company to wait for a dealership removed transit tie down / tool to show up unless it is a very expensive car. Would you leave your car on the side of the road and wait for a few days or more for a removed tie down bracket / tool to be shipped from the factory, let alone if the factory would even have one for say a 10 year old car?
Can I get a bracket or hook for my 2002 Oldsmobile Bravada? Well since that platform has been out of production since 2009, let alone Olds being gone since 2004, I seriously doubt it. And yes, there are NO tie down points in the front or rear.
How about the tractor that started this whole discussion, they come partially disassembled in a box, there are no tie down points to even remove in a PDI!
So, we can't follow the DOT regulations as per the letter of the law, all we can do is the best that we can do. Each of us are going to do they own best, but just make sure you have adequate tie downs for the load size, weight and expected speeds..... What is required at 30 mph is vastly different from a kinetic energy standpoint that at 60 mph!
David