L3800 runs then stalls

[saxon]

250 hours and will start and run then slowly quit. Weird but if it sits for a while, 1 hour, it will run longer before quittin. An immediate restart will have an immediate stalling after starting.
Good fuel flow to filter and clean filter. Clean aair filter and good suction at air filter when runnin.
Thank you
Oh, and yes I did bleed the fuel system using the valve on the fuel pump. Several times.

 

[old and tired]

Leaf in the fuel tank? floats up after a while but gets sucked down and covers the outlet....

Just guessing here.... So the "slowly quits" is like fuel starving???

Could also be algae in the tank doing the same thing, treat the fuel....

 

[Dave_eng]

Please look at the wiring to the engine stop solenoid and report back on the number of wires going to the solenoid.
I do not have any manuals for your tractor but the L4200 is shown by tractordata.com as following the L3800.
The L4200 has a "key stop timer relay" This setup has one wire going to the engine stop solenoid.
The L2800, L3400 has a completely different system.

If you have one wire going to the solenoid, this wire is sent power for a few seconds when the engine should be stopped because you turned the key off or a safety issue has arisen.

Should you have such a system you could try disconnecting the wire to the solenoid and use the tractor. Without power to the solenoid, the engine continues to run. This helps determine if you have a fuel supply issue or a safety switch issue.

Dave

 

[Jim L.]

Dave

Both L3800 manual and HST have a stop solenoid coil and key stop solenoid relay.

The stop solenoid coil has two wires: pull with Black/red stripe; hold with Black/blue stripe.

With connector disengaged, pull terminal is on the left and the hold terminal on the right. Resistance from terminal to body is pull terminal 0.375 ohms; resistance from hold terminal to body 15.6 ohms.

Best
Jim

 

[saxon]

The stop solenoid has two wires goin to it, both look black with red stripe.
I can hold on to the solenoid body while turning on the key switch and there is a solid click.

Jim, what do you mean by pull and hold in referring to the 2 wires?
Thank you sir

 

[Dave_eng]

Jim is describing a common system which has two coils inside the stop solenoid.
A strong coil (PULL IN) which is briefly powered to move the solenoid plunger and related linkage and then the operation is maintained by a weaker "hold" coil which uses less amps but has enough strength to hold the solenoid plunger and associated linkage in the position created by pull in coil.

Each coil will have its own circuit. If the hold circuit is not working, the pull in coil will get the engine started but then drop out of operation and if the hold circuit is not there to take over the engine stops.
Dave

 

[saxon]

Most infomative and understanding information.
I couldnt check the resistance of the coils because I couldnt get the connector loose, thought I was goin to break it. lol
I have confirmed good fuel flow ll the wy to the pump.
So I started the engine and did air purge.
The motor was runnin ok at idle for bout 10 minutes. Then I give it more throttle to 1200 RPM.
And bam the idle would go up and down consistently, but didnt stall.
This is drivin me nuts, I should have already had my garden planted.
Thanks all

 

[Dave_eng]

Try connecting a temp fuel supply directly to the injection pump and located so gravity will deliver the fuel.

Some have used a big mustard squeeze bottle for this.

The solenoid would not produce the uneven rev condition and the test suggested will identify if you have a fuel delivery issue.

Dave

 

[saxon]

Dave, I ws going to do your suggestion and when I removed the fuel line to the pump, fuel flowed out of the fuel hose like a river. There is another hose is goin to the air purge valve on the pump right next to the fuel supply hose.
I dont know what to do next. Is the pump the next thing to check?

 

[Jim L.]

saxon

While waiting for Dave's reply, a quick word on L3800 air purge.

Many posts on this forum about watching a Youtube video and wrenching fittings to purge air.

You do not want to do that on an L3800. It will purge using the knob. Just follow the operator's manual and it will work exactly as written.

Also best to not mess with the fuel pump without specific instructions from Dave. It would be helpful to him for you to post the hours on your injectors and if they have ever been serviced or replaced.

Jim

 

[saxon]

Thanks Jim,
The tractor is bout 8 years old, but only 253 hours.
I have never done anything to the motor except change the oil and fill it with fuel.
I have purged the system per the instructions in the owners manual.
I would like to have a service manual. Where is the best place to get one at a good price?

 

[Dave_eng]

Dave, I ws going to do your suggestion and when I removed the fuel line to the pump, fuel flowed out of the fuel hose like a river. There is another hose is goin to the air purge valve on the pump right next to the fuel supply hose.
I dont know what to do next. Is the pump the next thing to check?

I looked at the parts illustration for the L38002 HST fuel system.
Your tractor is equipped with a mechanical fuel lift pump.

Tractors have lift pumps because under certain operating conditions such as low fuel level in the tank and driving up slopes, gravity cannot keep the injection pump adequately supplied.

You have used the word "pump" in your posts but I would like to understand where you are removing a line and finding fuel gushing out.

What is the history of the fuel presently in your tractor. When was it bought and where?

Any chance of gasoline having gotten into the tank?

Dave

 

[saxon]

The fuel gushing out is from the hose coming from the filter to the fuel lift pump.
I understand what and where the fuel lift pump is from your explantion.
Today I completely drained the fuel tank. And have bought some fresh fuel and some Lucas fuel injector cleaner. Reckon I will pour that in in the morning and pray some more.
Now I know that I have 2 different pumps, thanks for tht information.
Is there a way to test the the pumps? If pouring in the fresh fuel and injector clener dont work, are the pumps next in line to focus on?

 

[Jim L.]

saxon

I would like to have a service manual. Where is the best place to get one at a good price?

Best price is free at kubotabooks.com, directory Tractor Owners Manuals, file L3200 WSM.pdf.

Any dealer can order a paper copy for you to buy. The L3200 and L3800 share the same WorkShop Manual.

I trust Dave on the troubleshooting. My comment would be that 250 hours over eight years suggests a lot of standing time. Not running fuel regularly could mean a chance of clogs due to algae or rust from water in the system. Another thought which has nothing to do with your concern at the moment is that the engine oil needs changing at least yearly regardless of the number of hours put on the machine. Not running the engine means that moisture is not baked out of the machine.

You mentioned that air is flowing so we can assume that no critters have taken up residence in the air path.

Jim

 

[saxon]

Your right Jim, time for a service maintenance PM.

 

[19thSF]

250 hours and will start and run then slowly quit. Weird but if it sits for a while, 1 hour, it will run longer before quittin. An immediate restart will have an immediate stalling after starting.
Good fuel flow to filter and clean filter. Clean aair filter and good suction at air filter when runnin.
Thank you
Oh, and yes I did bleed the fuel system using the valve on the fuel pump. Several times.

Check the fuel cap breathers. If air is not getting into the tank, a vacuum develops, and fuel can't get out. A long shot, but worth a couple of minutes of time to rule it out.

 

[saxon]

I did check that. Even took off the cap completely. Thanks

 

[saxon]

Well its better now.
I totally drained the fuel tank, filled up with fresh fuel, added a bottle of Lucas Deep Clean Fuel System Cleaner, 5.25 oz bottle - $7.50
Fired it up and it dont miss a beat.

Now I gotta fix the PTO grinding noise.

 

[Jim L.]

Well its better now.
I totally drained the fuel tank, filled up with fresh fuel, added a bottle of Lucas Deep Clean Fuel System Cleaner, 5.25 oz bottle - $7.50
Fired it up and it dont miss a beat.

Good news that it was simple.

Now I gotta fix the PTO grinding noise.

You might want to start a new thread. Would need to know if your L3800 is Manual or HST. Has hydraulic fluid been changed, when, and what fluid, both filters changed out when. Is fluid at proper level?

Any loads on the PTO from side to side, or up and down? 3-point implements that maybe could make side loads when turning or raising, lowering?

See the WSM section 3 for PTO manual and HST versions. Parts diagram D13500 shows shaft and bearing with the other parts to get an idea of what's in the housing.

 

[saxon]

Thank you Jim.
I did start another post, the tractor is HST.