L3250 Injector Related Issues

[J03bota]

D2Cat, yea your right - but at the time I was still bewildered at how pulling injectors could cause a power loss. Despite its negative effects it did help me diagnose my problem and answer that question.
N.I.Wolfman, I've seen references to the V2203 DI engine upgrade before. Boy would I love to do that.
For now I guess I will look into pulling the head. D2Cat, did you send out your head for cleaning? What would be a ballpark cost for a turned head?

BTW: I own the Kubota WSM for the Series: L2250, L2550, L2850 and my L3250. I bought it years ago through Messick, but as I'm going through it I realize that there are virtually no references to the actual L3250? Was that a mistake?? I use the L2850 (V1702-DI) 4WD as my reference. Hope I don't get burned by that.

Thank you.
Best regards,
- joe

 

[J03bota]

Do you guys have any idea where I can get the storage support stands for the loader bf550.

 

[D2Cat]

J03bota, not sure where you are located, UK maybe?

The shop I take heads to will not do a valve job until he magnafluxes the head. He does not want to do all the work only to find out it was a waste. Then guides, seals and grind valves. Very seldom does a Kubota head need seals and guides replaced is my experience, but if so I get them at Colemans Kubota Parts. Usually under $100. I have the head as clean as I can get it before I take to him.

Look at the head to see if anything seems to have been caused by a part wearing. You can set the head on the shop floor and tip it so the exhaust side is up and fill the ports with gasoline. See if any wetness appears at the valves overnight. Then flip the head over and do the intake side to see if the valves are not seating. Just something interesting to know, but if your taking it to a shop it doesn't really matter.

WHEN YOU REINSTALL THE HEAD GASKET REMEMBER TO HAVE THE OIL TUBE O-RING IN PLACE.

 

[D2Cat]

Do you guys have any idea where I can get the storage support stands for the loader bf550.

The support stands may be difficult to find.

I made a set for a smaller loader out of square tubing, a plate on the end that went to the ground, and a RR tie welded to the other end to fit into the loader.

 

[rbargeron]

........ I own the Kubota WSM for the Series: L2250, L2550, L2850 and my L3250. I bought it years ago through Messick, but as I'm going through it I realize that there are virtually no references to the actual L3250?.........

Hi Joe, I have WSM 60329-0 that covers L2250, L2550. L2850, L3250 and has extra tabs at the back for Implements, L2550GST, L2850GST and the L3250. The only unique L3250 engine info is cylinder bore dim's on page H-4 of the L3250 tab 60329-6, copy attached.

The BF550 stands are 5/8" square-stock "canes" 35" high with a 12" handle and a small square foot on the bottom.

Email me to get better resolution scans - these poor ones comply with the pdf files size limit.

Take care, Dick B

 

[J03bota]

FYI: I updated my profile. I live in New Hampshire on the MASS border, by the seacoast.

Thank you
- joe

 

[L.C. Gray]

Suspect possible of oil dilution?? I thought to myself maybe if the injectors were dribbling some of the fuel could be getting to the crankcase and diluting my oil and also causing some of my smoke problems.

Wouldn't happen that way... Ther'es not a direct path to the oil from the injectors. If they were dribbling that much you'd probably hydraulic the cylinder befor it got through the rings to the oil.

When a Diesel is "making oil" it is usually coming from the low pressure side of the pump through a bad seal around the pump's drive shaft leaking directly into the crank case.

An oil sample to the lab to check fuel dilution in the oil will tell you a lot.

 

[J03bota]

Look at the head to see if anything seems to have been caused by a part wearing. You can set the head on the shop floor and tip it so the exhaust side is up and fill the ports with gasoline. See if any wetness appears at the valves overnight. Then flip the head over and do the intake side to see if the valves are not seating. Just something interesting to know, but if your taking it to a shop it doesn't really matter.

WHEN YOU REINSTALL THE HEAD GASKET REMEMBER TO HAVE THE OIL TUBE O-RING IN PLACE.

*** Your info above is great ***
I would much prefer to clean the head and reinstall it. Maybe replace the valves etc... if I need to. I need to find a good video that shows how to clean up a head without damaging it,... and, like you said, how to know when to replace head parts and maybe a video showing a valve job.

I hope I didn't cause any further damage to the cylinder/pistons. I shut it down as soon as I realized what was happening. I would like to try cleaning up any noticeable debris from the pistons/cylinders then if things look reasonable reassemble the engine change out the oil and filter and live with some smoke and some compression loss until I have more time.

As you know the WSM is for a mechanic. It skips a lot of details. I'm thinking a good older diesel engine head and later block rebuild video(s) combined with the WSM and you and this forum should do it

The video(s) don't have to be free. Free can sometimes cost alot...
Very Best regards, Joe

 

[J03bota]

When a Diesel is "making oil" it is usually coming from the low pressure side of the pump through a bad seal around the pump's drive shaft leaking directly into the crank case.

An oil sample to the lab to check fuel dilution in the oil will tell you a lot.

yeah I guess never really understood that this makes a lot of sense. So there's only one way for a significant amount of fuel to get into the crankcase and that is through the fuel pump drive seal. that's great info. thank you very much. I am planning on taking the head off and having access to the fuel pump should be pretty easy

 

[D2Cat]

Before removing the head it's always a good idea to do a compression test. Then you know the condition of the rings while the engine is still together. Once the head is removed you can only remove the pistons to check rings. At that point you just as well replace them.

You can get a compression tester at Harbor Freight for $30 or so.

 

[J03bota]

rbargeron,
Hi Dick thank you for the information on the stands I guess I can get a welder to make me up a set I also sent you my email address

 

[J03bota]

Hi D2Cat. ordered it last week will likely have it before the weekend. Planning on using the glow plug adapter as you suggested. so the idea here is once you connect the meter to the cylinder crank the engine over without letting it start and then you simply measure the holding pressure and then repeat will the air manifold be in the way. I guess I'll find out soon enough.
Thank you
- joe

 

[J03bota]

well I finally received the compression tester last week talk about being late then over the weekend I took the air manifold and exhaust manifold off and measured the compression across all 4 cylinders through the glow plug opening I had to measure them cold since for the first time since I have owned this tractor I could not get it started All 4 cylinders read about 330 PSI with the junky tester unable to hold pressure. Not sure if these cold pressures are the cause of my power loss problems despite reading low I really did not expect them to read as high and as consistent as they did
unless you guys stear me in a different direction over the weekend I will recheck the valves and if all is well I am planning on pulling the head

 

[J03bota]

Okay got the head off poured fuel into the ports as suggested. the intake ports look pretty good but the exhaust ports started leaking fuel only after a few minutes took the valve off and was shocked as to how much carbon buildup there was on the exhaust valves
I took several measurements and so far all measurements are well within specs I measured the cylinder bores and they looked great.
Thank you for the bore reference specification info it really came in handy
I tried slipping a 2 thou feeler gauge between the piston rings and cylinder wall and would not fit
With my limited experience I am not sure what else I can do two test the block from the top view the liners and pistons look new??
So next weekend I guess I'll start cleaning the head and valves I have some pretty heavy-duty chemicals ready to go
Any sggestions or help is always greatly appreciated

 

[rbargeron]

With good findings in the head0off inspection and the 4 cylinders testing cold around 330 it certainly sounds like a healthy engine. Hard to know if the carbon deposits are bad enough to be affecting exhaust flow - I'd clean everything with wire brushes (go easy on solvents). Some shops blast clean engine heads with walnut shells - does a great job on valves & seats without grinding. If cleaning doesn't affect the power loss on warmup I'd go after fuel delivery, starting with tank venting. My L48 stumbled after a good workout - the fuel cap vent was clogged (the plastic tank would actually collapse from the suction).

Assuming you'll put on a new head gasket don't forget the o-ring around the oil passage (15221-33700). Only some dealers make sure to supply it with a new gasket.

 

[J03bota]

Hi Dick, great info. Thank you.
I'm glad I took the head off and glad to see the carbon build up because it will be a constant reminder to always warm up the tractor and not to put it away cold. Not to mention that I learned a lot though out this process.

That reminds me: need to check the thermostat while I have everything apart. Takes a long time to warm up.
I also purchased a block heater years ago and never installed it. Now would be a good time to learn how to install it.

I agree very happy to see good looking liners and pistons but it doesn't explain why the tractor puffs blue smoke?? I hope the rings were installed right because I would rather not touch the block.

The head gasket pulled off looking close to perfect outside of peeling sealant and the oil seal is toast.

I think your right about the fuel. When I started having compression issues I should have drained out the old fuel and refilled with fresh fuel. Never did that step. Still happy I pulled the head. I uploaded a JPG of the valves. The engine side (seat??) looks just as bad.

Thank you again.
best regards, joe

 

[rbargeron]

The valves show a high presence of oil getting into the combustion chambers and depositing on the exhaust valve stems. The rings are obviously not seating correctly - most often due to excess wear but sometimes a result of incorrect rebuild and fitting. It would be great if the original owner could describe the engine's history with detailed symptoms, the testing done, corrective measures taken, and measures deferred. Unfortunately the details aren't available so the only real answer to the smoking is a thorough inspection of all its current measurements and fits. I think oil temperature may be getting high after running because of exhaust blowing by the rings. It's possible a rebore and oversize rings are needed to make it right. Need to decide if the symptoms are bad enough to justify a deep dive. Best luck, Dick B.

 

[J03bota]

holy smokes I guess providing a picture was a good idea your diagnosis does explain why a fresh oil change doesn't seem to keep the engine quiet for very long. And I thought the buildup was just me running the tractor cold
Was hoping the feeler gauge results might have saved me from pulling the pistons. It did go pretty deep down the pistons probably hitting the last ring on All 4 pistons not that I know what I'm talking about. The Pistons do have some play in the liner around 1/32".
Need to learn more about pistons and rings
Thank you very very much Dick I really appreciate your info!!
I really don't have a problem pulling apart my engine I just wish I had someone with experience looking over my shoulder
If you didn't catch this and bring it to my attention I would have cleaned the head reinstalled everything then saw the blowing oil and likely get very discouraged.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

There is also the possibility that the valve, valve seats and seals are bad.

 

[RCW]

There is also the possibility that the valve, valve seats and seals are bad.

I had that issue with a small block Chevy as a kid....that was 40 years ago, but still thought about is when I saw your picture.

Would bad seats/seals would hit both the intake and exhaust valves equally, or there would at least be some build up on the intakes and more on the exhaust, due to the heat?

These intakes look clean - exhaust, not so much...

Just trying to learn as well, without highjacking his thread.