L3301 concrete rear tire weights

[Texasl3301]

Now that they are in, how tight can I torque them?

 

[Texasl3301]

Weighs about 250lb, loader put it on this base, ratchet straps pulled it in

 

[fried1765]

Now that they are in, how tight can I torque them?

Torque will depend on the quality of the eye bolts that you used.
They certainly do not look like grade eight.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

2 points to note:

#1 Would have better off using hardened / tempered bolts or all thread for the fasteners.
The hardware you used will stretch and break under any load.
As it is if you tighten them or gravity / bumps works them they are going to pull the threads on the bolt and the nut.
What size all thread did you use. they look very small?
#3 Careful of handling them off the eye bolts as they are not welded ends and they will simply open up.

 

[fried1765]

2 points to note:

#1 Would have better off using hardened / tempered bolts or all thread for the fasteners.
The hardware you used will stretch and break under any load.
As it is if you tighten them or gravity / bumps works them they are going to pull the threads on the bolt and the nut.
What size all thread did you use. they look very small?
#3 Careful of handling them off the eye bolts as they are not welded ends and they will simply open up.

Yup!
If there is enough thread exposed, double nuts might help.

 

[jimh406]

I'm not sure I get the reasoning. My guess is standard Ls don't have wheel weights available because Kubota doesn't want you to use them. Are you tires loaded, too?

I don't think you can really torque them to anything meaningful with eyebolts. Just tight with lock washers and maybe locktite.

 

[NCL4701]

While I tend to agree with the concerns expressed by some others, I also respect that those concerns have been addressed and that wasn’t your question.

In regard to your question about appropriate torque, there are a couple of concerns:

1) What torque is appropriate to properly tighten the fastener yet not over tighten it?
2) What is the maximum load on the concrete and hardware assembly created by torquing the fasteners before damaging the concrete or internal hardware?

Max (appropriate) torque would be the lesser of those two numbers.

For the answer to 1), a standard torque reference chart should answer that question. You just need the fastener size, strength rating (grade), and the other variables on the chart. Find your fastener and there’s the torque. Example: http://www.repairengineering.com/bolt-torque-chart.html

2) No clue. It’s a swag unless you have the skills to actually calculate all the variables required to figure it out.

Honestly, I might check the torque chart to make sure I didn’t way over torque them but past that, it’s get it tight, lock washers, and Loc-Tite to give it a fighting chance to stay on.

 

[pigdoc]

When I made concrete wheel weights for a garden tractor (12" rims) I did it basically the same way. But, instead of embedding the bolts in concrete, I embedded lengths of copper tubing that the mounting bolts could slip through and tighten against. I used four 1/2x8-inch Grade 5 bolts to mount them.

I also embedded a handle to use to assist mounting and dismounting the weights.

I used a plastic bucket for a form and assembled the tubing/bolts on the wheel so that everything was perfectly positioned before the pour. Bolts punched through the bottom of the plastic bucket, of course. I did not use any rebar.

-Paul

PS, I have encountered applications where a Grade 5 bolt will outperform a Grade 8 bolt. Grade 8 bolts can be brittle in some situations and fail. A Grade 5 can take a tension shock and stretch a bit without breaking. As long as you don't exceed the bolt's 'modulus of elasticity', it will retain its strength. Also, a shear load or a bending moment is probably as well accommodated by a Grade 5 as by a Grade 8. Where i noticed this most is bolts that secure an automotive transmission mount to its crossmember. YMMV

 

[fried1765]

I'm not sure I get the reasoning. My guess is standard Ls don't have wheel weights available because Kubota doesn't want you to use them. Are you tires loaded, too?

I don't think you can really torque them to anything meaningful with eyebolts. Just tight with lock washers and maybe locktite.

I very much doubt that Locktite will have any meaningful effect.
I suspect that it wlll be a metallurgy issue.
With stress over time, the soft eyebolt threads are likely to fail.

 

[jimh406]

I very much doubt that Locktite will have any meaningful effect.

Maybe you don't understand why they call it Locktite. That's ok. I didn't use to use it either. It doesn't prevent nuts from backing off. Whether the concrete holds up or not is a different issue.

I wouldn't have built concrete wheel weights, but that's beside the point. If I had, I would have put a piece of pipe etc to run a regular bolt through, but that's not where he is.

 

[Henro]

Well, as they say, the proof is in the pudding.

The naysayers may be correct (I would fall into that category as well) BUT you made them and installed them, so now you will use them and they may work for many years, or may fall off in a short time, due to the bolts breaking.

Nothing to lose by using them. It's not like if they would fall off a vehicle on the highway and possibly do great damage to others...

If you do have a problem with the bolts failing, it probably will not pose a danger to anyone, other than a bit of personal deflation...

I like your creativity!

 

[fried1765]

Maybe you don't understand why they call it Locktite. That's ok. I didn't use to use it either. It doesn't prevent nuts from backing off. Whether the concrete holds up or not is a different issue.

I wouldn't have built concrete wheel weights, but that's beside the point. If I had, I would have put a piece of pipe etc to run a regular bolt through, but that's not where he is.

I am 82 years old and DO understand Locktite.
The issue is NOT about the nuts "backing off".
Using even a quart of Locktite would not help one bit.
The issue is that the threads on a cheap quality eyebolt are not satisfactory to prevent thread stripping, and thus thread/ bolt failure.

 

[jimh406]

The issue is NOT about the nuts "backing off".

As an 82 year old, you should realize that we don't know what the entire set of issues are. It's not a good thing for the nuts to back off. With the vibration of a tractor, it's very possible.

In any case, OP asked about torquing the bolts. My post was how do deal with that problem, and it's valid.

I don't disagree that there aren't other problems with his design.

 

[fried1765]

The probl

As an 82 year old, you should realize that we don't know what the entire set of issues are. It's not a good thing for the nuts to back off. With the vibration of a tractor, it's very possible.

In any case, OP asked about torquing the bolts. My post was how do deal with that problem, and it's valid.

I don't disagree that there aren't other problems with his design.

em goes back to my strength of materials class.

As an 82 year old, you should realize that we don't know what the entire set of issues are. It's not a good thing for the nuts to back off. With the vibration of a tractor, it's very possible.

In any case, OP asked about torquing the bolts. My post was how do deal with that problem, and it's valid.

I don't disagree that there aren't other problems with his design.

Torquing bolts that are likely to fail is a bit confusing to me.

 

[jimh406]

Torquing bolts that are likely to fail is a bit confusing to me.

I agree.

Strength of Materials class was a good one for me, too.

 

[Texasl3301]

Lets see....
I spent 100$ total for two 250lb weights or I could have spend about 800$ for 180lbs of weight on each tire, 3 metal weights of 60lbs each is the manufacturers recommendation,
If it breaks and falls off not losing much or damaging anything out in a field. Tires are not filled.
The eye bolts were only to pull it out of the form and to giggle it to get the bolts into the rim,
It has three grade 5 bolts that are 12 inches into the concrete, these bolts cross through the triangle of metal strapping to keep them straight during the pouring process and prevent them from pulling out, I also added a few ounces of fiberglass to the mixture.
Each bolt is good for over 3 tons so they are not the weak link considering it is only holding 250lbs that is fitting snug against the rim, this is why I used the tire rim itself as the form.
I have a few hours driving it so far, tightening/testing every 10 minutes, after the first 20 minutes slack on the bolts stopped appearing, the bolts are listed as good for 70lbs of torque, I will probably settle for 40 so not to stress the concrete any more than needed. I was hoping for personal experience with the torque question but this seems to be an unusual project so I suspect not much out there.

I have been on a variety of boards for decades, it is always a pleasure to get lots of opinions, is much better than silence, even when its grumpy old men similar to me.

 

[fried1765]

Lets see....
I spent 100$ total for two 250lb weights or I could have spend about 800$ for 180lbs of weight on each tire, 3 metal weights of 60lbs each is the manufacturers recommendation,
If it breaks and falls off not losing much or damaging anything out in a field. Tires are not filled.
The eye bolts were only to pull it out of the form and to giggle it to get the bolts into the rim,
It has three grade 5 bolts that are 12 inches into the concrete, these bolts cross through the triangle of metal strapping to keep them straight during the pouring process and prevent them from pulling out, I also added a few ounces of fiberglass to the mixture.
Each bolt is good for over 3 tons so they are not the weak link considering it is only holding 250lbs that is fitting snug against the rim, this is why I used the tire rim itself as the form.
I have a few hours driving it so far, tightening/testing every 10 minutes, after the first 20 minutes slack on the bolts stopped appearing, the bolts are listed as good for 70lbs of torque, I will probably settle for 40 so not to stress the concrete any more than needed. I was hoping for personal experience with the torque question but this seems to be an unusual project so I suspect not much out there.

I have been on a variety of boards for decades, it is always a pleasure to get lots of opinions, is much better than silence, even when its grumpy old men similar to me.

I like the concept!
In spite of my critique, I am rooting for your long term success!

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Yes none of us want's it to fail for you, that's not why we bring things up.
Most are just suggestions take em or leave em!

 

[Vigo]

Well somebody already posted a link to a chart but basically it just comes down to the thread diameter and pitch with some wiggle for other factors.

But i will bring up what i think is a relevant anecdote. Sometimes lug nuts on cars do not get tightened adequately. How tight does something need to be to remove lash/clearance/slack? Not very! The difference in torque between using a fastener to 'make 2 things touch' and the actual torque spec, is largely so that the fastener STAYS torqued throughout all the dynamic loading. So that is one function of 'proper' torque, whatever the number may be.

But the other lug nut analogy is that when lug nuts do come loose and a wheel ends up falling off the vehicle in motion, the lug nuts usually don't just gradually spin themselves all the way off and fall off. What typically happens is that as the lugs become loose the wheel is allowed to 'wobble' and in doing so it actually flexes the studs back and forth repeatedly until the metal fatigues and the studs snap off with the loose nut still on them!

So you need to get the nuts tight enough to not let the assembly move while the wheel is spinning, and if it doesn't move the nuts shouldn't work themselves loose either. If you tighten the nuts as far as you're comfortable with and the weight still shifts in the wheel as it's spinning, you need to stabilize it some other way. If you wanted to check if the weight moves while the wheel is spinning you could do something like jam some playdough type stuff in some gaps between the weight and the wheel and squeeze it until it's touching both wheel and weight, and then spin the wheel and see if any of the playdoughs get 'loose'.

 

[Texasl3301]

2 points to note:

#1 Would have better off using hardened / tempered bolts or all thread for the fasteners.
The hardware you used will stretch and break under any load.
As it is if you tighten them or gravity / bumps works them they are going to pull the threads on the bolt and the nut.
What size all thread did you use. they look very small?
#3 Careful of handling them off the eye bolts as they are not welded ends and they will simply open up.

half inch bolts, I used a 3 ton floor jack to pull it out of the form and one of the eye bolts did open up an inch, I used duct tape on the rim to keep the concrete off of the rim metal, was shocked hot tight the concrete bonded to the tape and the tape to the metal, I know i used at lease 3 tons of force to pull it out.