L345DT Front Axle Leak

[prplfish]

Evidently my post was not accepted so here goes again.
I have a bad leak in the front left axle case on my L345DT. I purchased a new Oil Seal and installed it the same as the old seal. I was concerned for two reasons; why did a seal that was recently installed by the Kubota dealer start leaking so soon and why is the gap on the left side so much bigger than the right side. I thought the seal could have been installed upside down. I went to the dealer and talked to the parts manager, the service manager and a mechanic about which side of the oil seal is up. Nobody knew the answer. Does anybody know which way the seal is installed?

Thanks Mac

 

[ipz2222]

Hard to tell from the pictures. Look for a garter spring,, very small wound spring that wraps around one of the inner lips. That is usually the one that faces the fluid.

 

[prplfish]

If that's the case, both the dealer and I have installed it upside down.

 

[prplfish]

That may be the reason the gap is larger on the left side because one side of the seal is taller than the other side.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Something is not right!
I'm thinking you have more than the seal installed wrong, as I don't know how the seal would keep the case split and allow you to be able to install all the other parts properly.

 

[Daren Todd]

In about 90 percent of the cases the spring goes towards the oil. Is there a recess for the seal so set into? Is there a raised lip on one side?

Is the seal two pieces? Something is definitely not adding up

 

[prplfish]

The oil seal is the only part I removed and installed.

 

[prplfish]

I agree the spring should go toward the fluid. I installed the seal in the same way the dealer installed the leaking seal. After installing it and seeing the gap was not the same as the right side I got to thinking something isn't right. That's when I decided that the old leaking seal may have been installed upside down. I think I'll disassemble it and measure the depth of the groove in the top half and bottom half of the axle case. since the top half and bottom half of the seal are not the same height. It was my bad to think the dealer installed the seal in the correct orientation.

 

[rbargeron]

How much had the dealer taken apart when they replaced the seal? Is it possible the seal is right side up but something else in the stack was in the wrong order? Maybe the only way to solve it is take the whole shaft/housing stack apart and study all the fits as it goes back together.

Fir example, the parts drawing shows a feature toward the bottom of part 8 - does the seal really look like that?

 

[Tooljunkie]

That seal looks like its a two part design, the center is like a wear sleeve,perhaps the wear sleeve remained on shaft and another was installed on top? Grasping at straws here, but i have seen similar designed seals and inner sleeve seperates when seal is removed. Unless you are aware of this, it can be overlooked.

 

[Daren Todd]

That seal looks like its a two part design, the center is like a wear sleeve,perhaps the wear sleeve remained on shaft and another was installed on top? Grasping at straws here, but i have seen similar designed seals and inner sleeve seperates when seal is removed. Unless you are aware of this, it can be overlooked.

I was actually wondering the same thing. It looks similar to the rear axle seal I just replaced on mine.

 

[prplfish]

OK, I'm starting to realize a few things. The seal is a two piece seal so that the top and bottom can rotate with respect to each other. The two halves are fastened together with a metal ridge on one side that goes into a rubber lip on the other side. When you look at the seal it looks like one piece. Also all of the parts came out with the old seal so I didn't leave any parts inside. I really think the seal was installed upside down. I'm going to remove it today and measure the grove in the top half and bottom half of the axle case. I'll bet they are a different depth and it will be obvious which way the seal goes. I just didn't think about the possibility that the dealer installed the seal upside down. After talking to everyone at the dealership I now believe that they could put it in wrong.

 

[Daren Todd]

I just didn't think about the possibility that the dealer installed the seal upside down. After talking to everyone at the dealership I now believe that they could put it in wrong.

Just went to another location last month. They had a dealer rep come in and "train" the mechanics how to "properly" rebuild the units. I was sent there because after the rep left, they were having an extreme amount of failures. Happened to be my old boss running the new location.

First piece of equipment I tore down, the cause of the failure was obvious. The lip seals were in backwards Pulled all the guys into the shop, and had each one show me which direction the seals went. Each person showed me the wrong way The dealer rep showed them the wrong way to do it.

 

[Daren Todd]

Here's some pictures of the rear axle seal I replaced on my l1501.

Here's how it was shipped and came in the package.

Here's the other side.

Per the instructions in the shop manual. the spring side needed to be installed towards the oil.

The outer piece is a guard and sleeve for the axle. It also prevented crud from forcing into the seal.

Had to separate the two pieces.

Then install the two pieces. Each piece installed separately. The outer ring installed on the shaft, and the lip seal was installed into the case. Then you slid the shaft into the case.

The reason for the failure of the original seal was because it was installed as you see it in the first pic.

You may be dealing with a similar situation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[prplfish]

I believe i figured it out. I disassembled it this morning and measured the top pocket and the bottom pocket. Sure enough the top pocket was shallower than the top pocket. The seal was installed with the long side up and the short side down. The reason the top of the seal was scuffed and gouged is because it was rubbing on the internal "C" clip that was holding the upper bearing in place. Haven't reassembled it yet because I have more pressing things to do today but I did want to make those measurements and see if that was the problem. I'm feeling pretty good about it now.
Thanks for all the responses. It got me thinking in the right direction.

 

[prplfish]

Top pocket was shallower than the bottom pocket.

 

[007kubotaguy]

Hello
The original seals used in the L345DT were two seals the same facing each other.The new seal that you have is a one piece design. As you found it will come apart.The seal has two functions. One is to keep oil from transferring from the axle tube to the final drive.The seal also seals on the seal collar , item # 9 . I have seen these seals installed both ways , and work fine.If you separate the two halfs install the first half with the metal sleeve pointing down. Then install the other half in the bottom housing.They should be flush with the housing.I would also check the bushing in the knuckle support arm. The bushing is part # 37800-43890.Also check the pin the bushing ride on.Part # 37800-43920. If this bushing is loose it will take the seal out.The gap between the housing may be helped by removing the shims under the knuckle supports arm.How long did the other seal last? Do you have a front loader?
Hope this helps. Good Luck Lance

 

[prplfish]

I have two problems with your installation. The oil seal is longer from the center ridge to one side than the other side (see the picture). If I put the half with the metal sleeve in the top I am putting the long half of the seal into the shorter pocket (top of axle case) and I will be putting the short half into the deep pocket (bottom of axle case). This configuration smashes the oil seal into the "C" clip that is holding the upper bearing in the case. The second problem is that when I separate the two halves of the oil seal and press them together sometimes the metal ring slips into the rubber groove in the other half and sometimes it smashes the rubber groove and stays on top of that half.

 

[Jim Dandy]

It would look like some people took a lot of time out of there day to try and help you.You are the one with the problem.Not the great people trying to help you.
James

 

[prplfish]

First, if I offended you with my last response that was not my intent. I wanted to get more comments telling me why my thinking was wrong. Also, you have raised more questions for me. It looks like the bushing you refer to as part #37800-43890 is listed in my parts manual as #38630-4348-0 (part 9 in the axle case drawing) and is not present in my axle case assembly. I thought the collar integral to the new oil seal replaced that collar. Also, I can't find part #37800-43920 (pin) in my parts manual drawing or my assembly. Do you by chance have a drawing that shows these parts? Thanks, Mac